the cops here need better flashlights lol

[EMC2]

Thanks for the good information jorn. Yes posting, researching and or other on the internet realy sucks. I make many mistakes, have difficulty proof reading and spell checking. UV is close to the x-ray spectrum and the UV coming from a light is not filtered through the atmosphere so it may contain more UVB or UVC than UV from sun exposure. We must also remember that most power tests are at 1 meter and intensity goes up drastically via inverse square laws plue any amplification from glasses. The sup capsular plaque is essentially a cataract which is often associated with UV exposure. It should also be noted that police do not always use issued and/or stock equipment.

 

[TEEJ]

After the incident my eyes have serious issues that I never had before. The beam went through 300 power reading glasses. They were on the left and my left eye is much worse than my right even though it used to be better. I also get eye twitching too. .I never welded but I am thinking I experienced something similar to a welding accident. As far as the police go these were not ordinary cops. They jumped out of a black car wearing black suits did not identify themselves. When I was flashed I said wtf you do that for I am now blinded like a dear in headlights. They told me that they do that for their own protection. This light had an extension and was not typical issue. Not sure why an extension would be needed if it was an led. What ever it was it really messed me up.

I'm sorry, you were not supposed to be blinded, it was supposed to erase your memory. Sorry for the mistake.

 

[PhillyRube]

My agency issues the SL20XP and a Surefire 6P. The SLs aren't all that bad when charged, but a lot of them have nicad memory problems and don't hold a charge. I keep a couple in my desk so the guys can swap out when one goes **** up. Then I swap it out with Supply and get a reconditioned one. I have upgraded several with Terralux drop-ins and NiMh handmade battery packs. As far as the Surefires, I have gigged a couple guys who came in for work with a dead light on them. I ask why they don't have new batteries and they say they weren't issued...^%$#@! I finally got my CO to sign a requisition and now have a bag of CR123s in my desk.

As for me, I carry a Jetbeam BC40, Solarforce M8, a Tigerlight OC with terralux drop-in, in my pocket a Fenix P3D with aspheric lens, AND......in the bag in the back seat......my Maxabeam! Granted, it's a Gen 1, but hey! I'm using the money to upgrade my Road Glide!

 

[M@elstrom]

Even a heavily modded ROP mag, something totally impractical for cops to use, only puts out 1150 bulb lumens.

Blackbear flashlights are exactly that and their intended market is indeed LEO's and emergency services personnel (as well as the flash-a-holic), an upgraded mag-charger (philips 5761 bulb) can put out between 600~750 Lumens

 

[lightfooted]

As for me, I carry a Jetbeam BC40, Solarforce M8, a Tigerlight OC with terralux drop-in, in my pocket a Fenix P3D with aspheric lens, AND......in the bag in the back seat......my Maxabeam! Granted, it's a Gen 1, but hey! I'm using the money to upgrade my Road Glide!

A Tigerlight???!!! Very kewl...I remember when he was shopping them around initially, my cousin showed it to me.

 

[PhillyRube]

A Tigerlight???!!! Very kewl...I remember when he was shopping them around initially, my cousin showed it to me.

Stings good when used...heheheh!

 

[EMC2]

What is the policy and/or testing behind using the lights to blind and disorient people?

 

[SimulatedZero]

I imagine it would depend on the purpose, if the officer was making a traffic stop (or similar situation involving approaching someone) and he/she used the light to see the person and their surroundings better, not much would be thought of it. If the officer went around flashing people in the face for the fun of it, it would probably be considered a form of assault. Much the same way using any other non-lethal weapon without cause would be. Good luck trying to prove that the officer didn't have a good reason though. As most people here on CPF have noticed, flashlights are incredibly useful items that can be helpful in a plethora of situations.

 

[lightfooted]

What is the policy and/or testing behind using the lights to blind and disorient people?

There are none...as for testing, the only testing I have ever heard of is regarding special custom lights that are supposed to be replacing other non-lethal tools and many of those have had mixed results.

 

[CarpentryHero]

Was the light on before he got to you? Perhaps it was an hid light.
Depending on your perscription is may do a number on you.
As for welders flash, that usually goes away after a few days

 

[jorn]

As for welders flash, that usually goes away after a few days

And it takes a while to get it. Youre not getting a "sunburn" in seconds.

 

[fyrstormer]

After the incident my eyes have serious issues that I never had before. The beam went through 300 power reading glasses. They were on the left and my left eye is much worse than my right even though it used to be better. I also get eye twitching too. .I never welded but I am thinking I experienced something similar to a welding accident. As far as the police go these were not ordinary cops. They jumped out of a black car wearing black suits did not identify themselves. When I was flashed I said wtf you do that for I am now blinded like a dear in headlights. They told me that they do that for their own protection. This light had an extension and was not typical issue. Not sure why an extension would be needed if it was an led. What ever it was it really messed me up.

If a momentary flash of light caused all those problems, your eyes were not healthy in the first place.

 

[CarpentryHero]

If a momentary flash of light caused all those problems, your eyes were not healthy in the first place.

+1 I agree, even with bottlecap glasses. Only other thing i could think of would be a laser over a 100mw, but that wouldn't have appeared white so that's probably out too.

 

[TEEJ]

If a momentary flash of light caused all those problems, your eyes were not healthy in the first place.

LOL

That reminds me of a neighbor many years ago, a really stupid nasty lady who made everyone crazy with her unreasonable requests and demands, and inability to understand what anyone would tell her, etc.

One day, she was in a car accident, strangely, not found to be her fault, but the other driver's fault....and she was pretty banged up, including a head injury.

Well, her attorney sent her for examination, and it was found, in a nut shell, that "The accident rendered her stupid and unable to understand what others were trying to tell her, as well as altering her moods, so that she was perpetually bitter and angry".


So, luckily, she got a large settlement for sustaining all that brain damage, and was able to move away, never to bother us again. (The Lord works in mysterious ways?)



So, not that I don't feel for a person's pain and suffering, its just that there is a very real human tendency to attribute effects to events.

If there was no awareness of the problems before the event...its like it didn't exist before the event...pretty reasonable really. If "Something happens", and then, the problems are "brought to light", it is arch-typically associated with the event.

To complicate matters, a person may have NEVER known for example that they had an eardrum about to rupture, until a guy at a fund raiser used a megaphone to announce the brownies arriving at table #3, etc...and the ear drum ruptured.

A pregnant woman about to give birth might have her water break on the way to the hospital when she heard the announcer mention a flood in Indonesia...and insist that her water broke on the way to the hospital because she heard about the flood in Indonesia.

The ear drum might have ruptured in a traffic jam on the way home, the water might have been about to break anyway, and so forth...but the people who's eardrum's burst and who's water broke KNOW it was because the megaphone was too load and because of the Indonesian flood....and you will NEVER convince them otherwise, unless they are a LOT more open minded than your average person.


So, I don't think one flash will do what its been blamed for, but I do know that people's eye can slam shut so to speak if hit with a strong light...and that it does cause physical pain, and that pain is natures way of staying "STOP that!".


The lux ratings for hand-held lights are not even producing the lux considered normal exposure for being outside on a sunny day...so the odds that the light was more powerful than that is unlikely....but dedicated throwers, such as an Olight SR90 (Al large black flashlight...) could match direct sunlight, so whatever looking into the sun would do, is what those lights could do if they were able to produce in the 100,000 lux range...but..

... a thrower's beam can't be measured at as close a distance, as it will be LOWER too close...due to collimation/convergence of the beam needing some distance to happen. So, a light that has 100k lux at one meter will measure a lot less than that at point blank range....and is one of the reasons we might measure it at 5 meters, or even further away, to see the full Lux, back-calculated to the one meter standard for comparison/ultimate range projection purposes.


So, most cops want a floody light rather than a tight spot, if they are experienced with both, and if they are not ONLY using the light in a tactical shooting-scenario...as searching/FINDING people is a LOT easier with a flood beam that shows an entire warehouse, than a little circle of light you are sweeping around like looking through a paper towel tube at the same scene.

If a cop used a strong thrower, for a long time, aimed right back through your eyes, AND you LEFT THEM OPEN the whole time (Hard to DO)...then it was like looking at the sun for that time period...

And LOTS of people HAVE looked at the sun (See all the eclipse warnings...) and had a problem, but, most don't. Most look away or close their eyes because they can't help it. More damage is actually suffered when the people who did suffer symptoms actually used telescopes and binoculars to look at the sun, than with the naked eye...as that obviously magnified the effects.

If your glasses did the same thing as binoculars or a telescope, I'd be a little surprised, as the glass itself filters out much of the UV at least, as is supposed to be just replacing a lack of general ability to focus...in that the average eye glass lens is not really shaped like a magnifying glass...as that would only make things look larger, not clearer...and I don't remember success using eye glasses to pop ants on the sidewalk, whereas a magnifying glass was a veritable death ray.


So, I don't think this all justifies making cops have less capable lighting equipment. Training maybe on its uses, but, I think the lighting, especially on average, needs a HUGE boost, not a throttling down.







OK, I just checked - If I put my eyes RIGHT in front of the lens of a bright flashlight, it actually hurts LESS than a few feet away.

So, I have confirmed to myself at least, that a light with the required lux to be as bright as ordinary daylight, would have to be held far from the eyes to put enough lux on target to simulate it.

 

[MichaelW]

If a momentary flash of light caused all those problems, your eyes were not healthy in the first place.

That doesn't justify or excuse crimes committed by police, regardless if it is 'policy'.
Sue them personally. 42 USC Chapter 21 subchapter 1983. Police have no 'immunity'.

 

[TEEJ]

That doesn't justify or excuse crimes committed by police, regardless if it is 'policy'.
Sue them personally. 42 USC Chapter 21 subchapter 1983. Police have no 'immunity'.

Men in Black have immunity though.

 

[Ragnar66]

That doesn't justify or excuse crimes committed by police, regardless if it is 'policy'.
Sue them personally. 42 USC Chapter 21 subchapter 1983. Police have no 'immunity'.

Sue the cops for shining a flashlight?

 

[Ragnar66]

Next we will sue them for putting pedophiles in jail. *******s.

 

[TEEJ]

I suppose if it WERE a crime for an arresting officer to use force in an arrest, and shining a flashlight into the suspect's eyes was used as part of the subdue process, then a cop would not be allowed to use the primary technique of using their light to help incapacitate those they are either arresting, or considering arresting.

As far as I know, it is not a crime for a cop to use force, or a flashlight, to help him subdue a suspect. Therefore, no immunity is required in this regard, as it is only crimes that are addressed in that statute.

Otherwise, conceptually, every cop making an arrest where the subject fled, or resisted arrest, could be charged against the COP as assault, battery, etc....and it would then be only possible to arrest those who essentially turn themselves in.

If the police burst into a place for a bust, and had no idea whether the occupants were going to shoot at them, or put their hands up, etc...it would be risky to be too polite to said occupants while inquiring as to their individual intents.


On the other hand, there are search and seizure requirements...there does have to be just cause. NOT a trial, NOT a known outcome.....a field determination that there is just cause...a judgement call.

"Just cause" doesn't mean you KNOW they are guilty, just cause means you think that they MIGHT be guilty. Being wrong is not a crime. Not being able to support the judgement call can be though.


A cop is not expected to determine guilt or innocence, that's what the fair and speedy trial is for. That's why there are SUSPECTS in a crime, until after the trial.

That's why there IS a trial. You don't WANT to allow cops to be the judge and jury...just to bring the suspects in.

Its a dangerous job, and by its very nature, some people just don't WANT to be arrested, and, to prevent that, will kill or injure the officer trying to bring them in.

Officers owe it to their wives and children to come home after their shift, in one piece if possible. Departments don't want dead/wounded members either.

Protecting yourself from a suspect during an arrest is standard procedure. Cops are shot stopping people because a tail light was out, let alone during drug busts, etc.


So, some people have heart attacks when arrested, some shoot themselves, some people being chased crash, some people being handcuffed break their wrists in the struggle.

Some people bang their head on the edge of the squad car roof or door...and so forth. Being arrested can be dangerous...and, to me - a counter incentive to criminal activity.


I don't think there should be unnecessary use of force, but necessary is whatever it takes to not put the officers at risk. The suspect often dictates what the officers JUDGE to BE necessary. An adversarial suspect does tend to be viewed as adversarial, and, treated accordingly.

A cooperative suspect is also treated accordingly.

I think I'd rather have a bright light in my eyes so I can't which way to run away (If I was a bad guy...), than to just have my knees blown off (Just in case I was going to run), etc. A light is a very mild form of containment compared to being say Tasered, etc.


So, again, the cops should have the best lights available if possible, not worse lights.

 

[SimulatedZero]

That doesn't justify or excuse crimes committed by police, regardless if it is 'policy'.
Sue them personally. 42 USC Chapter 21 subchapter 1983. Police have no 'immunity'.

Yes, that makes perfect sense, I am going to sue you because I have a problem and I can't accept that I have that problem. My problem is quite clearly somebody else's fault and they should be made to pay. Seriously?... Let's say your cars engine had a leak and you never got it checked. All the oil leaked out and left the block nearly bone dry. One day you pull out into traffic and the guy you pulled in front of didn't see you. You noticed him coming towards you very fast, too fast. You floor the accelerator in an attempt to avoid the accident. But the strain on your engine is too much and the block blows, causing you to fly off the road into a power poll. That could have been avoided by getting the engine inspected and having preventative maintenance done before all of the oil leaked out. But, instead of being the fault of the person who did not take care of their car, it is the fault of the person who made them floor the accelerator.

There are several inconsistency's with this flashed by the flashlight story.
1. As you go about your day to day life you are exposed to far more powerful forms of lights. Primarily, sun light. There are times where people reflexively look at the sun, maybe you just glance at it when you get asked what time of day it is. Or maybe you happened to catch it when you looked at the sky. Everybody, at some point, catches the sun. It's very common when driving west on a road in the evening or east in the morning. You also catch the sun reflecting off of things like waxed cars, windows, polished metal, anything reflective. Each one of these exposures is quite powerful relative to that of a hand held flashlight.

2. The "officers" didn't identify themselves. That is a major inconsistency with police practice. Especially when making a stop, doubly especially when making a stop in plain clothes.

3. It was never said why they were making the stop. It's like they just popped out of there car to hit somebody in the face with this uber cool, ultra cloud devastating, arc light for funsies. Like when asked "Hey, why did you that!?" you get back "Lol, you mad bro?".

4. More of an observation than an inconsistency, most detectives (which would be the type of plains clothes officer matching the description) generally don't wear ominous, cliche, EASILY SPOTABLE, black suits. However sometimes federal agents do, and of course as Teej so eloquently suggested, the MIB do as well.

A fair amount of things just aren't adding up here. Also, some symptoms were not mentioned as apart of the problem until after they were pointed out. As in they would mostly prevent someone from participating in a forum such as this. But, it is quite possible that this happened and serious medical injuries ensued. I will say that, it could have happened. It's just that there are so many inconsistency's...