A sad but important lesson this week

[bwaites]

The truth is that this was a chain of unfortunate events that could have been interrupted positively many different times but that wasn't because life at all times is unpredictable.

My one question is why the authorities didn't lock into the area a lot faster, since they were known to be missing and the cell phone signal originated on the 26th is what eventually led to the families rescue. It would seem to me that the first thing I would do if I was in charge would be find the cell phone number for any cell phones and see if there had been any traffic or messages of any kind, and at least evaluate where the last signal originated!

I believe in the old adage, "stay with the vehicle, it's easier to find than you are", but after 7 days, I probably would have done the same thing trying to save my family. We'll always wonder why he didn't do what he said he was going to do, which was go back the way they came, and return to the car if he didn't find someone within a fixed time.

Never the less, it is tragic, and will only be made worthwhile if someone else doesn't commit the same kind of error, and unfortunately, those who NEED to pay attention seldom do!

Equipped to Survive is a great site, and one that we all really should spend some time checking out if you want to give yourself the best possible chance to survive something like this.

A sad tragedy for what appears to be an All-American family, my prayers go out to them.

Bill

 

[carbine15]

:candle:

my thoughts exactly. All you need in the woods is a lighter. Set the woods on fire to summon help. Firefighters will come!

 

[bfg9000]

I read it was the family that paid and asked for for the cell records search and the chartered helicopter that found the mom + kids.

They had two lighters. What they needed was a hatchet to build a bonfire in the middle of the road to signal and melt snow into water.

 

[bwaites]

They built fires, using at least 2 of the car tires, or that is what has been reported.

There probably was sufficient fuel for a fire, but no one had responded so they may have believed they were too isolated for anyone to find them or see the signal.

I'm not familiar enough with the area to know how much fuel for the fire was actually available, but I would normally agree, start the forest on fire if nothing else works!

BUT...the truth is that none of us was there, and I've found that judging someones performance is difficult if you aren't also responsible for judging ALL the variables!

 

[John N]

Equipped To Survive has (IMHO) some good suggestions for stuff to put together for an emergency kit.

They also have a decent discussion thread on this topic:

James Kim: Snowbound Vehicle Info and Analysis

While it isn't hitting the news much, there was also a very similar situation reported today which I think is very useful to read and contrast to the Kim story:

man survives nearly two weeks trapped in car

-john

 

[WNG]

I feel very bad for the wife and children. Sad story, perishing trying to find help to save his family.

I'm old school, still have a CB from my old days. If I am going on a road trip on my own, taking me into desolate areas, I pack it and my FRS radio along for the ride. An ignorant and ill-prepared urbanite will always think it's overkill to be prepared, and make smart-*** remarks. Heard my share.

 

[carbine15]

This is so sad. Seriously though, I'd set the whole WORLD on fire downwind of me. Every tree for a thousand acres would be ablaze. If I'm going out, I'm taking the woods with me! My signal you could see from space!

 

[Buffalohump]

Always a fascinating subject. I read up as much as I can on it, but every situation is different. It is very tricky to plan for every eventuality.

But if you're going where it's cold, take extra warm clothing/blankets.

And if you're going where its hot, take extra water. You can survive a long time if you're warm and well-watered.

Ever read Jack London's story To Build A Fire? Extreme cold is scary. I'm glad I live in a hot place...

 

[LowBat]

Here's a thought; what about carrying equipment on a search helicopter that would make it possible to communicate directly with a cell phone? Also set it so as soon as it flew within range of receiving the lost person's unique cellular ID signal, the pilot could receive an alert tone.

 

[Casual Flashlight User]

They say to always stay with your vehicle if lost...I don't know what I would do if my family's lives were at stake.

For those of you that are familiar with CNET's reviews, it was James Kim - their Senior Tech editor. He's in many of their video reviews.

Aye, well said - I don't have any kids, and although I know that you should stay with the vehicle I'm not sure if I could in that guys situation.

All in all, this is a very sad story.


CFU

 

[bfg9000]

He may well have tried to light a tree, though this area is actually a real rainforest and so wet this time of year that even lightning strikes tend to fizzle quickly rather than starting fires. And many firefighters have been killed by being unable to outrun fast moving forest fires in such densely wooded areas.

It is being reported that the two miles of footsteps he left in the snow on the road is what eventually led the privately chartered helicopter to find his family, so in a way he did manage to save them.

This has inspired me to toss a folding shovel, saw and hatchet into the car, even though I live in a large city. My quarter-mile long driveway does sometimes become impassable from fallen limbs so it could at least save me the walk to get tools.

 

[carbine15]

chainsaw.. you need a chainsaw.

 

[Lee1959]

With all due respect ... have you even thought this out? (sorry I'm a bit enraged to see this, and I've been dealing with other people today who are also rather ill-informed about this matter.)

With all due respect, I have thought it out, for a long time. I have lived in Michigan all my life. I was a Boy Scout thru Eagle, A troop leader along with my uncle, been a hunter for better than 35 years, camped in winter extensively, trained with Search and rescue units, ran a trap line, and simply practiced winter survival skills for close to 40 years.

I never intended to (nor do I believe I did) denigrate Mr Kim and his attempts at saving his family. He did a very decent job with what he had on hand. It was a heroic attempt that may have been aided with a proper survival kit.

Survival kits need not be huge unwieldly things, but they should provide a minimum of things, insulation for warmth, means to create shelter (in this case not needed the car provided it), means to provide water, fire, and communication/signaling.

A few food items is what helped keep them going (along with mother Kati, nursing the kids) during at time, but a week for a family of 4 is a lot of supplies. I think you'd empty out such a kit pretty quickly.

Your comment about food. The human being can live far longer than a week without food. It is however not comfortable, and is more important to the children and the nursing mother. A relatively small amount of high caloric foods could easily be packed, not enough to be comfortable for a family of 4 for a week, but enough to sustain minimum needs.

Water is much more important, especially in winter where extremely dry air saps moisture from the body fast. Snow could be melted for water, with fire, and with dark colored containers in sunlight.

A survival kit along with winter survival signaling training may have helped tremendously, like everyone says hindsight is 20/20. But is it not better to learn from a situation and what worked and what did not?

Travel in winter, thru wilderness areas especially, but in any distance, needs a bit of planning before hand. Route information, leaving and arriving times should be given to a reliable person who will check on you.

If you are late for any length of time the authorities will have a route to start searching, and start in a more reasonable time frame. I do not know if this occured in this case, but it should be standard procedure always.

So yes, I have indeed thought it out. Have you? Or would you let his sacrifice be not even a help to others who may be equally or worse prepared. Sorry if it is an open wound, and if it offends you, such was not the intent.

 

[Brighteyez]

They were 'lost' for 3-4 days before they were even noticed missing. Don't know when the missing person's report was filed with SFPD, but it would have been at some point after 11/28. The information then had to be conveyed to the local authorities in Oregon. Seems that it became publically broadcast on the morning of December 1.

I'm sure more details will become available in the days to come, though it may not put an end to the speculation. It's too late for any would've, should've, could've's. The only thing that can be done now is to try and recover any details that may be useful for future searches, determine cause of death, and to allow the victim's family and friends to mourn.

If you are late for any length of time the authorities will have a route to start searching, and start in a more reasonable time frame. I do not know if this occured in this case, but it should be standard procedure always.

 

[twentysixtwo]

Tragic story and it's hard not to Monday morning quarterback.

After a week, it's hard to say I'd stay put. All the same, there wasn't a single mistake that killed him, it was the cumulative effect of numerous mistakes.

 

[Brighteyez]

Yeah, I think a lot of people weren't aware that they had already been out there for close to a week, and much of the snow that they were caught in had melted. Were it not for the hunch of a local Burger King owner and his self-initiated search efforts using his own private helicopter, the family too may also have perished. He was the one who alerted the helicopters from Carson.

Tragic story and it's hard not to Monday morning quarterback.

After a week, it's hard to say I'd stay put. All the same, there wasn't a single mistake that killed him, it was the cumulative effect of numerous mistakes.

 

[David_Campen]

Travel in winter, thru wilderness areas especially, but in any distance, needs a bit of planning before hand. Route information, leaving and arriving times should be given to a reliable person who will check on you.

The thing with mountainous areas such as the West Coast is that a wrong turn can quickly take you from driving on a main highway in temperate weather to either a desert or blizzard. This is sort of what happened in this case.

The family had planned to take a main road over the mountains but seemingly passed that turnoff and then decided to take another route not realizing that this would lead them into mountain wilderness/back roads. This seems to happen with some regularity - unsuspecting, out of area visitors getting caught on these mountain backroads in the first snow of the season. Some better, more strongly worded warning signs at the approaches to these routes would seem a good idea.

As someone else mentioned, A PLB (Personal Locating Beacon) the land equivalent of an EPIRB (Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon) is a very valuable peice of survival gear. They are very expensive though - about $650.

 

[Brighteyez]

Apparently it's a pretty common mistake for that area. The main road looks like a narrow backroad, and the logging road that they ended up on is a nice wide road. Can't say that many of us wouldn't have made the same mistake.

The thing with mountainous areas such as the West Coast is that a wrong turn can quickly take you from driving on a main highway in temperate weather to either a desert or blizzard. This is sort of what happened in this case.

 

[Thujone]

I want to first say the family is in my prayers and this man is a modern day hero caring for his family the best he could.

Next I want to ask because I am not sure I would have taken the best action in this case but if you are in a situation where you are forced to leave the vehicle wouldn't it be the best course of action to stick with a clear path (such as the road they came in on) , let your family know the path you plan to travel, then under no circumstance deviate from that plan? It seems that by deviating from the road he ended up circling his family and sacrificing his life. It just tears at your heart strings to think that some simple actions could have saved his life.

 

[David_Campen]

if you are in a situation where you are forced to leave the vehicle wouldn't it be the best course of action to stick with a clear path (such as the road they came in on)

Yes, if you know where you are and where you are going. The problem is that they were lost. In fact, the logging road they ended up on may have been after they had turned around and were trying to retrace their path only to make a wrong turn onto the logging road. I have had the same thing happen to me in that area - on the way out make a wrong turn onto a side rode that I hadn't noticed on the way in. We may never know why he left the roads and headed into the river drainage - maybe he felt that rather than wondering lost on the back roads it would be better to try to travel in a straight line.