Backup lamp options
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I have some cheap auto store fog lights under the bed of my truck that point down and to the side, and illuminate the pavement behind the rear wheels. You wouldn't think it does much, but it helps quite a bit. No chance of glare, they are tucked up underneath the body. They help see lines backing into parking spots, and nearby objects. I recently disconnected them, and it's a noticeable absence.
We used to have an odd driveway I had to back into with a nasty retaining wall. That was what originally brought up the idea.
Hamilton Felix
Enlightened
I can certainly agree with that. Many times, out in the brush with my old 4x4 International, I've needed light to the side. Sometimes I'd aim a spotlight backward (one mounted at the top of each A pillar), but that put an aircraft landing light right next to my face. The light hidden under the bed is a great approach.
Now, I went and signed up at Photobucket. Let's see if I have this image posting right.
Did clicking the image icon, then pasting in that Photobucket jpg URL do it?
Hmm... doesn't look like it from here.
Oh well, I guess I can always just put in the location of the image as a link:
http://s1051.photobucket.com/albums/s425/HamiltonFelix/Backup Lights/?action=view¤t=921andR118.jpg
Frankly, for the small difference, I'm not sold on the cost of the Raybrig R118 upgrade. I think aux. lights will make the difference.
Now, I went and signed up at Photobucket. Let's see if I have this image posting right.
Did clicking the image icon, then pasting in that Photobucket jpg URL do it?
Hmm... doesn't look like it from here.
Oh well, I guess I can always just put in the location of the image as a link:
http://s1051.photobucket.com/albums/s425/HamiltonFelix/Backup Lights/?action=view¤t=921andR118.jpg
Frankly, for the small difference, I'm not sold on the cost of the Raybrig R118 upgrade. I think aux. lights will make the difference.
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Nope. Keep trying. I think you probably meant http://s1051.photobucket.com/albums/s425/HamiltonFelix/Backup Lights/?start=all for a link, or for a direct image emplacement:
I had that system in my 55 Buick special too. It wasn't like it roared to life at full throttle though, you just backed out of the peddle when it started, though I see your point.
While it may not be a GOOD practice to start the car with the brakes applies, I certainly don't see that it's a bad one. I usually pull the brake on my motorcycle while starting or push the brake on a manual transmission car, sometimes that habit carries over.
I purchased and installed 2 of the Feit Electric zenon 921X bulbs from home depot today in the CHMSL, package promises 3000 hours.......initial impression when compared side by side with the old 921 bulb is maybe the 921x is very slightly brighter or whiter, but overall almost identical looking......time will tell if they last longer,which is the real reason I purchased them.
My apologies in advance for resurecting an old thread, but I ran across this as a result of a google search on aux backup lights and am a bit confused.
Scheinwerfermann - you pointed out in earlier posts that adding auxiliary lights is of questionable legality, however, in the post below, you mention that there are ways to do it legally.
From this, I'm taking that as long as the light is low to the ground and projects its beam below a certain plane, then it is legal to have - is that correct?
I'm looking at using these lights (Blazer UW3534) which cast a flat, wide beam, and from my tests, if properly positioned, don't interfere with the tail/stop lights being discernible, but I would like your input as well.
See Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images. Please host on an image site, Imageshack or similar and repost – Thanks Norm
Scheinwerfermann - you pointed out in earlier posts that adding auxiliary lights is of questionable legality, however, in the post below, you mention that there are ways to do it legally.
From this, I'm taking that as long as the light is low to the ground and projects its beam below a certain plane, then it is legal to have - is that correct?
I'm looking at using these lights (Blazer UW3534) which cast a flat, wide beam, and from my tests, if properly positioned, don't interfere with the tail/stop lights being discernible, but I would like your input as well.
See Rule #3 Do not Hot Link images. Please host on an image site, Imageshack or similar and repost – Thanks Norm
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Regarding reverse lights, what is the best way to do it if you really need BRIGHT reverse lights for safety, since driving where you can't see is obviously dangerous, but you don't want to cause an unsafe situation when you're just backing out of a parking place in normal, everyday, civilized society?
I understand the legal stance, which seems to be totally concerned with the blinding and confusing of drivers coming up behind you. My problem is that I do actually need illumination, sometimes. I do a fair amount of work at night, in places that aren't lit up. Most of this is technically "off-road"--feeding cattle and stuff like that.
My solution for a number of years has been to replace the round grommet-mounted lights in the truck's flatbed with old non-halogen PAR36 sealed beams left over from converting tractors to halogens. Interestingly, they will pop right into the same grommet as the regular reverse lights. This gives excellent illumination, and I've never thought about the possible safety implications. The legality is not something I ever fretted about. I'm probably breaking some law or another most of the time anyway......
So, my point? Should I wire up those reverse lights to their own switch, and run a normal, puny reverse light for normal use? Should that switch be wire downstream of the reverse light to keep me from accidentally leaving it switched on while driving down the road? Is there some clever way to address this that I'm not seeing?
I understand the legal stance, which seems to be totally concerned with the blinding and confusing of drivers coming up behind you. My problem is that I do actually need illumination, sometimes. I do a fair amount of work at night, in places that aren't lit up. Most of this is technically "off-road"--feeding cattle and stuff like that.
My solution for a number of years has been to replace the round grommet-mounted lights in the truck's flatbed with old non-halogen PAR36 sealed beams left over from converting tractors to halogens. Interestingly, they will pop right into the same grommet as the regular reverse lights. This gives excellent illumination, and I've never thought about the possible safety implications. The legality is not something I ever fretted about. I'm probably breaking some law or another most of the time anyway......
So, my point? Should I wire up those reverse lights to their own switch, and run a normal, puny reverse light for normal use? Should that switch be wire downstream of the reverse light to keep me from accidentally leaving it switched on while driving down the road? Is there some clever way to address this that I'm not seeing?
Set up your aux reversing lamps with a switch that allows them to be switched on if (and only if) the vehicle's original reverse lamps are on, and once the vehicle is shifted out of Reverse they'll switch off and remain off until the next time they are deliberately switched on. This isn't too hard to do with a momentary-contact switch and a latching relay (like the kind used on rear windshield defoggers). You can even get deluxe about it and put in a delay-release relay in the circuit, with its delay set to (say) 15 seconds, so if you're maneuvering back and forth you won't have to keep hitting the switch again and again but the lights will still automatically kick off 15 seconds after you've shifted out of Reverse. And if you wanted to get really fancy, you could put in an override circuit that would also allow them to be used at will as work lights, as long as the parking brake is applied. None of the circuitry involved is terribly complicated.
Those work, but they draw a lot of current and you can do a lot better these days. What to use really depends on how much money you want to put into it and how much of an improvement in seeing you need back there.
Those are cute. Useless toys if we're trying to see forward in fog, but for reverse application use 35w H3 bulbs instead of 55w, and they'll probably be helpful and not problematic. Make sure you wire them up with appropriate wire and probably a relay; don't just tap them into the existing wiring or you'll cause an overload.
Vishvamata
Newly Enlightened
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Re: 921 lamp 25W substitute
Short Answer: [Rule 11 violation removed] Long Answer............I am an engineering litigator. Let us review the legal questions with an objective mature perspective.1. The forum rules actually state: "...you will not post any messages that are ... violative of any laws." That literally means a post violates the forum rules only when the language of the post itself violates a law of the jurisdiction which governs (typically the place of posting and the place of hosting). The moderator would do well to accept that the forum creator said what they meant and meant what they said -- no more and no less.2. To suggest that the forum rule prohibits a discussion -- of whether something is violative of a law, someplace, somehow -- itself is a blatant violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constiotution. E.g., discussing a V rated automobile tire does not violate any law, despite the fact that no public highway in the U.S. has a 149 MPH posted speed limit.3. The laws which govern use of motor vehicles in the U.S. recognize many classes of use, including --(a) public highway (passenger vehicle on public road);(b) public off-road (e.g., BLM);(c) special permit highway (e.g., wide/long load);(d) heavy vehicle highway (e.g. truck);(e) farm vehicle highway (e.g. tractor with high power back lights);(f) private road (e.g. driveway, industrial site, warehouse, racetrack);(g) private off-road (e.g. ski resort sno-cat).CONCLUSION -- discussion concerning the use of a high power back light, or substitute for a 921 bulb in another application, is valuable and well serves the public interest in lawful use under several of the motor vehicle classes enumerated above. My above identification of [Rule 11 violation removed] the W2.1x9.5d base of a 921 bulb, plainly assists a multitude of internet researchers in affecting more efficient solutions to certain transportation or other engineering problems which they may face.
Short Answer: [Rule 11 violation removed] Long Answer............I am an engineering litigator. Let us review the legal questions with an objective mature perspective.1. The forum rules actually state: "...you will not post any messages that are ... violative of any laws." That literally means a post violates the forum rules only when the language of the post itself violates a law of the jurisdiction which governs (typically the place of posting and the place of hosting). The moderator would do well to accept that the forum creator said what they meant and meant what they said -- no more and no less.2. To suggest that the forum rule prohibits a discussion -- of whether something is violative of a law, someplace, somehow -- itself is a blatant violation of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constiotution. E.g., discussing a V rated automobile tire does not violate any law, despite the fact that no public highway in the U.S. has a 149 MPH posted speed limit.3. The laws which govern use of motor vehicles in the U.S. recognize many classes of use, including --(a) public highway (passenger vehicle on public road);(b) public off-road (e.g., BLM);(c) special permit highway (e.g., wide/long load);(d) heavy vehicle highway (e.g. truck);(e) farm vehicle highway (e.g. tractor with high power back lights);(f) private road (e.g. driveway, industrial site, warehouse, racetrack);(g) private off-road (e.g. ski resort sno-cat).CONCLUSION -- discussion concerning the use of a high power back light, or substitute for a 921 bulb in another application, is valuable and well serves the public interest in lawful use under several of the motor vehicle classes enumerated above. My above identification of [Rule 11 violation removed] the W2.1x9.5d base of a 921 bulb, plainly assists a multitude of internet researchers in affecting more efficient solutions to certain transportation or other engineering problems which they may face.
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AnAppleSnail
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: 921 lamp 25W substitute
Did you know some country clubs are able to forbid entry? Also, without extensive legal struggles, a contract can restrict actions beyond the laws. For example, AT&T can eventually have you imprisoned for free speech - Namely, that of not paying your phone bill. Agreements between organizations have modified behavior beyond the statutes of laws. Contracts like NDAs (With which you must be familiar) also restrict Free Speech because of an agreement between parties.
This is not a good conclusion. "You agree, through your use of this BB, that you will not post any material which is illegal or which promotes activity that is illegal or could reasonably be foreseen to threaten any person's safety."
In most of the civilized world, it is UNSAFE and illegal to modify safety lamps so that they are inoperative by the laws of that region. All civilized regions have laws describing the minimum and maximum output of a lamp ad nauseam. Surely putting a ceramic-potted bulb that might melt a lamp housing is higher output than intended. I will admit I can't load the datasheet in this country to check the filament position, but that is probably different enough to cause different problems in addition to dangerously, illegally excessive output.
Installing an overbright lamp, or any lamp that can easily damage a properly-installed lamp socket, is illegal and unsafe.
As an engineer, you must know about the varying influences of the LAWS, REGULATIONS, and RESPONSIBILITIES of being an engineer. There are times when you must break one or more of these. I hope you always follow your responsibilities as an engineer to ensure that systems are safe. Do you?
Welcome! It's good to have you here. We welcome most. However, the forum has certain rules that are more restrictive than the laws. This is common practice.
The current trend among content hosters is to brace for a coming application of laws in the place of posting, hosting, and viewing. But I am not a lawyer.
Did you know some country clubs are able to forbid entry? Also, without extensive legal struggles, a contract can restrict actions beyond the laws. For example, AT&T can eventually have you imprisoned for free speech - Namely, that of not paying your phone bill. Agreements between organizations have modified behavior beyond the statutes of laws. Contracts like NDAs (With which you must be familiar) also restrict Free Speech because of an agreement between parties.
This is not a good conclusion. "You agree, through your use of this BB, that you will not post any material which is illegal or which promotes activity that is illegal or could reasonably be foreseen to threaten any person's safety."
In most of the civilized world, it is UNSAFE and illegal to modify safety lamps so that they are inoperative by the laws of that region. All civilized regions have laws describing the minimum and maximum output of a lamp ad nauseam. Surely putting a ceramic-potted bulb that might melt a lamp housing is higher output than intended. I will admit I can't load the datasheet in this country to check the filament position, but that is probably different enough to cause different problems in addition to dangerously, illegally excessive output.
Installing an overbright lamp, or any lamp that can easily damage a properly-installed lamp socket, is illegal and unsafe.
As an engineer, you must know about the varying influences of the LAWS, REGULATIONS, and RESPONSIBILITIES of being an engineer. There are times when you must break one or more of these. I hope you always follow your responsibilities as an engineer to ensure that systems are safe. Do you?
Re: 921 lamp 25W substitute
That's OK; we all have to make a living somehow. I'm a little surprised you were able to get to (and through) law school thinking an ellipsis is made of twelve periods, though.
Yes, let's. The relevant rule is #11, which prohibits discussion of, inter alia, activity that is illegal or could reasonably be foreseen to threaten any person's safety. The modification you recommended is practically guaranteed to pose a safety hazard not only to the vehicle and its owner, but also to those drivers behind the vehicle who would be exposed to unsafe levels of glare. That means your poorly-informed suggestion violates rule 11, and that means we won't be discussing it here (though if we were discussing it here, someone would come along to point out that the bulb you suggested has a focal length that doesn't come close to matching any automotive bulbs, making the one you suggested useless in an automotive lamp even if the heat and power issues didn't exist, which they do).
Most of the rest of your little courtroom-drama roleplay babble doesn't merit discussion but you seem to completely lack even a basic working understanding of tenet, pivotal in this discussion, of the US National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966.
Oh, and this bit of bluster does merit special mention:
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution forbids the U.S. Government from burdening or hindering U.S. citizens' freedom of speech. It does not preempt the rules of an internet forum.
But you knew that, right...counsellor? They did teach you that in law school, didn't they, Mister Esquire?
You agreed to follow the rules when you signed up to participate here. Your participation is contingent on your following the rules. They are not open to interpretation by you. You have two choices: Follow the rules without armchair-lawyer backtalk, or leave. Those are your only two choices.
That's OK; we all have to make a living somehow. I'm a little surprised you were able to get to (and through) law school thinking an ellipsis is made of twelve periods, though.
Yes, let's. The relevant rule is #11, which prohibits discussion of, inter alia, activity that is illegal or could reasonably be foreseen to threaten any person's safety. The modification you recommended is practically guaranteed to pose a safety hazard not only to the vehicle and its owner, but also to those drivers behind the vehicle who would be exposed to unsafe levels of glare. That means your poorly-informed suggestion violates rule 11, and that means we won't be discussing it here (though if we were discussing it here, someone would come along to point out that the bulb you suggested has a focal length that doesn't come close to matching any automotive bulbs, making the one you suggested useless in an automotive lamp even if the heat and power issues didn't exist, which they do).
Most of the rest of your little courtroom-drama roleplay babble doesn't merit discussion but you seem to completely lack even a basic working understanding of tenet, pivotal in this discussion, of the US National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966.
Oh, and this bit of bluster does merit special mention:
The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution forbids the U.S. Government from burdening or hindering U.S. citizens' freedom of speech. It does not preempt the rules of an internet forum.
But you knew that, right...counsellor? They did teach you that in law school, didn't they, Mister Esquire?
You agreed to follow the rules when you signed up to participate here. Your participation is contingent on your following the rules. They are not open to interpretation by you. You have two choices: Follow the rules without armchair-lawyer backtalk, or leave. Those are your only two choices.
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Re: 921 lamp 25W substitute
As happened last year to another poster, I ended up reading through this thread because of the results of a Google search regarding type 921X lumens. I hope no one minds if I necro this thread.
I wanted to throw my hat in the ring for this slightly off-topic item regarding applying the brakes when starting the vehicle. The fact is that vehicles equipped with push-button start DO require the brakes to be applied before they will start (at least the three that I have been in ... Nissan Sentra, GMC Terrain and Cadillac XLR). Besides that, I find it odd that anyone would suggest it's bad form to have the brakes applied when starting any vehicle ... I recall being told to do that during my driver's education training course, before push-button start even existed (seems like an eternity ago now)
Heck, even with my '85 Firebird and '86 Caprice (both had carbs) I would start with my left foot on the brake ...
I very much appreciate the emphasis this forum puts on staying legal.
-Virgil said:
As happened last year to another poster, I ended up reading through this thread because of the results of a Google search regarding type 921X lumens. I hope no one minds if I necro this thread.
I wanted to throw my hat in the ring for this slightly off-topic item regarding applying the brakes when starting the vehicle. The fact is that vehicles equipped with push-button start DO require the brakes to be applied before they will start (at least the three that I have been in ... Nissan Sentra, GMC Terrain and Cadillac XLR). Besides that, I find it odd that anyone would suggest it's bad form to have the brakes applied when starting any vehicle ... I recall being told to do that during my driver's education training course, before push-button start even existed (seems like an eternity ago now)
Heck, even with my '85 Firebird and '86 Caprice (both had carbs) I would start with my left foot on the brake ...
I very much appreciate the emphasis this forum puts on staying legal.
Alaric Darconville
Flashlight Enthusiast
Re: 921 lamp 25W substitute
Welcome to the CandlePowerForums!
I take it it's a safety feature, so that the engine isn't started without the driver in the seat, because the push-button start vehicles typically just 'listen' for the key fob in the vicinity. Maybe like you're out checking the oil and your passenger "pranks" you or something. I don't like it myself, though, for the simple reason that it burns out stop lamps faster.
Cars with automatic transmissions now require the foot to be on the brake to get out of Park, and require you to be in Park or Neutral to crank the engine- it's not very likely you'll be in gear while cranking. There's also the parking brake.
Also, it's just that extra drag on the battery while trying to start the car
Welcome to the CandlePowerForums!
Toyota Prius, too.
I take it it's a safety feature, so that the engine isn't started without the driver in the seat, because the push-button start vehicles typically just 'listen' for the key fob in the vicinity. Maybe like you're out checking the oil and your passenger "pranks" you or something. I don't like it myself, though, for the simple reason that it burns out stop lamps faster.
Cars with automatic transmissions now require the foot to be on the brake to get out of Park, and require you to be in Park or Neutral to crank the engine- it's not very likely you'll be in gear while cranking. There's also the parking brake.
Also, it's just that extra drag on the battery while trying to start the car
I very recently rented a Ford Edge that required you to press the brake pedal before the car would start. It had no ignition "key", just the fob which needed to be in the car and a start button on the dash. Their Quick Start Guide highlights this feature under item 8 - http://www.fordservicecontent.com/F.../2015-Edge-QRG-Version-1_QG_EN-US_06_2015.pdf
Alaric Darconville
Flashlight Enthusiast
It's a common feature, but not (yet, but I can see how that could change) required by law. If so, it would probably be made part of FMVSS 114 (Theft Protection and Rollaway Prevention).
So, yes, there are cars "built that way" when using the transponder fobs, but for key-operated cars, no. None have a service brake safety interlock for the starter.
As the last real on-topic activity for this thread was in 2012. It's time to put this thread away.
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