HDS EDC 60 GT vs. Nuwai Q-III

[SchaqFu]

Totally agreed, VDG. Thanks.

I'm still really interested if anyone can compare the overall light output of a Nuwai Q-III on steroids... er, rechargables from BatteryStation.com, versus the HDS EDC 60 GT. Is the HDS the brightest 1xCR123 LED money can buy?

-SchaqFu

 

[lightthis]

Hi moephiues,

I expect to recieve mine on or about the 3rd so I don't have any personal experence with the EDC yet. However, from the feedback I have gotten, remarkably the EDC is as bright or possibly even brighter than the U2!! I'll see when I get mine to campare to my U2.

 

[Klaus]

The stock QIII on LiIon will discharge it beyond safe levels while the HDS EDC was designed with LiIons in mind and can handle this (and other) chemistries "by design" - read the HDS site or the HDS threads on the details.

I modded my QIII to a nice 3W LED, 2 stage switch, Pyrex lense, better heatsinking and safe DD LiIon operation and for the money IMO it can´t be beat even unmodified if you are lucky and get a nice LED inside - IMO the HDS EDC has all that and much more by default already, it certainly is a much superior product in every way but if its worth the higher price tag TO YOU is a very subjective issue.

As always just my 2 €cents and YMMV

Klaus

 

[cmacclel]

$50 more for gaurenteed tint?? Seems a little rediculous to me.

Mac

 

[SchaqFu]

Klaus -- good points, although the BatteryStation.com Li-ion batteries come with discharge protection built-in, so if you get those it's actually a good thing that the Q-III doesn't have discharge protection built-in. HDS even recommends not using discharge-protected batteries with the HDS flashlights because the two shut-off systems will conflict.

That at least eliminates one of the possibly bad things about the Nuwai Q-III. Mating it and BatteryStation.com R123s is a match made in heaven!

-SchaqFu

 

[SchaqFu]

As bright as a U2?! WOW! I just caught what Lightthis wrote. Where did you hear that the HDS 60 is supposedly as bright as the Surefire U2? If that turns out to be true, my goodness, there would be almost no reason to get a U2.

I will eagerly wait to hear if anyone can compare the two!

-SchaqFu

 

[NikolaTesla]

You can get 5 Q-lll's for price of 1 HDS. You can get hundreds of Timex watches for the price of 1 Rolex. So I ask you all, Which would you rather own? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

NikolaTesla /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

An Arc lamp is the Spark that takes away the Dark--HID Forever!

My Lights

 

[Lantern Jack O.]

I can't compare directly to the HDS because I haven't one, but I do have an Arc4+ (first), forerunner to the HDS EDC models being sold today.

So I just recieved my new QIII today. I was actually expecting the QIII to be brighter than my Arc4+. It isn't. The QIII I got put out a tad *less* light than the Arc4+, and that is with both lights on fresh batteries (Panasonic CR123 in the QIII, and Battery Station CR123 in the Arc4+).

Maybe I just got a lemon QIII, or a kickbutt 4+. Anyway, I'm saving my pennies now for the 60GT.

 

[Dr_Joe]

Interesting concept this comparison. I see it much the same way I think NikolaTesla does regarding watches. (heck ! a $6 quartz watch will always keep better time than a $5K Rolex, but ask me what's on my wrist !)

On paper there are alot of cars that perform similarly to the new Ferrari F430 for a fraction of the price.

Drive them all and you'll know there is something unmeasurable (but very real) about the Ferrari experience that justified its cost to all those who can afford it.

I think the HDS EDC is going to be the same way. Sure on paper there are alot of Corvettes, Vipers, and WRX's, but a Ferrari will always be a Ferrari !

For me, the HDS EDC wil be the one light to carry when I can only carry one,..... the Nuwai will be the light I carry when there's a good chance I'm going to lose one !

 

[John N]

[ QUOTE ]
NikolaTesla said:
You can get 5 Q-lll's for price of 1 HDS. You can get hundreds of Timex watches for the price of 1 Rolex. So I ask you all, Which would you rather own? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

These types of statements imply that the lights are functionally equivalent. This simply isn't the case. One is a multi brightness programmable light and one is a single brightness light. While I respect anyone's opinion who does not feel those functions are importaint to them, it doesn't change the fact that they are different. Simply that much of the function of the HDS light isn't importaint to them and thus undermines the value. To these people I say that the HDS simply isn't a good buy for them.

It seems the QIII is better compared to the SF L4, L5, KL1, Sharper Image 1W, etc.

Personally, I find the multi value output very appealing. I currently EDC a SF L1 + SF E2e to get three light outputs. In my mind multi output is where it is at. I find the two stage lights a good start, but I think one more output is needed. This means I think the competition for the HDS lights are more like the SF L1, L2, A2, U2 and BH Gladius.

It would be very interesting to see how the output on the HDS 60 stacks up against the U2. I'd be supprised however if it really is as bright.

Personally, what I want is the HDS EDC in a 5W / 2x123A package. That would be a perfect EDC IMO.

-john


BTW, here is the nice, inexpensive Shaper Image 1W:

 

[NewBie]

So better put, does that put the Nuwai Q-III against the U2? And leave the HDS EDC in a class buy itself?

 

[John N]

Huh?

 

[oldeng95]

sorry, but a SF U2 would have to be a dud for it to put out less light than a HDS GT60.

 

[lightthis]

HDS EDC 60 GT vs. U2

Hi John N, You said:
"Personally, what I want is the HDS EDC in a 5W / 2x123A package. That would be a perfect EDC"

I totally agree and from what I have heard, we will only have to wait just a little longer because we will get exactly what we wish for in the next 3 to 6 months. A 100 lumen output should blow the U2, and everbody else, away.

As for the HDS EDC60 being as bright as the U2, that was only what I had been told by some U2 and EDC owners. I have yet to make the compairson for myself...YET but, I suspect my U2 will be up for sale real soon. Only need one Rolex and that will the the shiniest of the two. (Sorry, bad pun!)

 

[PeLu]

[ QUOTE ]
CESDewar said:(there are some magnificent $100 Cabernets - but are they really FIVE times better than a good $20 cabernet?

[/ QUOTE ]

These comparisons are good, bit to stay in more realistic range (for me) I would rather have one bottle of some $30 wine than 5 others for the same money.
Other people would choose the other option.

And for brightness:
If you read the HDS website, you realize that relyability is one of Henry's main goals. This probably led to the thermal management and other features.
That means it should be realtively easy to just overdrive a LED and not caring abnout it's lifetime, the efficiency and suck out a CR123 in a few minutes. Then you will get a brighter CR123 light. If you want just to have the 'brightest CR123 torch/flashlight' there may be otehr ways to go.
If you define brightness as luminous intensity (which I assume), you may even add a lens or other reflector to get a smaller hotspot. The light may be not very useable, but you got the brighter light .-)
And if it is for pure numbers, you may measure it in microcandela (ucd) instead of millicandela (mcd) and get a number in the billions .-)
(I never understand why peeople give a reading like one million of thousands of a candela).
(attention for humorless people: last paragraph is satiric)

OK, soemwhat serious again:
The difference in between using a protected LiIon cell and a light with built in protection is that you get some warning. A protected cell shuts shuts off. If this is no problem for your application, fine.

[ QUOTE ]
cmacclel said:
$50 more for gaurenteed tint?? Seems a little rediculous to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm quite happy that I have the choice. It is your decision to pay for that option or not.
And it may be that even the non-GT EDCs have a better average tint than other lights. We will see when enough lights are around. Henry seems to be very cautious about the tint, if you read his articles he made some effort to get less tint shift when dimming. I did not realize that anywhere else (but I don't know that much).
And to come back to the car analogy: I always was angry about cars which are only available (in some better versions) with metalic colour, so I had to pay for it even as I did not want it.

 

[Klaus]

[ QUOTE ]
SchaqFu said:
Klaus -- good points, although the BatteryStation.com Li-ion batteries come with discharge protection built-in, so if you get those it's actually a good thing that the Q-III doesn't have discharge protection built-in. HDS even recommends not using discharge-protected batteries with the HDS flashlights because the two shut-off systems will conflict.

That at least eliminates one of the possibly bad things about the Nuwai Q-III. Mating it and BatteryStation.com R123s is a match made in heaven!

-SchaqFu

[/ QUOTE ]

SchaqFu,

where did you got that from that Batterystation R123 cells are protected beyond basic short protection ?

Here is the quote on the subkect straight from the horses mouth - emphasis added:

[ QUOTE ]
batterystation said:

...snip...

Since most of these batteries were going to be used in heavy current applications, we decided to just carry the higher capacity non-regulated but protected version. Protected meaning just that. Short circuit protected. We clamped them in vices and attempted to explode them. When taken out of the vise, full voltage was restored. Not even any damage done to the battery by this test other than crushing the body of one.

...snip...

Kevin



[/ QUOTE ]


Klaus

 

[SchaqFu]

Klaus -- that's exactly the post I'm refering to. These cells are protected, not regulated. I thought I read in your previous post that the Q-III would discharge li-ion batteries beyond safe levels:

"The stock QIII on LiIon will discharge it beyond safe levels while the HDS EDC was designed with LiIons in mind and can handle this (and other) chemistries "by design""

I'm suggesting that if you use protected batteries, like those from BatteryStation.com that you reference above, then this will not be a concern because they'll shut off before they discharge to dangerous levels. Do I have it right?

That's why there are lots of other posts in that thread (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/ub...26251&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=all) talking about the battery suddenly shutting off in the Q-III, rather than dimming into oblivion as they discharge completely. The HDS has this shut-off protection at a flashlight level, while some batteries have it at a battery level.

-SchaqFu

 

[chrisse242]

As I read this, the battery station rechargeables are not protected against overdischarging. Protection against short circuits is something else. So those cells could be damaged by putting them in the stock QIII. As far as I know, the only cells with the needed protection are those JSB is selling.
A K-vf bin Lux in dd could handle the batterystation cells because it should start dimming before dangerous levels a reached. Then again this depends on the particular vf of each LED and other factors. There is a nice thread about pilas and direct drive in the electronics forum right now. Basically the same thing. The LED could have reduced lifetime but the cells should be safe.

Chrisse

Chrisse

 

[SchaqFu]

Why does the thread I indicated above seem rife with people who say that the batterystation batteries cut off instantly when they get too low in the Q-III, rather than dimming? It sounds to me from reading that entire thread that these batteries do indeed have over-discharge protection (along with over-charge protection). Am I wrong?

Thanks.

-SchaqFu

 

[chrisse242]

Honestly, I do not know. All I can comment on is Kevins statement on short circuit protection. Since he only speaks about this protection, and considering the problems JSB had to go through on his way to offering "really protected" cells, I think it's safe to assume theses cells are not protected against overdischarge. I may be wrong, but I don't think so.
Maybe Kevin will show up here and clear things a bit.
I'm not sure about the term "regulated" regarding li-ions. There seems to be some kind of confusion regarding the features of different cells and finding the correct words for them.

Chrisse