Computer Questions? LONG!

[star882]

"Until I got this Dell Dimension 4500, all of my systems have been "garbage dog" pee cees - just motherboards and drop-in cards (mostly ISA) and RAM and keyboards and mouses and monitors that I collected over the years, ranging from parts I got out of dipsty dumpsters, to parts that some CPFers sent, to parts I bought at a local computer shop.
I had crashes ranging from around once a week to many times a day with those - but no fatal crashes on this Dell.
When I restart the Dell, it's of my own free will, not because I got the "blue screen of death" when I try to save a post."
I also have a Dell.
I have tested it for stablity by loading distributed.net(to stress the CPU) and Fear Factor(to stress the GPU) at once, and it passed.
The only downside to Dells is the WTX power supply.
This is overcome by the fact that the stock Dell power supplies are very good(probably modified Antec Truepowers), and the WTX power supply allows for instant-on.
If the power supply blows it's top, you're screwed, but most computers become obsolete long before something wears out(as an example, my Pentium Pro blew it's power supply sometime last year).

 

[geepondy]

I used to recommend building your own system as that's what I used to do for a living but now I tell people to just buy Dell. The price/performance level isn't worth it IMO, to build your own unless you need absolutely top end with exactly the specifications you want. Processor speed is a given....it's hard to even find any new systems under a P4 2.0G. I think 60-80G hard drives are the norm as well, even for starter systems. Most contain a built in combo NIC/modem card but you would of course want to make sure of this if you still need a modem. The lowest end systems will stick you with built in sound and video but you can upgrade both and get something decent for your needs for not much more money. Certainly I think you can get a Dell system for under a grand that will fit your needs, depending on choice of monitor.

 

[tiktok 22]

Hi Guys,

My biggest problem with vendor built systems is the useless software they put on it. It takes up drive space and hogs your system resources. And can sometimes be a real pain to get it off your computer without removing directory files if you can remove it at all. The second biggest problem is the limited amount of information about the system(jumpered & jumperless settings, motherboard info, overclocking, etc.) when upgrading. Not to mention the ability to upgrade at all. Although some vendors are better at offering this info than others, it still leaves a lot to be desired.

just my thoughts,
kev

 

[FalconFX]

If you're tech-savvy, you can kill any software you don't want from your preset computer, edit registry keys out and clean up any unused progs. Even things like MSN Messenger can be nixed if you don't want it there...

You can go to places like www.tweakxp.com (For WinXP) and tweak to your heart's desire to make a factory bought computer with all its software junk run as if it was freshly installed with only the OS...

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Good stuff guys!

I am more confused and frightened now than I was when I started. I cruised Frys awhile this afternoon. I saw a mind boggling array of stuff.

Just picking a case looks like a nitemare. Some have PS, some don't. Some have fans, many have one. Lots have a door over the drives and switches. Yuck.

MBs, eek! The EPoX EP-8RDA+ looks as good as many, but is also at the lower end of the price scale. And at Frys it says it supports 1800+ max. Although some website I saw had the guy using a 2100+ on his.

It looks like no less than $1000 is going to do it.

A shop not far from me has a printed flyer with systems on it. Best looking one (ONLY one of 2 out of 8) with a real Vid card (GF4 Ti4200 128MB DDR/TV out) also has Gigabyte GA-7VAX/DDR400 MB, AMD XP 2400/Microfin Fan, 60g WD 7200rpm HDD, modem, lan, DVD, CDRW, Altec Lansing AVS300 Speakers, and XP Home Full version OEM. All for $969.

Not sure I could beat that with a stick!

ARGH!

 

[BF Hammer]

[ QUOTE ]
PlayboyJoeShmoe said:
A shop not far from me has a printed flyer with systems on it. Best looking one (ONLY one of 2 out of 8) with a real Vid card (GF4 Ti4200 128MB DDR/TV out) also has Gigabyte GA-7VAX/DDR400 MB, AMD XP 2400/Microfin Fan, 60g WD 7200rpm HDD, modem, lan, DVD, CDRW, Altec Lansing AVS300 Speakers, and XP Home Full version OEM. All for $969.

Not sure I could beat that with a stick!

[/ QUOTE ]

Based on you original post I would ask the retailer if an ATI All-in-Wonder video card could be substituted for the GeForce 4 card (has built in TV tuner and the extra goodies to help with creating/editting video on a PC) and for what difference in price. Otherwise, looks good if the retailer doesn't skimp on the case or RAM.

 

[shrap]

[ QUOTE ]
BF Hammer said:
Based on you original post I would ask the retailer if an ATI All-in-Wonder video card could be substituted for the GeForce 4 card (has built in TV tuner and the extra goodies to help with creating/editting video on a PC)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why an ATI AIW? He never mentioned anything about making video.

IMHO, the ATI AIW is a marvel of inefficiency. I've got two computers with AIW Radeon 7500's. I bought them for one purpose only: to record TV programs for archival purposes. If this is what you want to do, then I can support that.

It's dumb to watch TV on a computer. TVs work so well already. If you don't plan to do any long-term storage of the programs, but you like the idea of temporary digital storage, get a Tivo.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

The case is a bunch of cryptic stuff "ATX GII-01 (7C0225-201) 300watt"

This MISERABLE Gateway crashed AGAIN while I was surfing Newegg.com

I HATE this thing, and by extension Compaq, Dell, HP etc.

I'm scared to build my own, but it is looking more and more likely.

I guess I can ask what a real case, at least 450w PS, and subbing an ATI All-in-Wonder would do to the price.

Except for maybe the speakers, I can't find anything to delete!

ARGH!

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Oh, and I would be WAY better off if I hadn't discovered CPF!

LOL!

 

[tiktok 22]

Thanks for the website Falcon, looks pretty cool.

No doubt there is definately a lot to learn when building a computer. Almost overwhelming if your just learning. But I am sure if you tried, you could do it.

If your not ready to jump in feet first, that doesn't sound to bad of a price though. I would still look around though before you plunk down some serious cash.

You mentioned a sub $1000 system you are looking at. If you mention a price range, maybe we could help you look for a system that suits you. Check out these vendors:

http://www.abspc.com
http://www.cyberpowerinc.com/home.htm
http://www.gentechpc.com
http://www.alienware.com
http://www.systemax.com

 

[Charles Bradshaw]

Primary thing is to figure out what your needs are and leave a bit of room for upgrading (XP screws you for upgrading and is one reason I won't get it).

Once you figure out your needs, then start looking at motherboards for those that meet your needs. At one time, I needed an ISA slot for a parallel port card (2 parallel printers). Now with my USB printer, I could dispense with the ISA slot. This says the needs can restrict motherbaord choices.

 

[star882]

"It's dumb to watch TV on a computer. TVs work so well already. If you don't plan to do any long-term storage of the programs, but you like the idea of temporary digital storage, get a Tivo."
Computer screens are so much better and clearer than TV screens(except for HDTV).

 

[FalconFX]

It's up to you whether you want to keep it simple, or scrutinize everything you get...

I'm very picky with my parts. I usually stay with 3Com or Intel when it comes to ethernet cards. Or stick to Gainward or Leadtek when it comes to a GF4-FX based gravid card...

There's always 1 single thing that I absolutely would have to scrutinize until it croaks when it comes to a prebuilt system, and that's the Motherboard... Dealers cut costs by integrating everything to the MB, because you have built on sound, build-in ethernet, and a built-on graphics card, and they'd run the entire system and effectively gag it by doing so...

This is why even though a system looks very tempting at sub-$1000, but when you get to the jist of it, when you need to buy yourself a vid card or better sound card or even an off-loading ethernet card if you're a LAN party person like me, costs can rise up beyond what you'd initially planned...

That's why I consider building one with parts you personally chose to be a whole lot better overall... If you stay within name brands, like 3Com, Western Digital, Sony, Asus or Abit, Corsair, Creative, Gainward or ATI, etc., your system building process would go quite smoothly...

 

[Saaby]

I think James basically just said it but you could always just buy a Mac. I'll soon be picking up a decent used G4 with monitor et. all out the door for less than $1000. I've used lots of OS X Macs at school this year. iMacs and eMacs, likely with not enough memory, are easy to crash. PowerMac G4 with plenty of extra Ram? Can't get it to crash or even slow down...end of story.

 

[PlayboyJoeShmoe]

Well Choua,

Based on several things I've web searched or gotten from this thread, I believe the system from the shop near me might well do it.

It is a Gigabyte MB, which I have been recommended at least once, an AMD XP 2400 with a fan I've heard of, 6 channel sound on board (and whatever is in my 'puter making sound through a pair of pretty cheap Labtec speakers is plenty - there is a nice Sony system in the other room), not named 512MB of DDR 333 memory, Western Digital HD, Geoforce Ti4200 128MB Vid Card, MSI CD RW, and XP Home Full Version OEM...

And is not a proprietary Compaq, Gateway etc. It is a CLONE baby!

Just gotta save up a bit...

 

[FalconFX]

That sounds like a great system. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Gigabyte boards are actually pretty stable (save for things like the TwinBios)...

The AMD might come with something like a Delta Fan and maybe a CoolerMaster or ThermalTake heatsink; both good heatsinks... If you have a fan control on either to slow down the fan and avoid that vacuum like sound, the more better...

The RAM shouldn't be an issue... The only issue I can think of is if you're doing mass database processing and may need ECC for it, but that's a different can of worms...

The GeForce 4 Ti4200 card's pretty good, and you can overclock it to bring it up to Ti4600 performance with the new 43.43 version NVidia drivers...

Overall, I'd say a great choice for $1000...

 

[shrap]

[ QUOTE ]
star882 said:
Computer screens are so much better and clearer than TV screens(except for HDTV).

[/ QUOTE ]

Cost more, lot smaller. TV quality is low enough that resolution isn't that important. More importantly: how are you going to get several people to sit and watch a monitor that's on your desk? My computer is set up for work (typing and such). There's no way to comfortably watch a movie in an office chair, compared to a sofa.

I know computer monitors are superior, but there's more to the TV watching experience than the image quality.

 

[tiktok 22]

Hi Guys,

currently my brother-in-law is now using one of his computers as a PVR (personal video recorder). It's hooked to a 32" tv and works great.

 

[FalconFX]

Cost more, lot smaller. TV quality is low enough that resolution isn't that important. More importantly: how are you going to get several people to sit and watch a monitor that's on your desk? My computer is set up for work (typing and such). There's no way to comfortably watch a movie in an office chair, compared to a sofa.

I know computer monitors are superior, but there's more to the TV watching experience than the image quality.

Well, when you're a college student in an apartment and your flat CRT monitor's 19-24 inches and as large as your TV set, and the monitor has a .24 dot pitch uniformly throughout screen, it makes for an awesome home theater, especially when you've got a 500Watt Klipsch blowing away, you can output to your TV at the same time, and the sofa and chairs can accomodate 10-12 friends... Makes for an awesome get-together...
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

One of many examples of how a home computer has gone way beyond just printing paper and word processing...

 

[star882]

"Cost more, lot smaller. TV quality is low enough that resolution isn't that important. More importantly: how are you going to get several people to sit and watch a monitor that's on your desk? My computer is set up for work (typing and such). There's no way to comfortably watch a movie in an office chair, compared to a sofa.

I know computer monitors are superior, but there's more to the TV watching experience than the image quality."
Just look at those 15" TFT TVs, they cost about $1000.
My PC costs just under $1000(including upgrades), has a 15" TFT screen, and can do more.
"The AMD might come with something like a Delta Fan and maybe a CoolerMaster or ThermalTake heatsink; both good heatsinks... If you have a fan control on either to slow down the fan and avoid that vacuum like sound, the more better... "
I have a Delta fan in my 200w Delta power supply for my old Pentium MMX.
Of course, Britney Spears is my solution(drown out the fan noise, keep your PC cool(heat kills semiconductors)).