Goncz Hi-Tech M-7

[Size15's]

I can understand members getting upset because of a product not performing.

I can understand members getting upset because of a company not performing.

I can understand members getting upset when they are shown proto-types but few new products.

I can't understand why members are getting upset because of products they've never seen.

My advice is to leave Mr Goncz alone until he provides CPF with some evidence. First step as I see it - post photos. Second step - send some flashlights to Brock for him to review.

At the moment, the spaghetti harvest in North Hollywood over the last few weeks appears to be better then that of southern Switzerland back in 1957.

Al

 

[lemlux]

Al:

Not everyone on the west side of the pond has had the edifying experience of seeing the BBC's April 1, 1957 documentary on the spaghetti harvest. The last time I saw it re-run was on the Johnny Carson show in the early '80's.

I first saw it on a BBC rerun in 1978 or 1979 when I was living in Bayswater and commuting to Woking.

 

[Bushman]

Did you commute to wok in Woking or did you live there

 

[TOB9595]

I wish I said that

 

[TOB9595]

Some attribute the increase in the harvest to the increase in lead in the headwatersa of the Colorado River. Personally I don't see it! I think the drier than expected weather created the same conditions as that in Woking in, I forget the date. But you know

 

[TOB9595]

Was that Sergeant Preston of the Mounties that came home at night to a cold cabin and called Whoa king? I think that's where Woking got its' name.

 

[lemlux]

I worked in Woking. A, underground tube to Waterloo followed by a commuter rail with 5 minute walks at each end. Total commute was about 1 hour each way. Oriental restaurants during walk to work in Woking wafted wonderful Wok aromas.

 

[Rothrandir]

well, all these woks are interesting and all...but how about updates?

btw, how the He|| do you pronounce Goncz?

 

[Nerd]

GoneS?

 

[geepondy]

Although I would not personally base a purchasing decision on a Goncz flashlight based on Mr. Goncz's comments on this thread, I do find them a bit personal and unwarranted. It reminds me of a flamer responding to a flame like you see so often in the newsgroups which refreshingly is (relatively speaking) absent from this forum. I think the intelligent, concise posts by Peter Gransee and the representatives of Inretech to be model examples to follow for a manufacturer discussing their products and comparing it to the competition.

 

[jtivat]

Originally posted by geepondy:
Although I would not personally base a purchasing decision on a Goncz flashlight based on Mr. Goncz's comments on this thread, I do find them a bit personal and unwarranted. It reminds me of a flamer responding to a flame like you see so often in the newsgroups which refreshingly is (relatively speaking) absent from this forum. I think the intelligent, concise posts by Peter Gransee and the representatives of Inretech to be model examples to follow for a manufacturer discussing their products and comparing it to the competition.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very well said, I just purchased my first Inretech and my sixth Arc and will continue to buy from both, very upstanding individuals they will both get lots of my money.

 

[Nerd]

Oh boy... it's just so hard to get some people to forgive and forget in these days...

 

[brightnorm]

Mr Goncz,

Your product seems interesting, even fascinating, and I agree that beam shots can be inconclusive.
Having invented several successful devices myself and seen them initially reviewed by well meaning but perhaps imperfectly understanding critics, I know exactly what it feels like. I know the feeling of wanting to rise to the defense of my creation and to impugn the intelligence of the reviewer. But because I know that would appear childish, even churlish, and be unproductive and ultimately self-demeaning , I managed to respond to criticisms with good grace. It took an effort, and I was, at the time, an impetuous and somewhat hotheaded young man, but I increased my own self respect and the esteem in which I was held by others.

A good example of this is Peter Gransee. Do you have any idea of how many criticisms, suggestions, disagreements he has had to put up with? Literally hundreds! Without exception he has responded with tolerance, humor and grace. Aside from the fact that his products are superb, is there any wonder why we wish him success and are happy to patronize his company?

Mr Goncz, in your short time on this board you have managed to personally insult several of my colleagues for no reason other than your own defensive pique. In a scant few days you have introduced a hostile and discordant note into a civilized, friendly and collegial group. Regardless of your personal feelings there is no excuse for your behavior. Frankly, it is only through our tolerance and good graces, not to mention our honest curiosity, that you have not been unceremoniously removed from this discussion.

I will pass no judgment on your lights since I have never seen them. I am also aware that the message and the messenger may not be identical and that sometimes the truly creative man can be rather temperamental. Perhaps your products are indeed superior and worthy of our time.

However, if you continue to be insulting, demeaning, crude and obstreperous I sincerely hope that moderators of this board will take appropriate action.

Brightnorm

 

[Nerd]

After posting one rude message 24 hours ago, there has been no more furthur outbreaks. Let's keep it that way can we?

 

[jtivat]

Originally posted by guncollector:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">jtiovat asserts:
I do believe that I have said nothing about this person or his company. I have only made reference to his posting (which say allot if you look at them).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

jtiovat previously asserted:
These may be great lights and have a guarantee but a guarantee is only as good as the person giving it. I no nothing about this company besides what I am reading here and it does not say much for this guarantee.

It smells fishy to me.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jeff-

Come on, "nothing about this person or his company"? You're a reasonable guy.

In your original post, within two sentences you make reference to "lights" (GHT M-series), "guarantee" (GHT 30-Day), "person giving it" (Mr. Goncz himself), "company" (Goncz High-Tech)--and you manage to imply the warranty will not be honored. Your third sentence contains now infamous "fishy" comment.

Does that sound like "nothing about this person or his company"?

If you're critical of Mr. Goncz's reply toward Kenshiro, okay. Let it be known. But, you went beyond criticizing his commentary--and managed (perhaps inadvertently?) to question his and his company's integrity.

I think both Mr. Goncz and you have stepped out of line. Mr. Goncz owes an apology to Kenshiro, and you an apology to him.

I see no demonstrable reason yet to question Mr. Goncz's 30-Day Guarantee, his lights, or company. If you possess such reasons, please state them for all to consider.

On another note, "yes" we lambast many companies for demonstrable shortcomings in product or service. Often, like in the case of SF, we lambast and commend in the same thread. But the key word is demonstrable.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I was trying to convey to John was that his posts are the only thing we have to go by right now. He has no track record with any of us. So we or I have only those words to go by. I am really not trying to slam him or his product but it is very upsetting to see some of his post to our members here at CPF.

 

[Velcro]

So, when are we going to see the 100 or 150 yards pics?

Greetings,
Velcro

 

[beamer]

Well said,Brightnorm.

 

[guncollector]

I spoke with Mr. Goncz on the phone last evening. I suggested he stick to technical/informational posts only from henceforth, and let his products do the talking.

I know I'm beginning to sound like the spokesman for the Goncz Defense Fund, but I would like to address Brightnorm's well-conceived comments.

Brightnorm writes:
Mr Goncz, in your short time on this board you have managed to personally insult several of my colleagues for no reason other than your own defensive pique.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I note two identifiable transgressions by Mr. Goncz. IMO, one unprovoked on the 15th, and one provoked on the 16th.

Re: the 15th. As I previously stated, I feel Mr. Goncz owes Kenshiro an apology--though I feel his offensive comments were characterized more by a poorly chosen and applied proverb than any intent to offend. Furthermore, our esteemed Kenshiro is a big boy and more than able to stick up for himself--and I'm guessing he probably laughed it off as opposed taking a fraction of the offense everyone is assuming.

I am though starting to get the feeling some here are taking gratuitous shots at Mr. Goncz from behind the mask of "communal concern".

Re: the 16th. Read my comments above. I feel this response by Mr. Goncz--though not necessarily appropriate--was provoked. And while I hold Jeff T. in the highest esteem, it seems this tightly-knit community is conveniently ignoring the "provocative" post of "one its own".

If admonishment is called for, it needs be distributed a bit more fairly IMO.

In a scant few days you have introduced a hostile and discordant note into a civilized, friendly and collegial group. Regardless of your personal feelings there is no excuse for your behavior. Frankly, it is only through our tolerance and good graces, not to mention our honest curiosity, that you have not been unceremoniously removed from this discussion.

I will pass no judgment on your lights since I have never seen them. I am also aware that the message and the messenger may not be identical and that sometimes the truly creative man can be rather temperamental. Perhaps your products are indeed superior and worthy of our time.

However, if you continue to be insulting, demeaning, crude and obstreperous I sincerely hope that moderators of this board will take appropriate action.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">While I agree with the essence of the message you're sending (and I've personally relayed this same message to Mr. Goncz on the phone yesterday), I think this is borderline posturing.

A bit of a broad brush you're using, don't you feel in mischaracterizing Mr. Goncz? Putting aside Mr. Goncz's 1-1/2 transgressions, the majority of his posting are of technical and informative nature.

Who here hasn't offended someone, inadvertently or not, on occasion in a public forum? Suggesting Mr. Goncz one-and-a-half "transgressions" with "unceremounious removal" is undeserved I feel. Such threats are best reserved for true troll-type behaviour.

Just my $0.02.

 

[Joe Talmadge]

Originally posted by guncollector:
I spoke with Mr. Goncz on the phone last evening. I suggested he stick to technical/informational posts only from henceforth, and let his products do the talking.

I know I'm beginning to sound like the spokesman for the Goncz Defense Fund, but I would like to address Brightnorm's well-conceived comments.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Some people "get" the internet, some don't. Goncz doesn't -- at least not yet. In this case, it's best for someone who does understand the spirit a little better to guide him. You're a perfectly reasonable choice, I think you should continue to do it. I've been reading this entire string, kind of wincing the entire time. I don't want to lose Goncz as a contributor here, but the fact is, if someone doesn't give him some good guidance soon (as you have thankfully just done), he'd eventually get driven off, or so disgusted that he just quit.

By all means, please continue to provide him with guidance on how to respond. Personal attacks as a response to every criticism won't work. Even the "fishy" remark would have been taken by anyone with some internet savvy (e.g., Gransee) as an OPPORTUNITY to talk more about his company and gain our trust, not to show how quickly he's willing to sink to a lower level than anyone he's talking to.

Joe

 

[guncollector]

Thanks Joe for chiming in.

You're right. Mr. Goncz is more specifically not a "internet forum"-person...which at one time we all weren't.

After my many conversations with Mr. Goncz, I would characterize him as energetic, creative, highly-intelligent and an engineer's engineer. He is also an unabashed self-promoter--which is not necessarily a bad thing. Unfortunately, the above combined with lack of "forum experience" has resulted is some ruffled feathers here.

Just FYI, the "fishy" part was merely the capper. I think the provocative part of the statement was the unwarranted implication that Mr. Goncz would not honor his (30-Day) money-back guarantee.