Battle in the woods II: SR51 vs. Firefox I vs. Fire Fox III

[BVH]

Something to think about when loading battery cartridges on any of the lights that use Lithium cells and that are short on cell length clearance. I'm aware of one incident where one cell was completely inserted into the carrier and the 2nd cell was in contact with the negative spring of the carrier but the positive tip had yet to be inserted in slot number 2. As the thin label covered rim (- polarity) of the cell passed by and made contact with the somewhat sharp edge of the positive contact nub, the label was tore exposing the negative polarity case to the positive contact and an instant dead short occurred. Luckily, this was a protected cell. The point of contact on the cell arced and immediately got hot. The cell was immediately removed and continued to remain warm to hot for hours. Had it been an unprotected cell, who knows.

 

[Patriot]

Had it been an unprotected cell, who knows.

Yeah...that's a pretty scary scenario Bob and good of you to share. Imagine the flash of heat put into that cell that it would be warm hours later.

I have no confidence that any of the "Fire" cells would have escaped catastrophe and I can't imagine using anything unprotected in a multi-cell 18650 light like this.

 

[ma_sha1]

I would have been more interested had the FF3 used a SMO reflector as well but obviously this doesn't take away from its utility. 100K is still impressive for the size.

FF3 is way more than 100K, FF1 is 100K, FF3 is 215 & 225K for my production & pre-production units respectively. I am hoping someone will make a SMO for FF3 at some point, it could go up to near 300K I think

A while back, I have shorted out a un protected DX C-lion for a good 15-20 sec or so, it didn't explode, while the light didn't turn on due to the short & I took out the battery, it was burning hot, i put in outside & it eventually cooled down. I think if it kept going on for a while, the temp. would have kept rising & would have eventually ignited the cell on fire. I agree it's better to use protected cells, especially multi-cell format.

The FF3 is designed for unprotected high capacity cells such as panasonic 3100 or 3400mah. It has built in protection for shorts. Protected cells won't fit. But the spring is long, I think cutting the springs could make em fit.

 

[Patriot]

FF3 is way more than 100K, FF1 is 100K, FF3 is 215 & 225K for my production & pre-production units respectively. I am hoping someone will make a SMO for FF3 at some point, it could go up to near 300K I think

Thanks for the correction. I had it completely backwards....:laughing:

 

[Shikar]

Where the heck can i get a FF3 from? The group buy has ended and I would like one.
PM me and please help !!

Regards.

 

[ma_sha1]

There is no other way besides the group buy

 

[yot]

HELLO ALL
I'M FROM THAILAND. I HAVE JUST RECIEVED MINE.
ALL I CAN SAY IS, WONDERFUL, EVEN IT'S SMALL HID, [ BUT QUITE HOT ]

 

[ma_sha1]

Welcome on board! The FF3 is quite amazing indeed.

If it had high quality SMO, would easily get over 250K lux mark.

I have reached out to Shinetop, the maker of FF3 & see if I can obtain a drawing of the FF3 reflector dimensions. I will look into a custom run of SMO if I can get the dimensions.


Also, just an update.

The noise is gone from later production units such as seen in the group buy. Possibly that later units has potted the ballast.

 

[Isak Hawk]

I got mine a few days ago, and I'm very impressed. So impressed in fact, that I ordered another one

Mine is pretty loud during startup, but the noise goes away after about 10 seconds. After that I have to put the light next to my ear to hear it.

I wish SMO was an option, but I'm not sure I'd risk voiding the warranty to replace the OP with an after-market SMO... I'm pretty happy with the throw as it is, and the beam sure is beautiful

 

[ma_sha1]

Well, I got a response, drawing not available. The focal point is 8mm but for making SMO, one will nee dto send his reflector to reflector mfg. to make a clone in SMO. I am not going to take my reflector & send it out. maybe lips, the group buy host is willing to do it? He may have spare reflector.

 

[Deeksie]

Awesome beam shots, thanks for the comparison!

When the light clicks down to 24w, if it cools down a bit, does it then step back up to 40w? Or does it stay stepped down?

ma sha1, do you think it's possible to fool the light into thinking it is hotter than it really is, to force it to click down? Maybe some kind of resistor mod you can switch on and off...assuming there's a thermistor somewhere inside. It would be awesome to use it on 24w and kick it up to 40w only when needed.

 

[ma_sha1]

It will step back to 40w when cooled down, but it will only cool down when you turn it off, not going to "cool down" even at 24w

Interesting thought on force it to 24W, I can imagine a resister placed next to the sensor for kick-down, the resister wired with it's own switch & force the kick-down by heating the sensor locally.

The problem is , when you turn off the heating resister, I am not sure it'll kick up to 40W or not, at least not right away, which is not acceptable as no 40w mode on demand.

Multi mode HID ballast is pretty common, such as 24W/35W or 28/35W ballast, where it allows switching on demand.

Someone savvy with HID ballast may be able to transplant the mode switching components?

 

[Deeksie]

Ah thanks, that's good to know! 24w is still a lot in such a small device!

I'd guess that the sensor is probably a thermistor, if so it wouldn't be necessary to heat anything.

A thermistor is like a traditional resistor, but its resistance changes significantly more with the temperature it is at, and the relationship between resistance and temperature is known. The circuit measures the resistance of the thermistor in order to calculate the temperature of the light (typically using a simple voltage divider circuit). Therefore, if you placed a resistor in parallel with the thermistor, or in series with it, you could change what temperature the light thought it was at. You could then use a switch to connect and disconnect the added resistor, allowing you to switch "instantly."

Maybe when/if I get this light I will have a look at the mod myself. It would be nice to use it most of the time at 24w and switch up to 42w for a burst every now and then.

 

[ma_sha1]

I look forward to it. Two mods will make this light into perfection. A high quality SMO & a 2 stage mod

 

[ma_sha1]

Just saw this posted on Shoudian.com, looks like the 150W FF4 is an incan?

Google translate messed up a bit, but you can still make sense out of it thou.

Fire-Foxes Firefox design Share (about 150W of ignition flashlight, October 9) [Copy Link]

shinetop


Ignition flashlight Specifications (October 9) 5 ~~ at 9 {& N1 ^ 0 \; `! K * {- U $ Y
Recently, there has the many barrel I asked the Friends to fire 4, may be confused ignition flashlight being developed, the specific name is yet to be determined;
Basic Specifications 2 \! K8 Y9 w t-J
Light Source: Philips 6550 (halogen lamp) 150W luminous flux of 5000 lumens
power: the 4 string 18650 power lithium battery + v + u / w% w & [$ t
Drive: incandescent specific driver, two tranches or third gear power adjustment
Size: 17cm long, head diameter 70mm, handle diameter 49mm
Weight: about 450 grams without battery (overall and fire almost two centimeters long)
life: 150W Ignition power under ten minutes, low light file up to about one hour or longer 6 M & Y1 q # j # E l
Characteristics $ | 1 L; k2 q-d5 P-R
12 or 15V G6.35-pin compatible with any power meter bubble, very easy to replace, playability, domestic nur even a few cents a burn nor sad;
Cost compatible iron lithium battery, use a lot lower, but limited to the voltage meter Philips and Osram bulbs supports only up to 100W;% p "u1 o; a & G
For the transmission of heat as much as possible, using a quartz lens; For security reasons, the switch insurance cover, to prevent inadvertently;
for personal use only 8 l $ f5 J V. R feelings
Combustible ignition capacity, basically all-conquering, color slightly deeper, a few seconds you can get, very suitable for outdoor ignition, encountered bad matches and lighters to cope with the situation, such as wet vegetation, not to mention; 0 Z $ R0 G4 O "T $` 3 E
Night search capability, the same luminous flux LED and HID unmatched the fire transferred 50W not an opponent, incandescent human eye can identify with one second scene, the same brightness white LED, may need thirty-five seconds ;
Big actual use, the fever did not imagine;
take into account the degree of market acceptance of this product has not been determined whether listed; design has been conducting, but also because of personal preference, burning flashlight burn last in the front of the paozi charming, and probably very few people can bypass

 

[Isak Hawk]

So, it's about the same size as the FF3 (2cm longer).
It has 2 brightness settings, where high is 5000 lumens.
Less than 10 min runtime on high. 60+ minutes on low.

Sounds cool, but I think I'll stick with the FF3.

 

[ma_sha1]

Yes,

It sounds like a shorter version of "The Torch" with higher watts & runs on 4x IMR 18650.
I am kind of disappointed, I was hoping for 100W HIDs. 150W Incasn on 4 IMR 18650 will run around 10V, 15A, 10 run time may be over optimistic,
more like 6 minutes with AW 1600mah IMR. Good for fire starting but I don't think it'll throw like the FF3, as those bulbs has huge filaments.

 

[Patriot]

oops, wrong thread.

 

[ma_sha1]

Is it just me or looks like someone cloned the FF3 into LED?
This is a Triple XML light I saw on shoudian.com but haven't heard anything from CPF, Roche M170?

The size & the head looks like FF3, the body style looks identical to FF2.

 

[ma_sha1]

Haven't explored Shoudian.com for a while, surprised to see that Fire-Foxes 4 hid is official Development.

Quote

"关于火4的功率（1月25日）6 Q9 c' p/ Z6 u* L' \+ r
刚才仔细阅读了跟贴，看来大家对功率的要求真是永无止境；
为了满足玩家的发烧需求，会考虑将火四的极亮档增加到60瓦或更高，但目前还不能完全确定，尚有很多问题需要解决。

火4的一些参数（2013年1月12日）9 m9 s3 R" h4 d; y1 s2 @
由于企业版的排程将工厂产能占的很满，火3已经停止销售好几个月了，计划不再生产，预计几个月后会推出第四代HID手电；) T) G0 X/ c9 t$ n5 s$ C
火4将首次增加调光功能，关于这一点，自从火1时代起众多筒友就开始强烈建议；6 X% Z8 v8 I# g# b: O* c
① 三档调光，正常模式40W实际输出，低亮档模式24W，极亮档50W，理论光通量5000+流明；1 Z: \' v4 s" j, N3 A3 u- {: Y: j
② 采用双开关，尾部开关作为保险，侧按开关负责开关及调光；
③ 仍采用掌上型设计，四串18650，体积和重量与火3相当。"


Basically, using the FF3 body, FF4 power will be increased to 50-60W max, running same 4x18650 (IMR only?)
It'll have modes for the 1st time in FF HID history, 24W low, 40W Normal, 50-60W Turbo! - Yeah!
Dual switch, tail switch for lock-out, side switch for on/off & mode changes ---------Yeah!

Look like the developer Shinetop has answered 2 out of 3 of my prayers, the 3rd one being SMO, which is not mentioned!
I need to go on Shoudian & make some noises