Botach advertisement in CPF - Very disapointed

[Botach Tactical]

I'm trying to figure this out. First we had "Brendan" posting that the place is under "new management", now we have Mr. Kochba himself posting under the name? Funny stuff.

How long was the previous management around I wonder. And how much cover do they provide in deniability for the company's past history.

As far as I'm concerned, the ownership is responsible for how a company operates, not its employees.

My name is Sagi and i'm a manager at Botach. Brendan or "Brendan" like you wrote is another manager and runs our Botach Defense site which is a site for members only and gives you the cheapest prices online (for now it's open to the public as well).
Brendan is from Australia and i saw that LA OZ is an Aussie as well so i asked Brendan to reply.

BK (Bar-Kochba) Saw the comment you posted (not personal of course...) and wanted to reply.
Yes, we have more than one person working in our company.
This is beyond personal! you've never even placed an order with us!!!!!
I just wrote it to help you "figure it out".......

Thank you for all the supporters and if you do place an order just sent me a message with the order number and i will process everything myself.

On a personal note,
I love this forum and as an ex commander in the israeli military i can tell you that forums like these are very helpful because we can always find the best reviews for almost every tactical product that is out there.
That is the main reason i insisted on coming here (I spoke about it with Greta too) I want to build our relations with you all.
If you believe me just place an order and you have my word, there will be no problems (if we don't have an item in stock i'll let you know right away).
If you feel like you don't want to give us a second chance, that's fine as well of course and thank you for reading.

We have a coupon that is only valid for CPF memebers : ' CPF ' gives you 15% off your entire order.

Thank you,
Sag

 

[ampdude]

LOL! :laughing: Could be! If I have time, I'll count the # of ones for DX and KD and all of their "offshoots"... might be close!

Considering more people here do business with DX and KD, and DX and KD are based in China.. well that's significant in my opinion.

 

[csshih]

Logically, I think we're being a bit harsh. The owner knows his company had a bad reputation, and we will probably jump on him if any deals go foul!

 

[Greta]

Considering more people here do business with DX and KD, and DX and KD are based in China.. well that's significant in my opinion.

EXCELLENT point! :twothumbs

And considering that both DX and KD change their names more often than some change their underwear, and have more "offshoot" companies than most have underwear, I have to ask myself what the big flap is all about regarding Botach Tactical?

At least Botach hasn't changed their name or pretended that there isn't or hasn't been a problem. They have come here with hat in hand and are trying to make amends and fix their reputation. Whether they do that or not remains to be seen.

I'm seeing a lynch mob with the rope already thrown over the branch for Botach but where are the ones for KD and DX? If I disallowed them (or any of their "offshoots") from advertising and selling on CPF, I'd be flooded with complaints from a whole bunch of you who would accuse me of being unfair and partial. If you all want me to disallow Botach Tactical from advertising and selling on CPF, then I am going to have to also disallow KD and DX and ALL of their sub-companies (trust me, gentlemen, there are more than you even have a clue on!) as well. Do you really want me to go there? I doubt it.

So let's put the rope away for now and save it for when and/or if it is really needed. Otherwise, get more ropes... and we'll lynch them all! I am here to serve... :bow:

 

[csshih]

Embrace Botach with a hug and a rope concealed in hand. While omnious sounding, I'm sure the owner will understand. I see no reason for a preemptive strike as of yet. Ymmv.

 

[lonesouth]

Here's my experience with Botach: On Nov 5, 2008, I placed an order for 4 20rd pmags and 4 30rd pmags @ $12.95 each. I didn't hear from Botach in more than a month, nothing mentioning backorder was on the site, no emails, no phone calls. Eventually Botach canceled my order and later revised their price on the pmags to ~$16 IIRC. The only email I received was to confirm my order, that's it. There was no email for cancellation or backorder. Lack of communication along with what appears to be knowingly canceling an order to raise the price just seems to be par for the course for Botach.

I was equally surprised to see their banner here at CPF. Hopefully they have changed, we'll see. If they are actually fulfilling orders now, and at a good price, I'll send them my business, but I certainly won't be the guinea pig.

 

[Monocrom]

I am here to serve... :bow:

And that's what we all love about you.

We just wish there was some way to ensure that Botach had that same attitude. I guess that'll take time.

As for DX or KD. They're like the village-idiot who can find you a variety of cheap items. Problem is, he forgets sometimes. Then a month or two later, he remembers. Eventually, you get what you wanted. But you know not to trust the village-idiot with anything important or anything you need right away.

 

[Patriot]

What you find is 18 threads jeering Botach, and 11 threads cheering Botach.

Despite the cheers threads, 18 jeers is conclusive in my book and for that reason I would call it a consensus.

In any case, I have no problem with them advertising here. I'm not of the opinion that CPF's reputation is going to be hurt, as CPF isn't affiliated with Botach. Most people understand how advertising works. I was never ripped off by Botach but I have experienced a lot of order problems with them in the past. Items advertised and not stocked is one of my greatest pet peeves with online purchasing. Hopefully they've learned how to manage their inventory since my experiences a couple of years ago and with proper software it's very easy to do these days. I'm not sure that "second chance" is the ideal phrase here since undoubtedly they've been given a lot more than a "second" or even a third chance.

My take on these types of things is that the market will work itself out. If Botach is really different now, we'll start seeing a lot of cheers and next to zero jeers. I think it would be great for people to post about their experiences both good and bad so that a new picture can be formed. Some may obviously never give them business again after the substandard ammo to our troops fiasco and that's their prerogative.

Botach Tactical
We have a coupon that is only valid for CPF memebers : ' CPF ' gives you 15% off your entire order.

For the record the 15% off deal was not exclusive to CPF members. The coupon code "stimulus" was also valid for 15% off up until a few days ago and was widely known about on the various shooting forums. Anyone visiting your website was treated to 15% off through the large yellow banner at the top of the page. So in that regard CPF members enjoyed no deal beyond the general public. I see now that the "stimulus" coupon is back to 10% as of today in which case 15% to CPF members is now actually exclusive.

 

[gorn]

My only dealing with Botach was a very positive one. Even though I had read the jeers to them a few years ago I needed a Gladius for my son who was headed to Iraq. Only Botach had them in stock and at a price well below other sellers. I called them, explained that I needed the light fast and was told that it would be shipped the next morning. I received the light 2 days later.

I did find it surprising that they became advertisers here based on the negative feelings they have on the forum, but I also see Wicked Laser advertisements here and I know of their shady past. I have no idea if Wicked has changed practices, but at least Botach has owned up to past stupidity and says they will correct it.

 

[Botach Tactical]

For the record the 15% off deal was not exclusive to CPF members. The coupon code "stimulus" was also valid for 15% off up until a few days ago and was widely known about on the various shooting forums. Anyone visiting your website was treated to 15% off through the large yellow banner at the top of the page. So in that regard CPF members enjoyed no deal beyond the general public. I see now that the "stimulus" coupon is back to 10% as of today in which case 15% to CPF members is now actually exclusive.

Patriot,
We changed the ' stimulus ' coupon to 10% long time ago but we got a lot of requests and calls asking us to change it back to 15% off and so we did but now it's back to 10%.

Only CPF members get the 15% off their order.

I just want to write it again, if you place an order with us please send me a message with the order number and I'll take care of everything.

Thank you for you comment,
Sagi

 

[BVH]

I just want to write it again, if you place an order with us please send me a message with the order number and I'll take care of everything.

Thank you for you comment,
Sagi

As a neutral observer, there's two ways of looking at this statement. Either you send an email and get extra special service from Sagi or You have to send an email to get normally expected service when you place an order.

 

[Botach Tactical]

As a neutral observer, there's two ways of looking at this statement. Either you send an email and get extra special service from Sagi or You have to send an email to get normally expected service when you place an order.

You are right, i meant to say that we have a lot of calls every day and you might have to hold if you want to ask something and also we get lots of orders everyday so once i get the order number i can just go and get that order and take care of it myself (so i guess extra special service from me is the right one haha).
Thank you for letting me know about the misunderstanding.
Sagi

 

[Roger Sully]

I've seen companies in the past where the actual owners had no clue what was going on with their business until the stuff hit the fan...
Could that have been the case here? I can't say, but it would seem from all of their statements that they are now actually paying attention to customers and to the products and services that they are providing and not just to profits.
With that in mind those who choose to do business with them should carry on and those who choose not to..well, carry on also!
I just had to throw in my $0.02...:wave:

 

[Woods Walker]

I ordered a hawk and light from them years ago. Got the order fast and there was no problems. Price was right too. I have heard of issues with this seller on other boards too but my order was done right. I hope everything works out.

 

[GadgetProne]

My advice....Make sure you contact them first the day of your order if they have said product in stock. I have had 2 experiences with them. First was approximately a year ago, purchased a watch....wasn't in stock took three weeks to get to me.

Second experience...Just 2-3 weeks ago...Same time they became a presence on this Board. They had listing for a certain flashlight. I purchased it. Then come to find out not in stock. I at first let it go...but then cancelled order.

In fairness I tried to get same order from OpticsPlanet but they also said wasn't in stock after the fact.

I found a local dealer but had to pay $20 more and pick it up same day.


Botach has very good prices.....but you decide for yourself.

 

[LA OZ]

I ordered a Gladius from them almost two years ago. The system indicates that I will receive a quote on shipping fee to Australia. I did not received the quote; they charged me $40US without first getting my permission. When the product arrived, the Gladius looks like it has been through some major action with well worn and scratches to the body and switches. These were not from shipping but from long term abuse to the torch. I have tried to resolved the issue via emails but did not receive any reply. I rang Botach and felt I am wasting my time from unhelpful staff.

As you can see there are some serious issues with Botach and are at various fronts.

 

[Botach Tactical]

LA OZ ,
First let me apologize for the way you've been mistreated.
The person who was in charge of International orders was fired and i brought someone else to replace her.
I can't answer for something that happened before i started working at Botach Tactical (because we replaced almost the entire staff) but i promise you that everyone gets an email and we don't charge anyone without his or her approval.
Again, i apologize and i understand your disappointment but i guarantee you that it won't happen again.
Thank you,
Sagi

 

[DR_DEUCE]

It seems like we are placing too much emphasis on COST, and not enough on VALUE and PIECE of MIND.
As I see it, the only reason to use this outfit, is the lower COST.
So, you save a dollar or two, but you end up getting $%^#@'d during the process.
I am reading several posts from this outfit about all their problems, and how they won't repeat.
Why not think about the VALUE aspect of a transaction.
SOME PEOPLE KNOW THE "COST" OF EVERYTHING, AND THE "VALUE" OF NOTHING.

In my life, (I work on motorcycles in my garage as a hobby--for cash), I have guys calling me and asking me to work on their bike, cause they were TOLD to by one of their pals that I had done work for previously.

 

[LUPARA]

No ordinary person can go into international arms trading without:
a) Letters of introduction or
b) Connections with unscrupulous people.

A little appearance of an add on CPF and even the loss of a few customers means nothing. There's bigger fish to fry and lights to try.

 

[greenLED]

No ordinary person can go into international arms trading without:
a) Letters of introduction or
b) Connections with unscrupulous people.

A little appearance of an add on CPF and even the loss of a few customers means nothing. There's bigger fish to fry and lights to try.

OK, I think this is heading in the wrong direction now... :shakehead