Best Self Defense light?
- Thread starter Ligament
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enLIGHTenment
Enlightened
Re: Best tactical light?
[ QUOTE ]
Ligament said:
the flash light is low on the totem pole for defense, but would still play a role in some situations.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having the time to escalate is an issue with multi-teired defensive plans. That said, I'd suggest looking at ultra high intensity strobe lights or something based around a royal blue (near-UV) Luxeon V. Either of those projected into a narrow beam would be extremely unpleasent to look at.
Harder UV lights and lasers >5mw can cause permanent eye damage, which may or may not be desirable from your point of view. A blinded mugger will be reconsidering his line of work as he will be living quite hapily off an use of excessive force settlement...
[ QUOTE ]
Ligament said:
the flash light is low on the totem pole for defense, but would still play a role in some situations.
[/ QUOTE ]
Having the time to escalate is an issue with multi-teired defensive plans. That said, I'd suggest looking at ultra high intensity strobe lights or something based around a royal blue (near-UV) Luxeon V. Either of those projected into a narrow beam would be extremely unpleasent to look at.
Harder UV lights and lasers >5mw can cause permanent eye damage, which may or may not be desirable from your point of view. A blinded mugger will be reconsidering his line of work as he will be living quite hapily off an use of excessive force settlement...
moraino
Enlightened
I was looking for Thor and found this Commando Flashlight II Stun Gun at Target.
Stun gun flashlight
I hope nobody have to use it.
Henry
Stun gun flashlight
I hope nobody have to use it.
Henry
Has no one said Gladius?
I know it isn't on the market yet, but it will be very soon.
Bright strobe, flanges for retention, great whacking bezel.
Oh darn! I just remembered that flashlights are really lousy for defense. Well, I guess I'm off to the ice cream store /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Scott
I know it isn't on the market yet, but it will be very soon.
Bright strobe, flanges for retention, great whacking bezel.
Oh darn! I just remembered that flashlights are really lousy for defense. Well, I guess I'm off to the ice cream store /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Scott
greenLED
Flashaholic
Ligament, from your post you seem to be versed in defense techniques. Have you looked into the SureFire e2D? It's an e2e with a crenalated bezel and tail. Bright little sucker! It's a tad smaller than the L4, BTW, and it uses an incandescent lamp assembly. Good luck with your search and welcome to CPF!
ACMarina
Flashlight Enthusiast
If you could take a higher ground position you could drop a Thor on somebody, that'd hurt pretty bad. . /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif
Personally, if it came down to a light, I'd toss mine. Then when the bad guy was trying to figure that out, I'd be reloading. .
Personally, if it came down to a light, I'd toss mine. Then when the bad guy was trying to figure that out, I'd be reloading. .
[ QUOTE ]
Ligament said:
Hello,
I want to carry it for two reasons:
1. Blind an attacker
2. Strike an attacker if need be (god forbid)
Would you please let me know your thoughts, and any suggestions for a better light. It needs to fit in trousers or a coat for carry.
Thanks!
[/ QUOTE ]
That's why I bought my first, second and third 3D mags. They don't fit very well in trousers, unless you wear a belt and suspenders, but a pouch, a'la Elektrolumens would work with Brinkman, Elektrolumens, and Mag. For lighter, go with a Pelican or Inova and buy one of the extendable striking batons. One goes by the product name "asp". On second thought, Fox Labs pepper spray+ a light would be a lightweight alternative, with slightly longer range than the lights or baton. Don't let 'em get too close. Remember, in all things: "FEET save the body!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Ligament said:
Hello,
I want to carry it for two reasons:
1. Blind an attacker
2. Strike an attacker if need be (god forbid)
Would you please let me know your thoughts, and any suggestions for a better light. It needs to fit in trousers or a coat for carry.
Thanks!
[/ QUOTE ]
That's why I bought my first, second and third 3D mags. They don't fit very well in trousers, unless you wear a belt and suspenders, but a pouch, a'la Elektrolumens would work with Brinkman, Elektrolumens, and Mag. For lighter, go with a Pelican or Inova and buy one of the extendable striking batons. One goes by the product name "asp". On second thought, Fox Labs pepper spray+ a light would be a lightweight alternative, with slightly longer range than the lights or baton. Don't let 'em get too close. Remember, in all things: "FEET save the body!" /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
Shirley
Newly Enlightened
I'm not a big fan of either using very bright lights alone (in lieu of dedicated defensive tools), or crenelated "strike bezels".
To me, relying on a light for defense is much like believing "intimidation factor" of a dedicated weapon is going to be enough to protect you, or even that pain can stop an attacker.
Sure, pain could stop an attacker, but the only reliable way to stop a machine is:
1. Structural,
2. Electrical, or
3. Hyrdraulic failure.
One thing to consider, might be a powerful one-handed light (clicky switch), with a lanyard attachment. Some 550 cord at the right length can give a very practical, easy to carry light that will also generate serious velocity, if one is forced to use a light as an expedient defensive tool. If the other end
of the lanyard is attached to a carabiner, you get a nice 2' or so of reach, which will come in handy in everyday life, or when the neighborhood dogs are loose.
I think crenelated bezels are a gimmick. Yeah, they'll rip more skin, which may not even be a positive thing in the age of aids. Aside from that, there is no advantage, and there are several disadvantages such as additional weight, difficulty of carry, and making a flashlight into something that could be restricted. Pop someone in the temple with the bezel or butt of something like a SureFire 6P, and it'll be plenty effective without the evil teeth of doom attached.
John Shirley
To me, relying on a light for defense is much like believing "intimidation factor" of a dedicated weapon is going to be enough to protect you, or even that pain can stop an attacker.
Sure, pain could stop an attacker, but the only reliable way to stop a machine is:
1. Structural,
2. Electrical, or
3. Hyrdraulic failure.
One thing to consider, might be a powerful one-handed light (clicky switch), with a lanyard attachment. Some 550 cord at the right length can give a very practical, easy to carry light that will also generate serious velocity, if one is forced to use a light as an expedient defensive tool. If the other end
of the lanyard is attached to a carabiner, you get a nice 2' or so of reach, which will come in handy in everyday life, or when the neighborhood dogs are loose.
I think crenelated bezels are a gimmick. Yeah, they'll rip more skin, which may not even be a positive thing in the age of aids. Aside from that, there is no advantage, and there are several disadvantages such as additional weight, difficulty of carry, and making a flashlight into something that could be restricted. Pop someone in the temple with the bezel or butt of something like a SureFire 6P, and it'll be plenty effective without the evil teeth of doom attached.
John Shirley
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I would not choose an L4 for self defense.
It is bright enough to blind an attacker, but to me there are problems. It uses a clickie, so it is slow to turn off if you depend on a sudden absense of light. For example, you might want to blind an opponent and suddenly move. It is too short for me to use as much of a striking weapon.
If you like the L4's beam, I don't think a SureFire L2 would be a bad option. It has basically the same beam plus a low level. It has a momentary switch and is long enough to reach soft spots as an impact weapon. Plus, its length allows it to be used to hook wrists and things for other moves.
The Gladius is another option. It is big enough to be used as an impact weapon/hook. The strobe is a nice feature that opens up a lot of possibilities other lights don't offer. I think it would be my first choice.
An important thing is that you have the light readily accessible when you need it. If the L4 is as big as you can carry, then learn to use that. Skill is vastly more important than deciding between similar flashlights.
Scott
It is bright enough to blind an attacker, but to me there are problems. It uses a clickie, so it is slow to turn off if you depend on a sudden absense of light. For example, you might want to blind an opponent and suddenly move. It is too short for me to use as much of a striking weapon.
If you like the L4's beam, I don't think a SureFire L2 would be a bad option. It has basically the same beam plus a low level. It has a momentary switch and is long enough to reach soft spots as an impact weapon. Plus, its length allows it to be used to hook wrists and things for other moves.
The Gladius is another option. It is big enough to be used as an impact weapon/hook. The strobe is a nice feature that opens up a lot of possibilities other lights don't offer. I think it would be my first choice.
An important thing is that you have the light readily accessible when you need it. If the L4 is as big as you can carry, then learn to use that. Skill is vastly more important than deciding between similar flashlights.
Scott
ScottyJ
Enlightened
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
- Messages
- 219
Would the M3 with the combat bezel be too big for you to carry? That is a bright light, tightly focused beam. That beam in someones face could buy you some time to do something, such as a full roundhouse kick to the head Chuck Norris style. :laughing:
Aaron1100us
Enlightened
Flashlights can be weapons. I just finished my ASP Baton trainning from an istructor who also teaches an all day tactical flashlight course. In low light conditions with a light that has atleast 65 lumens, you can temporarily blind someone which gives you the chance to leave or take over the situation. Just like in ASP training, the light shined into the eyes is a shock factor that disorients the person and can also cause momentary blindness if the light is bright enough. I just got a Surefire M3 and have the 225 lumen bulb in it. I can tell you from personal experience that yes, someone can loose their vision for several seconds if they try looking into the light. Of course, this works best in low light conditions where the persons eye are adjusted to low light. You can also use the light for a striking tool, even if it isn't a big maglite.
Handlobraesing
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2006
- Messages
- 2,724
Can't you use a camera strobe?
Not only would it temporarily blind the attacker, it would give him a false alarm that he's been photographed.
Not only would it temporarily blind the attacker, it would give him a false alarm that he's been photographed.
ACMarina
Flashlight Enthusiast
The key word here is "can". Say you shine your light and the attacker is turned away so the eyes are partially shielded..you move in to make an impact move and they shiv you with a knife..
Better than nothing, but it's definately not my only option. I've tried myself and on others, just for fun. We played with an airsoft gun one day, and 9/10 I was able to return fire and hit my "attacker" after I'd been blasted with my L4 and Aleph3. But that goes along with the "Don't bring a flashlight to a gunfight" idea, so maybe if you're trained highly in H2H combat you'd have a little more advantage..
Better than nothing, but it's definately not my only option. I've tried myself and on others, just for fun. We played with an airsoft gun one day, and 9/10 I was able to return fire and hit my "attacker" after I'd been blasted with my L4 and Aleph3. But that goes along with the "Don't bring a flashlight to a gunfight" idea, so maybe if you're trained highly in H2H combat you'd have a little more advantage..
TonkinWarrior
Enlightened
Re: Best tactical light?
Excessive force settlement?
Based upon my multiple "close encounters" with an assortment of umm, poor, low self-esteem, socially-disadvantaged Muggers, I've learned that THEY tend to operate in places where there AIN'T any witnesses!
The common-sense rules here are:
1. Situational awareness: NEVER be surprised. See "it" coming.
2. Be mentally prepared: to initiate some kind of countervailing violence plan.
3. Be physically prepared: armed and trained with several escalating force-levels of weapons (Cyndy Sheehan peace medallion>powder-puff>potent light> OC>baton>knife>gun).
4. Disrupt and stop (preempt) the Mugger(s) before they take tactical control of the situation.
5. Then, as they fall to their knees, whinning about how you were unfairly "offsides," an un-PC/violence-prone/heartless/insensitive Neanderthal, etcetera... and ruined their day... get the heck outta there. Fast. (For me, this has always been the hardest part, because I kinda like to admire the fruits of a job well done.)
Accordingly, since I've never been dumb enough (or politically correct enough) to give said Muggers my name, address, social security number, or my lawyer's business card, I've NEVER sustained ANY after-action legal complications/excessive force lawsuits from exercising my god-given right of self defense.
Subject to one's mindset and politics, YMMV.
---------------------------enLIGHTenment said:
Excessive force settlement?
Based upon my multiple "close encounters" with an assortment of umm, poor, low self-esteem, socially-disadvantaged Muggers, I've learned that THEY tend to operate in places where there AIN'T any witnesses!
The common-sense rules here are:
1. Situational awareness: NEVER be surprised. See "it" coming.
2. Be mentally prepared: to initiate some kind of countervailing violence plan.
3. Be physically prepared: armed and trained with several escalating force-levels of weapons (Cyndy Sheehan peace medallion>powder-puff>potent light> OC>baton>knife>gun).
4. Disrupt and stop (preempt) the Mugger(s) before they take tactical control of the situation.
5. Then, as they fall to their knees, whinning about how you were unfairly "offsides," an un-PC/violence-prone/heartless/insensitive Neanderthal, etcetera... and ruined their day... get the heck outta there. Fast. (For me, this has always been the hardest part, because I kinda like to admire the fruits of a job well done.)
Accordingly, since I've never been dumb enough (or politically correct enough) to give said Muggers my name, address, social security number, or my lawyer's business card, I've NEVER sustained ANY after-action legal complications/excessive force lawsuits from exercising my god-given right of self defense.
Subject to one's mindset and politics, YMMV.
TonkinWarrior
Enlightened
Re: Best tactical light?
EnLIGHTenment's "tool" analogy here is an excellent one... and merits amplification.
While we Flashaholics roundly love the "toy" element of our beloved torches, I strongly believe that the "tool" element -- different tools for different tasks -- is what tends separate us from the Illumination Illiterate who think "Any Flashlight Is Just Another Flashlight," e.g., the kind of folks who just might use a hammer to dig hole.
To get back to Ligament's original inquiry...
While CPF has had many threads debating this topic (lights for self defense), the smart wisdom seems to be that torches (alone) make a pretty poor "weapon." Under some (ideal) circumstances, certain lights MIGHT temporarily blind an attacker. But, that scenario has its risks, too.
For my part, I see the flashlight's primary role as "early warning radar"... illuminating threats before they become a surprise. An important secondary role is communicating that you are Situationally Aware... and probably not an easy "target" for a criminal. (Whether you actually back this up with some truly effective weapon is a crucial decision.) Accordingly, this could assist in your "criminal de-selection."
--------------------------------------
"Criminals must be taught to FEAR their victims."
-- Col. Jeff Cooper, "Principles Of Personal Defense"
------------------------------enLIGHTenment said:
EnLIGHTenment's "tool" analogy here is an excellent one... and merits amplification.
While we Flashaholics roundly love the "toy" element of our beloved torches, I strongly believe that the "tool" element -- different tools for different tasks -- is what tends separate us from the Illumination Illiterate who think "Any Flashlight Is Just Another Flashlight," e.g., the kind of folks who just might use a hammer to dig hole.
To get back to Ligament's original inquiry...
While CPF has had many threads debating this topic (lights for self defense), the smart wisdom seems to be that torches (alone) make a pretty poor "weapon." Under some (ideal) circumstances, certain lights MIGHT temporarily blind an attacker. But, that scenario has its risks, too.
For my part, I see the flashlight's primary role as "early warning radar"... illuminating threats before they become a surprise. An important secondary role is communicating that you are Situationally Aware... and probably not an easy "target" for a criminal. (Whether you actually back this up with some truly effective weapon is a crucial decision.) Accordingly, this could assist in your "criminal de-selection."
--------------------------------------
"Criminals must be taught to FEAR their victims."
-- Col. Jeff Cooper, "Principles Of Personal Defense"
Navck
Enlightened
If you really want self defense, you should go with a M*g and mod it
500 lumens/"Improvised" baton.
Other than that, anything like a Procupine/E2D/Any light with a crezinated bezel/long and heavy = Good for hitting a preson in defense.
The gladius also has that disoritentating strobe thing.
500 lumens/"Improvised" baton.
Other than that, anything like a Procupine/E2D/Any light with a crezinated bezel/long and heavy = Good for hitting a preson in defense.
The gladius also has that disoritentating strobe thing.
carrot
Flashaholic
Re: Best tactical light?
I absolutely agree. First and foremost, a flashlight is a lighting tool, and should be used for just that. Sweeping a light across a darkened parking lot, down a blind alley, that's what you need a light for, not for smacking someone over the head. Only in a last ditch scenario should you need to use a flashlight as a weapon in and of itself.TonkinWarrior said:
TonkinWarrior
Enlightened
Well said, Carrot!
