First pistol

[Lee1959]

Buy a pocket holster, and carry with round chambered. It is safe, and ready to use. If you carry without a round chambered the pistol will most likely be used upon you, or in the person who killed you's next attack on some other innocent victim.

Try this, time yourself drawing, chambering a round,aiming and pulling the trigger. Now have someone run away from you with you and time them. See how far away they would have to be in order for you to get that pistol out and a round chambered, and fired (good time to use that snap cap in trying testing this scenario). That will tell you if an empty chamber is a good idea...

 

[Nochrome]

Respectfully, and in my humble opinion, you are making a mistake if you think this gun will make you more likely to survive a street encounter with a bad guy. I can tell you with certainty that the vast majority of street robberies are for the sole purpose of getting your cash/valuables. They are not for the purpose of killing you. It's a terrifying event to be sure but ask yourself how often do you hear of (in the news) a robbery in which the victim (not fellow drug dealer, but an honest to goodness innocent victim) was killed by the suspect? and yet robberies are happening everyday in every community all across this country. Here's a few things to think about...
1. Are you actually ready to kill someone?
2. I mean really actually kill them?
3. Do you know what someone with a gun will do right after you shoot them? They will most often shoot you.
4. Do you know that its actually a very rare event to kill someone with the first shot? (even headshots are not certain) I have seen several people talking/walking after being shot in the head. Including one amazing fellow that shot himself in the head and then jumped off a 3rd story balcony. I digress...
5. What about a knife?
6. Will you hesitate if the suspect only has a knife. If he's within 21 feet of you (not to mention the 2-3 feet he probably is) he can stick that knife in your chest or throat before most pro's can even draw and fire an accurate round. Did you know that? And yes, even if you shoot him he can still do that.
7. What if he just has his fists and threatens you. Will you kill and unarmed man? I'n not saying you won't but will you? really?
8. Maybe you think you'll just threaten him with the gun and he'll just run away?
9. But now you've introduced a gun to what was essentially an unarmed encounter. Remember, people, especially drugged/intoxicated people, have a remarkable ability to survive even multiple gunshot wounds. The guy you threatened may just take that gun away from you and shoot you with it.
Unlike the bad guys good guys die from gunshot wounds all the time even seemingly minor one's. Go figure...
I know we shouldn't just give in to evil or what are we? right? I get that, but dead is dead.
I'm really not just being contrary. I am saying though, that if your playing the odds you are way better of giving the idiot your wallet or watch or whatever. Note that your own post indicates that your relative was robbed at gunpoint but not hurt. It's not just giving in, its a smart tactical decision which you make based upon what you can honestly say you are capable of. I hope you accept this in the helpful spirit it was intended. Good luck!
P.S I would not say the same things about a gun for home defense. Being in your home changes things quite a bit, but thats a whole new topic....

 

[Lee1959]

Would carrying a handgun have changed the relatives situation, unlikely. If the gun is already out and aimed you have already lost if you try to shootout. If the person is within range and already moving, you will not have time to draw, especially from a pocket, it IS harder than from a belt holster. You are better off in that case to have a cane to protect yourself with than a handgun which is a reason I carry a Blackthorn walking stick along with my handgun.

Would someone carrying a handgun in Lubys in Texas, or at the Virgina college shooting, or any other number of shootings have made a difference in the end number of dead and wounded innocent, very possibly or even likely.

As pointed out, you had better be dang sure that you are ready and willing to kill if you pull a gun. If not, you will lose, predators, human and otherwise, can sense fear and hesiatation.

 

[stevep]

IMHO you are better off with a revolver for a first handgun. A S&W 642 is easy to carry,no worries about a round in the chamber,stovepipes ect. It is hammerless(enclosed hammer) so it is easy to carry in coat or pant pocket. The holster and gun belt are very important as well, do not be cheap here. Realize you may have more than one handgun and holster. There is a very good website that has a bunch of free photo tutorials,you have to join,it is free. It is called Total Protection Interactive,here is a link to the photo tutorial section;http://www.totalprotectioninteractive.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=24. The owner of the site is a trainer,he has classes and also has tapes available,it is very good stuff. I do not want to be at the mercy of some thug as he decides to kill me or not. Do not carry without understanding all the it entails.

 

[TigerhawkT3]

I think that, for me, in order from practical to awesome, it would go something like this:

1. Beretta M9 or Glock
2. M1911
3. .357 Mag revolver
4. .44 Mag revolver
5. S&W 629PD (ultralight .44 Mag revolver)
6. S&W 500 with 8-3/8" barrel and hi-viz sight. I'll definitely own one one day, but carrying it isn't too likely. (CCW it aint.)

I've never been in a situation where I'd need one and hopefully never will, and probably wouldn't even use it if I was. I just think it's important to be able to carry.

 

[macforsale]

Thanks guys. We just bought a set of snap caps for the Kel-Tec to get a better feel for it without risking damage to the firing pin.

It bugs me a little bit that it doesn't have a safety. I suppose the long, nonlinear travel of the trigger acts as a sort-of safety, although I'd be worried about carrying a chambered round all the time. IS there any kind of attachable, quick release safety device that can be added?

The best safety will be the one between the ears. It can freeze-up, hesitate, make a bad choice or a good one. It is far and away better than any stamped, machined, molded piece of steel, aluminum, leather, kydex or carry configuration. You can exercise, test, condition and hone it to the precise level that meets your needs.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Nochrome, thanks for your thoughts on this -

Here's a few things to think about...
1. Are you actually ready to kill someone?
2. I mean really actually kill them?

I sincerely hope it never comes to this. However if I'm faced with the strong possibility of losing my own life at the hand of some creep, failure is not an option.

3. Do you know what someone with a gun will do right after you shoot them? They will most often shoot you.

I'm keenly aware of the fact that shooting at someone will probably p*ss them off. Taking immediate evasive action is a prudent idea.

4. Do you know that its actually a very rare event to kill someone with the first shot? (even headshots are not certain) I have seen several people talking/walking after being shot in the head. Including one amazing fellow that shot himself in the head and then jumped off a 3rd story balcony. I digress...

Yes, I have no illusions of being able to neutralize a situation instantly. This ain't hollywood.

5. What about a knife?

If I sense that the perp is unarmed or at least has no firearm, I'm much more likely to respond with pepper spray or other defensive measures.

6. Will you hesitate if the suspect only has a knife. If he's within 21 feet of you (not to mention the 2-3 feet he probably is) he can stick that knife in your chest or throat before most pro's can even draw and fire an accurate round. Did you know that? And yes, even if you shoot him he can still do that.

I was surrounded by a gang and held up at knifepoint once. Yep, I'm aware of that.

7. What if he just has his fists and threatens you. Will you kill and unarmed man? I'n not saying you won't but will you? really?

Absolutely not! My first strategy would be to try to talk him down. Failing that, I would employ other nonlethal measures. I'm not out to blow anyone away; I'm out to preserve my chances of remaining alive myself. I have a deep respect for life, mine as well as others. I'm also keenly aware that the other person has a family.

8. Maybe you think you'll just threaten him with the gun and he'll just run away?

Doubtful, but it all depends on the situation and the level of aggression and competence that I sense from him.

9. But now you've introduced a gun to what was essentially an unarmed encounter.

Nope. Not if he's unarmed.

... I am saying though, that if your playing the odds you are way better of giving the idiot your wallet or watch or whatever. Note that your own post indicates that your relative was robbed at gunpoint but not hurt. It's not just giving in, its a smart tactical decision which you make based upon what you can honestly say you are capable of. I hope you accept this in the helpful spirit it was intended. Good luck!

All of your points are well taken and I appreciate your opinion, Nochrome. I've struggled with this decision for many years, and I'm still a little uneasy about the whole thing because of the sheer gravity of the possible consequences of carrying. However I've reached a point where I recognize that I could well find myself in a situation where I need a little more than pepper spray, a bright, disorienting strobe flashlight and other nonlethal methods. And I sincerely hope that I never, never have to use it, other than for practice. In my mind it starts with trying to keep a cool head when confronted with a situation and making a choice based on the minimum amount of response to neutralize the threat as safely and effectively as possible.

P.S I would not say the same things about a gun for home defense. Being in your home changes things quite a bit, but thats a whole new topic....

Yep. Some states are specifically recognizing this as a special situation that automatically warrants a strong response. I happen to agree with this.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

IMHO you are better off with a revolver for a first handgun. A S&W 642 is easy to carry,no worries about a round in the chamber,stovepipes ect.

Thanks, Steve. I'm unfamiliar with the term stovepipes in this context. Does this refer to the barrel?

 

[StarHalo]

A stovepipe is when a shell gets stuck in the ejection slot, so the slide can't return and you can't fire another round until you clear it. The shell sticks directly out, resembling a stovepipe.

 

[supes]

I forgot to mention, have you tried any dry-fire drills? Plenty on the net. This may help in the trigger pull, confidence, weapon familiarity department,etc..

To cure a stovepipe:
Have handgun in front of face, not down with face looking at ground to have a constant visual.
1. hit the magazine with the palm of your left hand hard, while moving to the side(left/right) on your feet to prevent yourself from becoming a stationary, easier target
2. rack slide back hard,
3. then ready weapon again and shoot if threat is still viable.
You can replicate this failure with your snap caps on your Kel-Tec. Just make sure, the real bullets are in a separate area/container, just in case.

The j-frames are awesome carry pieces. Just make sure you practice even more with this one though, because revolvers are a different ballgame.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Thanks for th info on the stovepipe issue. I've had one jam so far but it wasn't the stovepipe problem; the round didn't drop into the chamber correctly, and it seems partly due to an alignment issue caused by the blunt nose on the round. I haven't had any jams when using sharper-nosed rounds.

 

[SnWnMe]

Revolvers have been getting the job done for many decades now and the aforementioned J frame's parent design has been around since the 1890s. Can't go wrong with a wheelgun but it requires even more practice and trigger time than an auto. Practicing with a highly concealable, alloy wheelie for social purposes should be with full power loads so the user can get used to the increased kick brought about by the light weight and reduced grip.

 

[depusm12]

Several tips from a LEO.

1. Carry what every you are comfortable with and can shoot accurately.
2. Practice, practice, practice and practice some more.
3. Practice shooting at 7 yards or less. The average gunfight happens at 3-7 yards (From FBI statistics).
4. Practice firing with both hands, 1 hand and try weak hand shooting.Weak hand is defined as the non carry side hand.
5. Practice pulling the weapon from whatever holster you will carry it in and dry fire it. Make extra sure the weapon is unloaded and you have snapcaps/dummy rounds in it.
6. Remember to practice, practice, practice and practice some more. Until shooting your weapon of choice becomes second nature and practice clearing jams and reload drills as well.
7. Carry at least 2 extra magazines. You never know when Murphy might step in give you a problem and you need an extra magazine or 2.
8. "Beware the man who carries only one gun, he may know how to use it."

 

[Kid9P]

Several tips from a LEO.

1. Carry what every you are comfortable with and can shoot accurately.
2. Practice, practice, practice and practice some more.
3. Practice shooting at 7 yards or less. The average gunfight happens at 3-7 yards (From FBI statistics).
4. Practice firing with both hands, 1 hand and try weak hand shooting.Weak hand is defined as the non carry side hand.
5. Practice pulling the weapon from whatever holster you will carry it in and dry fire it. Make extra sure the weapon is unloaded and you have snapcaps/dummy rounds in it.
6. Remember to practice, practice, practice and practice some more. Until shooting your weapon of choice becomes second nature and practice clearing jams and reload drills as well.
7. Carry at least 2 extra magazines. You never know when Murphy might step in give you a problem and you need an extra magazine or 2.
8. "Beware the man who carries only one gun, he may know how to use it."

AMEN BROTHER !!!! :twothumbs

 

[NA8]

5. What about a knife?
6. Will you hesitate if the suspect only has a knife. If he's within 21 feet of you (not to mention the 2-3 feet he probably is) he can stick that knife in your chest or throat before most pro's can even draw and fire an accurate round. Did you know that? And yes, even if you shoot him he can still do that.

I've heard that's a problem. However, I was wondering if they did any tests of how the knife guy does when a shotgun is aimed at him and they yell GO !!!

My money's on the shotgun, but I suppose a frying pan inside your shirt wouldn't be a bad idea either

 

[22hornet]

Hello,
Personally I would take a small frame .38 revolver or a Beretta 84-87 (medium size) series, or if you want a really small pistol, a Beretta 950 .25.
I can recommed these guns as I have never seen, or heard of, one malfunctioning.
What puzzles me is that Beretta, with a golden reputation when it comes to reliability, is getting bad reports when it comes to the Tomcat and the 21 series. I think that even rumors are enough to choose something else.
I think it is not worth the risk. You can shoot several hundreds of factory rounds trying to find out, up to a point where the little gun gets worn out. A small revolver will always work, as will a medium frame Beretta.
(These little guns Kel-Tec and Tomcats will also wear out rapidly, making intensive practise difficult.)

Of course, feel free to differ
Kind regards,
Joris

 

[Nochrome]

Its true that if you walk around with a shotgun aimed and ready to go you will probably win most confrontations regardless of what the suspect has in his hands. You might get a few stares as you walked around town though .
Seriously though, I have been involved in alot of training on this as an instructor and as a student and it is astonishing how often the "bad guy" can get to you even when you start out with gun drawn at the low ready position. It's not every time of course but 30-40 percent is bad enough. And just forget it if your holstered and not actually waiting for the attack.
I think I must apologize though as I seem to have gotten way off the topic of Photonwrangler's initial post. Sorry PhotonWrangler!
I will take a stab at actually answering your question rather than offering opinions that were not asked for.
I would echo the people that said that as long as you are comfortable with and know how to use it then it will be good for you. It's like any other tool.
I would say though that if it's fast stopping you want to do then a heavier round like a .40 .45 or 357 is a better choice. Of course guns that use those rounds carry a weight/size penalty. I like the Glock 27. I have seen what the .40 can do and its impressive. Of course alot of people have died after being shot with a .22 or 32 or 38 etc it's just that it usually takes them longer. The 27 combines a reasonnable capacity in a very compact package but not so small that you gotta 2 finger it. No safety to think about. Just point and shoot. It's actaully more accurate than my Glock 22 despite the shorter barrel. I see little point in carrying a gun for self defense that does not have a round chambered and ready to fire. I have never heard of an ND where it did not turn out that the trigger was pulled. Your best safety is your index finger.
Lastly, and this has also been mentioned I think, but I would also suggest that you consider your holster options carefully. I recommend one of the sturdy hard style plastic ones such those made by Blackhawk. These types of holsters make it much easier to put the gun away safely with one hand. They also have a positive locking feature. No guns falling out!I am not a fan of carrying guns in a pocket even using a pocket holster. It all works fine at the range but if your struggling or laying down or whatever it can easly become hung up in you pocket.
I'm sorry I have no idea if one is available for your gun but its a good choice I think if you can find one. Hope that helps.

 

[stevep]

Thanks, Steve. I'm unfamiliar with the term stovepipes in this context. Does this refer to the barrel?

The question has been answered. I must point out that Kel Tec has had reliability problems in the past. I would not trust any friearm that cannot fire at least 500 rounds(many use 1K as the test) without a malfunction.

The is a thread at The High Road called the 642 club,it is over 5K posts long.http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=314422&highlight=642+club
This revolver is very popular for many valid reasons.One is that it can be fired from a coat pocket or purse without malfunctioning,try that with an auto(I use those too) and it will jam.

Speer makes a 38SPL+P 125ge GoldDot designed for the velocities that snub nose revolvers generate. The recoil is not difficult to master,espically at self defense ranges. Start practising at 5 to 10 feet, as this is where many attacks occur.

I know I am giving you more info than you asked in your OP but I am sure you would set me straight if I thought a mini mag was the cutting edge of flashlights.
I will be glad to answer any of your questions.

 

[steve6690]

I use a Glock 17 (too large for you possibly) in my line of work. I need to draw and fire in less than a second. I'd argue that you do too, or you will end up dead if you ever decide to take on an armed threat - sorry to be so blunt. We use Glocks because you can safely carry them with a round chambered. I've fired thousands of rounds from it and never had a misfire or jam. My advice to you is buy a weapon that you need only to pull it out and squeeze the trigger. Carry it in a pancake holster on your strong side, and choose one that has no releases. Practice, practice, practice....because in a real situation all you will have is muscle memory...
good luck.

 

[cy]

sure glad to see all the pro's weight in...

seems my mantra of practice, practice, practice and more practice to the point muscle memory takes over is an accepted one.

it's nice to see my preference verified for a double action trigger when under real life pressure.

thanks for the 642 link... very interesting... don't think I'll be joining the airweight revolver club anytime soon. already bonded with my Walther PPK in .380.

PPK is 20 oz empty, safe to carry a round in chamber, double action trigger option, very_compact at 1in width, .380 round packs a punch. in short fits me to a tee. it's already part of me to where I don't have to think to use.