HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-24-2010 08:44 PM GMT

Thanks!!! Does the clip hold tight? I was wondering since the clip makes contact w recessed tube instead of head. :thumbsup:

I don't have it on me atm but it is tight. There are reports of other members with a wider groove which allowed the clip to turn freely but as far as I know that issue is restricted to the standard body. Someone who had this problem posted that the Moddoo clip did not spin in the same light. This leads me to believe that the Moddoo Clip is slightly thicker. I can't recall if it was the SS or Ti version of the Moddoo clip that he had.....


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by edc3 on 11-24-2010 08:52 PM GMT

I would like to have an XP-G in my HDS lights also but even without them, the rest of the light is so much better than the competition that I am more than satisfied.

That sums up my feeling perfectly. I'd love to have an HDS with an XP-G for the beam profile (better for my usage), better runtime and higher lumens, in that order. But among the lights I own, none beats the overall package of my HDS lights and none get used as much.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Colorblinded on 11-24-2010 08:59 PM GMT

I think Russ at UniqueTitanium.com has one left still? Plus Russ is a good dude with super fast shipping! :twothumbs

Interesting, I've seen a couple around. Interesting, I've seen a couple around.

Not blowing the money on one now and I'm still unsure I'd be that satisfied with it at 100 lumens. For what it costs, how I'd be using it a fair chunk of the time, that just comes up short unfortunately.

I might be looking to finally get one within a couple months though.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 11-24-2010 09:00 PM GMT

Which brings me to another point, if your so unhappy with the product why do you continue to troll the forum? Go troll the "better made lights" forums and maybe you'll get the answers you seek?

Funny, when there is no answer for a question that wasn't even mine, some resort to using names like "troll." Please. You don't have to like my posts. You do, however, have to refrain from personally attacking me. Questioning why something hasn't been done does not make one a "troll." Funny, when there is no answer for a question that wasn't even mine, some resort to using names like "troll." Please. You don't have to like my posts. You do, however, have to refrain from personally attacking me. Questioning why something hasn't been done does not make one a "troll."

Henry has said before, though not about the XP-G directly, that it's waaaaaay more expensive for him to bring an emitter upgrade to fruition than all the Chinese companies. He's paying American wages and US research and development dollars while Nitecore and the like pay pennies to it's workers. Of course they will beat a small US company to market. To get the right LED picked out, tested, reflector changed, electronics modified, supply chain management in place, vendor contracts negotiated, and marketing completed, Henry might have $600,000 invested....all so he can sell $200,000 worth of that new light over a 2 year period. Sales will be high for the first 4 to 6 months until the newest and bestest LED comes out. Henry will ultimately never even recoup his initial investment. It just doesn't make good business sense for Henry to chase lumens for the lumen-chasing crowd. Instead, he focuses on his core customer. The customer who wants a great beam profile, adequate flood, spill and throw, all wrapped in a light with decent run time.

Again, a Small American company just does not have the assets to chase lumens from new LED's that come to market every year.

That's my one and only rant. I have a Bachelors degree in business, so you should at least entertain my theory, as it has case study and peer reviewed data to back it up.

Entertained. Entertained.

But please answer me this...given your main paragraph above and despite it, how is it that Gene Malkoff and McGizmo and Wayne (all small American companies as far as I know - nothing Chinese there) continue to put put out lights with "...great beam profile, adequate flood, spill and throw..." AND the most updated LEDs?

:thinking:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 11-24-2010 09:04 PM GMT

That sums up my feeling perfectly. I'd love to have an HDS with an XP-G for the beam profile (better for my usage), better runtime and higher lumens, in that order. But among the lights I own, none beats the overall package of my HDS lights and none get used as much.

This is why I bought a 120 and had it modded. Going into it I wasn't expecting the higher lumens I just wanted something slightly warmer than the P4 high CRI and the XP-G R4 was the LED to get the job done. When it came back from Travis I was blown away by the quality of the beam This is why I bought a 120 and had it modded. Going into it I wasn't expecting the higher lumens I just wanted something slightly warmer than the P4 high CRI and the XP-G R4 was the LED to get the job done. When it came back from Travis I was blown away by the quality of the beam and the brightness! I was like, "Holy shite! This thing is brighter than the 170!" It doesn't throw better but it's brighter! Ive owned a high CRI, an 85 TR twisty and I still have the 170 and my modded 120 has an amazing beam IMO. I've posted the beamshots in previous threads. Obviously modding one of these light voids the warranty. But hey! This is CPF and I certainly wouldn't recommend against it! :naughty:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 11-24-2010 09:09 PM GMT

Funny, when there is no answer for a question that wasn't even mine, some resort to using names like "troll." Please. You don't have to like my posts. You do, however, have to refrain from personally attacking me. Questioning why something hasn't been done does not make one a "troll."

I didn't call you a Troll. I said you were trolling. There is a difference. I didn't call you a Troll. I said you were trolling. There is a difference.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by chanjyj on 11-24-2010 09:10 PM GMT

Funny, when there is no answer for a question that wasn't even mine, some resort to using names like "troll." Please. You don't have to like my posts. You do, however, have to refrain from personally attacking me. Questioning why something hasn't been done does not make one a "troll."

Entertained.

But please answer me this...given your main paragraph above and despite it, how is it that Gene Malkoff and McGizmo and Wayne (all small American companies as far as I know - nothing Chinese there) continue to put put out lights with "...great beam profile, adequate flood, spill and throw..." AND the most updated LEDs?

:thinking:

Possibly size of operation for Gene Malkoff, and automation. Possibly size of operation for Gene Malkoff, and automation.

For McGizmo, consider the prices of the lights he sells!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 11-24-2010 09:13 PM GMT

McGizomo is a custom maker anyway! Malkoff mostly produces drop-ins for other light brands. How do those two compare to HDS? :shrug:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 11-24-2010 09:15 PM GMT

I didn't call you a Troll. I said you were trolling. There is a difference.

Semantics? Semantics?

So, one that is "trolling" is not a "troll?"

Whatever.

You should probably stick to telling people how great Henry's current lights are because you use them every day and then post later how you bought one just to mod it to make it brighter.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by HorseFilms on 11-24-2010 09:44 PM GMT

Seriously... we're talking about flashlights. Lighten up, people.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 11-24-2010 09:45 PM GMT

Semantics?

So, one that is "trolling" is not a "troll?"

Whatever.

You should probably stick to telling people how great Henry's current lights are because you use them every day and then post later how you bought one just to mod it to make it brighter.

Go back and read post #545. I'll paraphrase myself, " I was suprised by the brightness but that wasn't my goal going in" HDS lights are great and since I had some extra cash I decided to buy a 3rd so I could experiment with the mod. I'm pleased with the results! So much so I sold my high CRI. Others may not financially be willing to take that risk. YMMV Go back and read post #545. I'll paraphrase myself, " I was suprised by the brightness but that wasn't my goal going in" HDS lights are great and since I had some extra cash I decided to buy a 3rd so I could experiment with the mod. I'm pleased with the results! So much so I sold my high CRI. Others may not financially be willing to take that risk. YMMV


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by flashlight nut on 11-24-2010 09:52 PM GMT

Sorry to interrupt the tone of this thread but I have a technical question. Are the HDS Lights safe to use around flammable vapors or other explosive environments. Sorry if this is obvious from the specs but I do not know much about electronics. Thanks.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Zflashlight on 11-24-2010 09:55 PM GMT

I've been trying to see pictures of the head, it's a bit hard to google them. All kind of threads pop, number 12, 11, .. holly!

I did find a few, and it seems that contrary to what i believed, i does have a pill of sorts. There's a separate part from the body with the LED and electronics. Which is where you guys put the new emitters.

Is that right? Am i seeing it correctly, and does i come off easily?

TIA!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 11-24-2010 10:04 PM GMT

Funny, when there is no answer for a question that wasn't even mine, some resort to using names like "troll." Please. You don't have to like my posts. You do, however, have to refrain from personally attacking me. Questioning why something hasn't been done does not make one a "troll."

Entertained.

But please answer me this...given your main paragraph above and despite it, how is it that Gene Malkoff and McGizmo and Wayne (all small American companies as far as I know - nothing Chinese there) continue to put put out lights with "...great beam profile, adequate flood, spill and throw..." AND the most updated LEDs?

:thinking:

If you're going to compare the guy who sells $65 dropins to the guy who sells $150 flashlights, to the guy who sells $400+ flashlights, I assume you've done your research. So you probably know how many employees each has, what debts and assets each company has, whether or not they have stakeholders (not shareholders) who have a say in new projects. You must have come to the conclusion that it will cost all those companies the same amount of money to bring new products to market. Thank you so much for your insights. I now agree with you. I'm officially off the HDS bandwagon. Henry has been withholding updated technology from me and I won't stand for it any longer. It's time we stood up to the "man". Let him know we won't take this sitting down (I wrote this sitting down). I'm glad you're here Wac. If you're going to compare the guy who sells $65 dropins to the guy who sells $150 flashlights, to the guy who sells $400+ flashlights, I assume you've done your research. So you probably know how many employees each has, what debts and assets each company has, whether or not they have stakeholders (not shareholders) who have a say in new projects. You must have come to the conclusion that it will cost all those companies the same amount of money to bring new products to market. Thank you so much for your insights. I now agree with you. I'm officially off the HDS bandwagon. Henry has been withholding updated technology from me and I won't stand for it any longer. It's time we stood up to the "man". Let him know we won't take this sitting down (I wrote this sitting down). I'm glad you're here Wac.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-24-2010 10:12 PM GMT

Sorry to interrupt the tone of this thread but I have a technical question. Are the HDS Lights safe to use around flammable vapors or other explosive environments. Sorry if this is obvious from the specs but I do not know much about electronics. Thanks.

I don't have an answer to your question, but if I were you, I would be seeking a definitive answer to what is obviously a very important question directly from the manufacturer. You may be given well-meaning but incorrect information here. I suggest an email to HDS is in order. When you do find out, can you please post the answer to your question in this thread. I'm sure that I'm not the only one interested in the answer. :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 11-24-2010 10:16 PM GMT

Sorry to interrupt the tone of this thread but I have a technical question. Are the HDS Lights safe to use around flammable vapors or other explosive environments. Sorry if this is obvious from the specs but I do not know much about electronics. Thanks.

I'm not 100% but I believe Henry has answered this question before and they are but again I'm not sure. Try searching thread # 9, 10 or 11? I'd say try searching the Repository but it hasn't been updated for some time now. I'm not 100% but I believe Henry has answered this question before and they are but again I'm not sure. Try searching thread # 9, 10 or 11? I'd say try searching the Repository but it hasn't been updated for some time now.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 11-24-2010 10:17 PM GMT

If you're going to compare the guy who sells $65 dropins to the guy who sells $150 flashlights, to the guy who sells $400+ flashlights, I assume you've done your research. So you probably know how many employees each has, what debts and assets each company has, whether or not they have stakeholders (not shareholders) who have a say in new projects. You must have come to the conclusion that it will cost all those companies the same amount of money to bring new products to market. Thank you so much for your insights. I now agree with you. I'm officially off the HDS bandwagon. Henry has been withholding updated technology from me and I won't stand for it any longer. It's time we stood up to the "man". Let him know we won't take this sitting down (I wrote this sitting down). I'm glad you're here Wac.

:wave:

Great answer to...well, really no question. Your post is the exact reason why some sing the song and some simply won't. I believe I called it "excuses" in post # 517

I'm glad I'm here as well. :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by foxtrot29 on 11-24-2010 10:18 PM GMT

I don't have it on me atm but it is tight. There are reports of other members with a wider groove which allowed the clip to turn freely but as far as I know that issue is restricted to the standard body. Someone who had this problem posted that the Moddoo clip did not spin in the same light. This leads me to believe that the Moddoo Clip is slightly thicker. I can't recall if it was the SS or Ti version of the Moddoo clip that he had.....

I have the SS Moddoo clip - and my clicky spins freely with both the stock and Moddoo clip. In fact, it seems to spin more freely with the Moddoo clip. Not enough that I could flick it with my finger to make it free spin, but I can easily move it around. I have the SS Moddoo clip - and my clicky spins freely with both the stock and Moddoo clip. In fact, it seems to spin more freely with the Moddoo clip. Not enough that I could flick it with my finger to make it free spin, but I can easily move it around.

Personally, it doesn't bother me THAT MUCH... But it coudl annoy some.

I wonder if it would cause any issues to stick a thin o-ring in there to prevent the spin.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by edc3 on 11-24-2010 10:19 PM GMT

Grunscga,

We have not paid the money to get our lights certified, but we have built them to be intrinsically safe. I have often used mine in explosive atmospheres.

That said, a serious impact with the stainless steel bezel on rock can throw a spark. But you can order the light with an aluminum bezel if you want to eliminate that possibility.

Henry.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...9&postcount=78

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by nbp on 11-24-2010 10:38 PM GMT

Wow, a lot happened in the few hours since I checked in last. :shakehead

I gotta agree with this guy.

Seriously... we're talking about flashlights. Lighten up, people.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by MikeG1P315 on 11-25-2010 12:25 AM GMT

"Lighten up.". Love the (unintended?) pun! :thumbsup:

The only reason I'm interested in any brighter LED in my HDS is so my runtime at my normal EDC max of 85 is longer! Chasing the minimal brightness change from 170 to 220 has no other benefit FOR ME.

I buy an HDS about once every couple years. I usually have two, a narrow and a flood. I've only got my 140 right now, I'll happily pick up a 170t, 220t, or 2000t when I buy next year, and set my max level to...85. :twothumbs:


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by DM51 on 11-25-2010 03:17 AM GMT

wacbzz... I considered editing or deleting your last few posts, which have struck a discordant note with some off-topic and provocative content.

I decided not to do so, for 2 reasons: first, it's quite a time-consuming PITA to delete a series of posts and then have to edit all the quotes out of replies to them.

Second, you have made a point about emitter types, and it is a reasonable point for this thread to discuss. To remove such discussion would look like some form of censorship, which is not what CPF is about.

You will however need to moderate your style, and become less confrontational and provocative. Another member above said your posts were tantamount to trolling; he wasn't too far off the mark. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that trolling was not your intention, but it did to some extent come across that way.

Please consider the effect that strongly expressed views have on others; it's not usually helpful or productive to strike uncompromising attitudes.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-25-2010 04:57 AM GMT

I have the SS Moddoo clip - and my clicky spins freely with both the stock and Moddoo clip. In fact, it seems to spin more freely with the Moddoo clip. Not enough that I could flick it with my finger to make it free spin, but I can easily move it around.

Personally, it doesn't bother me THAT MUCH... But it coudl annoy some.

I wonder if it would cause any issues to stick a thin o-ring in there to prevent the spin.

I imagine that would be the case for most people with this problem. I have no firsthand experience of the spinning clip problem as all my lights clamp the clips tight and I was only relaying what another member had posted. I dont know which version of the Moddoo clip that guy used. I only have the SS version of the Moddoo Clip myself and as far as I can tell without using Vernier calipers, the SS Moddoo is the same thickness as the standard bezel down clip. Perhaps the member in question had the Ti version of the clip and it maybe slightly thicker. :shrug:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by flashlight nut on 11-25-2010 06:07 AM GMT

Thanks for your replies. As usual you guys are very helpful. Another example of why HDS is among the best.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by thermal guy on 11-25-2010 06:24 AM GMT

Boy go away for awhile and were still on the same Q/A on Henery's lights.There in a class by themselves aren't they

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by kaichu dento on 11-25-2010 07:48 AM GMT

Boy go away for awhile and were still on the same Q/A on Henery's lights.There in a class by themselves aren't they

They're pretty good, they are! They're pretty good, they are! :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Barbarian on 11-25-2010 07:55 AM GMT

I think Russ at UniqueTitanium.com has one left still? Plus Russ is a good dude with super fast shipping! :twothumbs

I ordered the last High CRI light Russ had the other night, so he is now sold out. I ordered the last High CRI light Russ had the other night, so he is now sold out.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by thermal guy on 11-25-2010 08:01 AM GMT

From what i here :twothumbs But if you want a real treat i would highly sugest if you already haven't done so is to talk to the man on the phone sometime .Not only is he a genius but a man of many talents.He truly is a treat to chat with "Sorry off topic but true" Oh been out of it for far to long any word on the twisty coming back?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mefistofele86 on 11-25-2010 08:50 AM GMT

I have only one RA clicky, the high CRI. I like this light so much and i'm dying because i would like also the 170T :naughty: (but i can't buy it now..)

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by calipsoii on 11-25-2010 08:52 AM GMT

Hmm, I see wacbzz is back in Pt. 12 of this thread. At least he got his small bezel fixed in Pt. 11 after 6 pages of posts. :sick2:

Oh been out of it for far to long any word on the twisty coming back?

Jury's still out on whether the Twisty will be coming back. V2 shows discontinued Jury's still out on whether the Twisty will be coming back. V2 shows discontinued here but V1 was discontinued before V2 came out, so we may yet see a V3. I'm secretly keeping my fingers crossed for a 240Tr, that would be my dream light. I don't think Osram's ever planning on putting the red indicator LED back in, but maybe Henry can make something else work the same way.

 

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by nbp on 11-25-2010 08:58 AM GMT

From what i here :twothumbs But if you want a real treat i would highly sugest if you already haven't done so is to talk to the man on the phone sometime .Not only is he a genius but a man of many talents.He truly is a treat to chat with "Sorry off topic but true" Oh been out of it for far to long any word on the twisty coming back?

Hey Dancing Badger, Hey Dancing Badger,

Unfortunately the Twisty is done. No more are to be made in the current form. There is a new light in the works but very little is known about it and it could be a year til we see it, so were trying not to get too antsy about it.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 11-25-2010 09:06 AM GMT

Hmm, I see wacbzz is back in Pt. 12 of this thread. At least he got his small bezel fixed in Pt. 11 after 6 pages of posts. :sick2:

You mean the You mean the missing lens? Completely different from "small bezel," whatever that means...

Happy Thanksgiving.

And duly noted, DM51.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by fisk-king on 11-25-2010 09:21 AM GMT

From what i here :twothumbs But if you want a real treat i would highly sugest if you already haven't done so is to talk to the man on the phone sometime .Not only is he a genius but a man of many talents.He truly is a treat to chat with "Sorry off topic but true" Oh been out of it for far to long any word on the twisty coming back?

Hey haven't seen you around these parts in awhile Hey haven't seen you around these parts in awhile :wave:.

Glad you're back.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by thermal guy on 11-25-2010 10:46 AM GMT

Thanks! glad to b back with all u geeks again :twothumbs

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by kaichu dento on 11-25-2010 02:14 PM GMT

Jury's still out on whether the Twisty will be coming back. V2 shows discontinued here but V1 was discontinued before V2 came out, so we may yet see a V3. I'm secretly keeping my fingers crossed for a 240Tr, that would be my dream light. I don't think Osram's ever planning on putting the red indicator LED back in, but maybe Henry can make something else work the same way.

I can't make any predictions, but Henry did say that he was not going to do any more red emitters or Twisty's. If some of you guys are really serious about one or the other I would suggest trying to find more emitters with the tiny red onboard too, and to approach him about how many commitments he'd need to do a run of Twisty's for you. Money talks, and if you presented him with a promised sale of enough I suppose his arm could probably be Twisty'd. I can't make any predictions, but Henry did say that he was not going to do any more red emitters or Twisty's. If some of you guys are really serious about one or the other I would suggest trying to find more emitters with the tiny red onboard too, and to approach him about how many commitments he'd need to do a run of Twisty's for you. Money talks, and if you presented him with a promised sale of enough I suppose his arm could probably be Twisty'd. :thinking:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by scottaw on 11-25-2010 02:53 PM GMT

I want a red option on my clicky. Triple click red? Ill pay right now and wait a year for it.

Quad die led, 1 red, 3 white?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-25-2010 03:01 PM GMT

I have only one RA clicky, the high CRI. I like this light so much and i'm dying because i would like also the 170T :naughty: (but i can't buy it now..)

Hey Mefisto Hey Mefisto :wave:

Just letting you know that I enjoyed your review of the high CRI on our Italian sister site. You really should consider re-writing it in English and posting it on here. Just a suggestion.

Cheers,

Belstaff.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mefistofele86 on 11-25-2010 03:30 PM GMT

Hey Mefisto :wave:

Just letting you know that I enjoyed your review of the high CRI on our Italian sister site. You really should consider re-writing it in English and posting it on here. Just a suggestion.

Cheers,

Belstaff.

I'm honored, really. I didn't think anyone here had read my italian review, i'll surely transalate it, but next week I'm honored, really. I didn't think anyone here had read my italian review, i'll surely transalate it, but next week

Ohhhh i would like to compare with a 170 :naughty:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by shane45_1911 on 11-25-2010 03:30 PM GMT

You really should consider re-writing it in English and posting it on here.

Second that! An HDS CRI is probably next on my "must-have" list, and I would welcome even more opinions on it. Second that! An HDS CRI is probably next on my "must-have" list, and I would welcome even more opinions on it.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-25-2010 03:47 PM GMT

I'm honored, really. I didn't think anyone here had read my italian review, i'll surely transalate it, but next week

Ohhhh i would like to compare with a 170 :naughty:

You didn't think that you were safe just 'coz you're all the way on the other side of the world, did you ? We have spies everywhere !!!

I look forward to your review.

Edit: just a couple of things with your review. Firstly, all HDS Clickys come standard with Ultra-Clear Lens (UCL) and not standard mineral glass as you stated. UCL has a typical Tx rating of 99% wheras mineral glass is around 95%, IIRC. The Sapphire lens is an option and it transmit even less light. I don't know of the exact figure. Maybe <90% ?

Secondly, you wrote (translated by Google) "Option 1) - long-flash (I just do not understand)." This menu option allows you to turn the light on in any of the 4 presets. If you disable it you get the memory function (i.e. the light turns on at the setting it was when you turned it off). If you enable this option, you will "force" it to switch on at the particular preset level that you had it on when you enabled it. Makes sense ?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Barbarian on 11-25-2010 09:04 PM GMT

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mefistofele86 on 11-26-2010 12:45 AM GMT

You didn't think that you were safe just 'coz you're all the way on the other side of the world, did you ? We have spies everywhere !!!

I look forward to your review.

Edit: just a couple of things with your review. Firstly, all HDS Clickys come standard with Ultra-Clear Lens (UCL) and not standard mineral glass as you stated. UCL has a typical Tx rating of 99% wheras mineral glass is around 95%, IIRC. The Sapphire lens is an option and it transmit even less light. I don't know of the exact figure. Maybe <90% ?

Secondly, you wrote (translated by Google) "Option 1) - long-flash (I just do not understand)." This menu option allows you to turn the light on in any of the 4 presets. If you disable it you get the memory function (i.e. the light turns on at the setting it was when you turned it off). If you enable this option, you will "force" it to switch on at the particular preset level that you had it on when you enabled it. Makes sense ?

Thank you Belstaff, i thought UCL was a particular mineral glass Thank you Belstaff, i thought UCL was a particular mineral glass .

Talking about option 1): basically it's enabled, because when i turn on the light it's forced to turn on at the preset level B, right? If i disable it, i i get memory function.

I have a question: why should i use this option if i can program the preset level B as i want? Where is the advantage? The only advantage i see, it's the memory function disabling the option 1) :naughty:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-26-2010 01:09 AM GMT

Thank you Belstaff, i thought UCL was a particular mineral glass .

Talking about option 1): basically it's enabled, because when i turn on the light it's forced to turn on at the preset level B, right? If i disable it, i i get memory function.

I have a question: why should i use this option if i can program the preset level B as i want? Where is the advantage? The only advantage i see, it's the memory function disabling the option 1) :naughty:

Yes, you can change the brightness level of preset B but if you don't have forced/preset enabled the light will turn on at whichever preset it was on last. This is what we refer to as memory. The advantage of enabling forced or Preset is you will always know what preset level the light will always come on at. If you rely on the memory function, you will have to remember to switch the light off at the preset level you would like it to turn on next time you switch it on. This relies on you to remember to plan ahead. For example, if you use the Clicky as a night light to go to late night bathroom trips and you want it to turn on at the lowest setting so it doesn't ruin your night adapted vision, you need to remember to switch the light off at preset D (or whichever of your presets you've programmed to be the lowest) before you go to sleep. If you forget and switch it off when it's on Med-high for example, you will blind yourself on those late night bathroom trips and have trouble going back to sleep. If you enable force/preset, you won't have this problem.

edit: as you have pointed out, you already have forced/preset enabled to come on preset B. If I understand your question, you're suggesting why not just make preset B the low setting and preset D the medium setting. Is that correct ? You can do this if that's what you want, but preset B and C is designed to be your most commonly used presets that's why you can toggle between each with a double-click. The factory default has the most commonly used levels (for most people) in the most accessible preset levels (B & C), and the least used levels in preset A and D which are the "hardest" presets to get to - triple click for D and click + presshold release for A. For executive programming this correspond to Low and Max/Burst. For Tactical programming A=Strobe and D=low. Max/Burst is preset B which is suppose to be the most commonly used or most important level for tactical purposes - LEO's prefer single mode lights 'coz they use Max most of the time.

To summarize, you should set preset B and C to your most commonly used levels for EDC usage, or to the most important levels you need for tactical use. This may be strobe or Burst/Max depending on your usage.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mefistofele86 on 11-26-2010 03:09 AM GMT

Thank you Belstaff, thanks to you i found the bravery to try myself.

It's ways simpler than i thought.

The option 1) allows to force a preset level but leaves unchanged the UI. Normally the option 1) is enabled and the preset level B is forced, so double-clicking the flashlight toggles between preset level B and C.

If i force the preset level A or D, the flashlight continues to toggle preset level B and C.

Therefore the advantage of forcing another preset is that you always know at what level the light will turn on. It's definitely a very usefull option :twothumbs

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-26-2010 03:17 AM GMT

I'm glad that it worked out for you :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Zflashlight on 11-26-2010 09:17 AM GMT

I think my post got lost. Can anyone help me out?

I've been trying to see pictures of the head, it's a bit hard to google them. All kind of threads pop, number 12, 11, .. holly!

I did find a few, and it seems that contrary to what i believed, i does have a pill of sorts. There's a separate part from the body with the LED and electronics. Which is where you guys put the new emitters.

Is that right? Am i seeing it correctly, and does i come off easily?

TIA!

If there's a thread somewhere that i missed, where it is disassembled or something, please tell me where! If there's a thread somewhere that i missed, where it is disassembled or something, please tell me where!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by DM51 on 11-26-2010 09:27 AM GMT

I think my post got lost.

It's post #553 above ( It's post #553 above (link).

Where a quote says:

Originally Posted by Zflashlight>

If you click on the > symbol, it takes you straight there.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 11-26-2010 09:31 AM GMT

What exactly would you like to see? Pics or the head fully disassembled as far as the user can go? I.e...closeup shots of the led? The inner threads of the bezel? The reflector all by itself? Be specific, and I'll either find pics, or take them myself.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 11-26-2010 09:56 AM GMT

Any chance the 2xAA tubes will be ready by Christmas?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by chanjyj on 11-26-2010 11:45 AM GMT

What exactly would you like to see? Pics or the head fully disassembled as far as the user can go? I.e...closeup shots of the led? The inner threads of the bezel? The reflector all by itself? Be specific, and I'll either find pics, or take them myself.

inner threads of bezel, reflector, bezel o rings I posted in part 12 IIRC. inner threads of bezel, reflector, bezel o rings I posted in part 12 IIRC.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 11-26-2010 12:47 PM GMT

inner threads of bezel, reflector, bezel o rings I posted in part 12 IIRC.

well ok then well ok then :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Zflashlight on 11-26-2010 03:35 PM GMT

Sorry, i was logged in, but away from the computer.

@DM51, i meant that it was lost in the discussion

@jslappa, chanjyj, thank you for the pictures! I'm specifically looking for images of whatever is inside the head. Is it a pill, or do you consider it one? (Electronics+LED in one replaceable part) Regardless of any 3rd making pills for it or not, like it happens with the P60's.

I saw a few already, but for someone who never held one, it's difficult to get the whole picture of how the head is assembled. Or i'm just being slow, that does happen at times.. Does it come out easily, say, unscrewing it, or does it have a screw holding it in place, or is it glued. TY!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Patrik on 11-26-2010 04:38 PM GMT

jslappa: The O-ring inside of the bezel, dont recognise it. Have you changed the original one? Looks practical.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-26-2010 05:03 PM GMT

jslappa: The O-ring inside of the bezel, dont recognise it. Have you changed the original one? Looks practical.

It looks stock standard to me.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Patrik on 11-26-2010 05:10 PM GMT

Thanks for the reply. Thats a surprise. Only have one HDS but it has a "regular" o-ring in the bezel, from what I can tell this looks different. I will send Henry an e-mail and ask about this.

Edit: Picture of my o-ring, are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-26-2010 05:19 PM GMT

Thanks for the reply. Thats a surprise. Only have one HDS but it has a "regular" o-ring in the bezel, from what I can tell this looks different. I will send Henry an e-mail and ask about this.

Maybe we're talking about different things. The bezel has flat "O-rings" embedded in the thread and there are two thin rings that go on both the inside and outside face of the lens. The ones in the pics look to be the standard flat "O-rings" to me. I think these are suppose to insulate the outside of the lens from the bezel. The 2 regular O-rings insulate the face. They're not pictured. All 3 surfaces (edge and the 2 faces) of the lens should be insulated. Is that what you were talking about ?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 11-26-2010 05:26 PM GMT

Belstaff is right. You are looking at the inside of a stock 140 Wide beam Clicky. The LED and attached driver are not user removable. It is nothing like a Surefire P60 module that simply drops out of the host.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Patrik on 11-26-2010 05:50 PM GMT

I suppose all have sometime experienced that feeling that, well we arent the smartest ones on occasion? Thats kind of how I feel right about now, this flat o-ring, have not seen it, perhaps it fell out the first time I opened it? I am e-mailing Henry, sure this will be solved. :thumbsup:

Thanks.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-26-2010 06:00 PM GMT

I suppose all have sometime experienced that feeling that, well we arent the smartest ones on occasion? Thats kind of how I feel right about now, this flat o-ring, have not seen it, perhaps it fell out the first time I opened it? I am e-mailing Henry, sure this will be solved. :thumbsup:

Thanks.

I can't see how it could ever fall out. It's wedged in their pretty tight. I can't even pry it loose with my fingernail. If it's not inside your bezel, it must have been missed when the light was assembled.

Don't worry about feeling like a goof......we've all been there. :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by stevenkelby on 11-29-2010 06:36 AM GMT

I might have a stupid question about the clip. Why do they come with a clip that screws on , instead of the clip just fitting between the body parts, like the aftermarket clips? It seems the aftermarket style would be simpler and cheaper, is there a good reason for the stock clip being screwed in?

Thanks,

Steve

 

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 11-30-2010 09:02 PM GMT

I believe there were actually 100 Ti Clickies made. 5 Ti Twisties, as a special order from a few members. I'll have to check out that sale thread, see what she went for.. Also need to update my list of the 5 houses to break into to get one without selling a kidney.

I know that the Ti Clickies went up to serial #10098 & 10099 but I think there's a huge gap from 10050 onwards. I don't think there were actually 100 made.

Ti Twisty up for sale yesterday? What the! Dag Nabbit!!

Yep......Shado beat me to the punch by about 1.5 hours. It was listed at $925 but the deal was done through PM and may have involved a trade. There's a slim chance that it may fall through in which case I'm in like Flynn !!!!

Here's the sales thread.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 11-30-2010 09:52 PM GMT

Yep......Shado beat me to the punch by about 1.5 hours. It was listed at $925 but the deal was done through PM and may have involved a trade. There's a slim chance that it may fall through in which case I'm in like Flynn !!!!

Here's the sales thread.

I just found the thread. Good luck to you. Wouldn't mind seeing the Ti Twisty go to a new HDS enthusiast like you! I hope you score it. I just found the thread. Good luck to you. Wouldn't mind seeing the Ti Twisty go to a new HDS enthusiast like you! I hope you score it.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by shado on 11-30-2010 10:02 PM GMT

I know that the Ti Clickies went up to serial #10098 & 10099 but I think there's a huge gap from 10050 onwards. I don't think there were actually 100 made.

Yep......Shado beat me to the punch by about 1.5 hours. It was listed at $925 but the deal was done through PM and may have involved a trade. There's a slim chance that it may fall through in which case I'm in like Flynn !!!!

Here's the sales thread.

I was the first to talk to Corey, but I passed on the Rare Titanium Twisty. I thought Belstaff1464 bought it when I saw his post? I hope it went to a true HDS collector. I was the first to talk to Corey, but I passed on the Rare Titanium Twisty. I thought Belstaff1464 bought it when I saw his post? I hope it went to a true HDS collector.

Todd


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-01-2010 02:25 AM GMT

I just found the thread. Good luck to you. Wouldn't mind seeing the Ti Twisty go to a new HDS enthusiast like you! I hope you score it.

Thanks Jslappa.....but it looks like my slim chance has now gone down to zero. Sales thread has been updated to SOLD. Thanks Jslappa.....but it looks like my slim chance has now gone down to zero. Sales thread has been updated to SOLD.

I was the first to talk to Corey, but I passed on the Rare Titanium Twisty. I thought Belstaff1464 bought it when I saw his post? I hope it went to a true HDS collector.

Todd

That's very interesting........ That's very interesting........

I wonder who the lucky winner is......


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by the.Mtn.Man on 12-02-2010 07:45 AM GMT

It was listed at $925...

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JoVo on 12-09-2010 05:46 PM GMT

Hey!

I have got a Clicky since last weekend. Is it possible to program it like this?

Single click from off -> Preset B

Momentary long hold from off -> Preset A?

I would like to have strobe as momentary but also medium light by a single click...

Thanks!

Regards,

Jonas


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-09-2010 06:11 PM GMT

AFAIK, the answer is no. I think if you have preset/forced enabled to come on at Preset B, a press hold from off will just give you preset B. To get momentary of preset A you need to do a click + PH. You can program Preset A = Strobe which will give you momentary Strobe by click+PH, but the only way you can get momentary Strobe by doing a PH is by enabling Preset/Forced to come on at the preset that has Strobe.

If you have Preset/Forced disabled, a PH from off will give you momentary of whatever the last level was used before it was switched off and a click+PH will give you Preset A.

edit: My response is under the assumption that you wanted to keep Preset B as is, i.e. low-medium. If you change B to strobe then you will definitely be able to Single click from off -> Preset B and do a PH from off for momentary strobe.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by nbp on 12-10-2010 11:03 PM GMT

If you're still checking in Henry, I got my clicky 140 back today. Thank you for fixing it!

It may not be the most rare or unique of my Ra army, but it was my first and I've got a soft spot for it. Glad to have her back in the EDC rotation. Thanks again. :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wantsusa on 12-10-2010 11:42 PM GMT

hmm I noticed that all of the HDS lights are now out of stock...I hope this mean the new ones are almost ready to start shipping with the new options. I can't wait to see what he has come up with!

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by KDOG on 12-11-2010 04:46 AM GMT

Yup. Thats' ALL I'm waiting for... I got me a 6PX Pro to hold me until the new offerings come out.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mefistofele86 on 12-11-2010 06:53 AM GMT

Very interesting, could we expect more brightness?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wyager on 12-11-2010 10:32 AM GMT

He better finish up in time for christmas!

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by tricker on 12-11-2010 12:22 PM GMT

i wouldn't hold my breath

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Patrik on 12-11-2010 12:30 PM GMT

Not really ALL lights are sold out. 140 and 170 are available as custom options.

Other topic: Does anybody know the runtime for a 170T on lowest, 0,08 lumens?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wantsusa on 12-11-2010 12:47 PM GMT

Check it out more closely...you can't add it to cart

Not really ALL lights are sold out. 140 and 170 are available as custom options.

Other topic: Does anybody know the runtime for a 170T on lowest, 0,08 lumens?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-11-2010 02:18 PM GMT

Oveready is out of HDS stock as well.Unique Titanium seems to have most versions in stock except the high CRI and the 170T.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by guardpost3 on 12-11-2010 04:44 PM GMT

GoingGear still has some stock, but not much.

120T: 3 in stock

170T: 3 in stock

120E: 3 in stock

140E: 4 in stock


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-11-2010 05:06 PM GMT

From the sounds of things, these remaining Executive models with the wider beam (SSC) will be it. Once they're gone all that will differentiate the Execs from the Tacticals will be the bezel colour, switch button, and default programming.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by AILL on 12-11-2010 05:34 PM GMT

http://shop.dkrsolutions.com/lampen/

DKR Solutions still has stock of some models, even high-CRI (!)

Andreas


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-11-2010 05:36 PM GMT

Hopefully this "out of stock" situation is indicative of HDS lights moving into the present as far as emitters go. Let's hope there is no rehash of the stuff everyone already has...

As such, I have PP ready for a new HDS light that is 200 true OTF lumens with an XP-G or better emitter. The money will stay in my account if there is anything short of that. Different colored bezels and different programming won't change my mind.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by stoli67 on 12-11-2010 05:49 PM GMT

Perhaps the cerakoted ones when they eventually materialise will have a new emitter !

Andrew


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 12-11-2010 06:11 PM GMT

It even shows the IR as being out of stock. Looks to me like he turned them all off for a reason....like maye he is adding new emitter options. Exciting! Hopefully he will have enough stock to last a month or so. Im all tapped out

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-11-2010 06:14 PM GMT



Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wyager on 12-11-2010 08:08 PM GMT

Worst case: Out of business.

Best case: Awesome hardware upgrades.

Here's to hoping for an AA based light with the latest S series emitters (or at least R5)! 4Sevens even managed to get some S3s, so I'm sure S2 can't be all that hard to get, especially if the price increase probably won't decrease sales much.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wantsusa on 12-11-2010 08:16 PM GMT

Ok I highly doubt there will be S2's...he wouldn't go with the color I am sure! Maybe with the R5 he could use it as they now have NW, High CRI etc so he can build consistently using the XP-G emitter which now has been proven to be a decent emitter.

He better not have won the lottery and closed business...I don't have a clicky yet! Only the 19670 High cri twisty! I see UniqueTitanium has the 2AA it looks like posted on their website...so I assume he isn't out of business =)

Probably just allowing enough time to allow his dealers to get rid of excess stock before bringing out some new bling, cerakoted, and maybe a new emitter.

Worst case: Out of business.

Best case: Awesome hardware upgrades.

Here's to hoping for an AA based light with the latest S series emitters (or at least R5)! 4Sevens even managed to get some S3s, so I'm sure S2 can't be all that hard to get, especially if the price increase probably won't decrease sales much.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-11-2010 08:23 PM GMT

Worst case: Out of business.

...

Man, I can now envision all the weeping and gnashing of teeth that would commence on this forum if that were to take place. Man, I can now envision all the weeping and gnashing of teeth that would commence on this forum if that were to take place.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Bullzeyebill on 12-11-2010 08:25 PM GMT

Worst case: Out of business.

LOL. LOL.

Bill


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 12-11-2010 09:26 PM GMT

1AA Clicky...NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Can we please move on from that! Who said UniqueTi had 2xAA tubes in stock? I didn't get my notification and the site still says they are awaiting delivery like it has since Sept.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wyager on 12-11-2010 09:59 PM GMT

1AA Clicky...NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Can we please move on from that! Who said UniqueTi had 2xAA tubes in stock? I didn't get my notification and the site still says they are awaiting delivery like it has since Sept.

I'm not so sure... there's a BIG demand for such a product. My guess is that henry will just increase the usable voltage range a little, as his existing driver tech already works below a volt (I think). Sort of like a Quark. I'm not so sure... there's a BIG demand for such a product. My guess is that henry will just increase the usable voltage range a little, as his existing driver tech already works below a volt (I think). Sort of like a Quark.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by nbp on 12-12-2010 12:12 AM GMT

1AA Clicky...NOT GONNA HAPPEN! Can we please move on from that! Who said UniqueTi had 2xAA tubes in stock? I didn't get my notification and the site still says they are awaiting delivery like it has since Sept.

Thank you Jason! Thank you Jason!

Henry told us the 1AA is not in the works! The low stock may or may not mean there is some upgrade coming out soon, but one thing is 100% guaranteed: it is NOT indicative of the release of a 1AA clicky! Get that through your skulls.

 

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 12-12-2010 07:52 AM GMT

Right, if Henry were to say, "I'm not disclosing whether or not I'm building a 1xAA!" Then the speculation could have merit. But since Henry said and I paraphrase "there are no plans for a 1xAA light" it pretty much means no 1xAA light!

Hey Nick, Peter hooked me up! :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by carrot on 12-12-2010 11:09 AM GMT

Right, if Henry were to say, "I'm not disclosing whether or not I'm building a 1xAA!" Then the speculation could have merit. But since Henry said and I paraphrase "there are no plans for a 1xAA light" it pretty much means no 1xAA light!

Steve Jobs said there are no plans for an iPhone, not long before he officially announced the iPhone, so maybe Henry is taking a page out of Steve's play book. Steve Jobs said there are no plans for an iPhone, not long before he officially announced the iPhone, so maybe Henry is taking a page out of Steve's play book.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by carrot on 12-12-2010 11:10 AM GMT

Double...

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-12-2010 11:19 AM GMT

I too don't think there's going to be a single AA HDS light but I would love to see one downsized HDS clicky using a single AA. One could always dream can't I?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 12-12-2010 12:21 PM GMT

Dream on my friend! No one can take that away from you!

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by kaichu dento on 12-12-2010 12:43 PM GMT

Henry told us the 1AA is not in the works! The low stock may or may not mean there is some upgrade coming out soon, but one thing is 100% guaranteed: it is NOT indicative of the release of a 1AA clicky! Get that through your skulls.

I'm another who would buy a AA Clicky immediately upon release, but Henry has firmly stated that it won't be happening, which to me means that until he sees a compelling enough reason to do so, we'll just have to wait. I'm another who would buy a AA Clicky immediately upon release, but Henry has firmly stated that it won't be happening, which to me means that until he sees a compelling enough reason to do so, we'll just have to wait.

What better reason could there be for lack of Henry's lights than the new UI which he has been carrying for months?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by John N on 12-12-2010 01:03 PM GMT

Keep in mind part of the big benefit of the HDS lights is the power supply, and it currently isn't optimal for <3v. This means he would probably have to redesign it, instead of tweak it. Consider the demand for his existing lights, it probably makes a lot more sense he keeps making incremental changes and improvements bases upon his existing components.

Not only that, but the single AA market is dominated by inexpensive lights. HDS isn't going to be able to compete well at the low end, and not many are going to buy expensive single AA lights.

Basically, I think a single AA light from HDS is unlikely anytime soon.

I just want to get back to the older, wider input range so we can see a light with 1 or 2x123a cells, 1x18650 or 2xAA and a battery compartment that can handle 2x123a or 1x18650. That, and a newer emitter like the XP-G R5.

I'd also like to see a twisty based on the same power supply, but even that seems semi unlikely these days.

-john


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Bucky on 12-12-2010 03:32 PM GMT

All versions of the Executive, Tactical, and Custom-built currently say "Out of stock" so we should be seeing something new very soon...

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wyager on 12-12-2010 04:13 PM GMT

Keep in mind part of the big benefit of the HDS lights is the power supply, and it currently isn't optimal for <3v.

Well, technically the light will work with no modification all the way down to 1.8v (probably because this is the minimum rated operating voltage of an Atmel ATTiny microcontroller), but with some small modification I would think that it could work even lower. I remember reading some patent Henry published about his PWM based boosting power supply, and I would think that it could easily boost from below 1v up to operating voltage for the microcontroller with low parasitic drain. Well, technically the light will work with no modification all the way down to 1.8v (probably because this is the minimum rated operating voltage of an Atmel ATTiny microcontroller), but with some small modification I would think that it could work even lower. I remember reading some patent Henry published about his PWM based boosting power supply, and I would think that it could easily boost from below 1v up to operating voltage for the microcontroller with low parasitic drain.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Jeff S. on 12-12-2010 05:24 PM GMT

Out of curiosity, has anybody emailed Henry about the inability to purchase lights from his website? I was thinking of doing so myself, but don't want to inundate him with emails if others are asking the same question...

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-12-2010 05:42 PM GMT

Well, technically the light will work with no modification all the way down to 1.8v (probably because this is the minimum rated operating voltage of an Atmel ATTiny microcontroller), but with some small modification I would think that it could work even lower. I remember reading some patent Henry published about his PWM based boosting power supply, and I would think that it could easily boost from below 1v up to operating voltage for the microcontroller with low parasitic drain.

So what you're saying is that the current driver won't take much modification to make it compatible with AA batteries. That's the best news I've heard in a while !!!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wyager on 12-12-2010 07:35 PM GMT

Well, "I would think". Of course, Henry is the expert...


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Coyote302 on 12-13-2010 12:05 AM GMT

Just want to report that I received my High CRI Twisty that was a topic in another thread. There was a mix up at Battery Station and I originally received a 140 instead of the High CRI. Evidently Henry had enough parts to make one more to fill the order but was that it. Thanks again to Battery Station and HDS for the great service. The threads on the Twisty feel a little weird (like they are extra tight at one point in the rotation) but the beam matches my High CRI Clicky so I am pretty happy. I'll probably have some questions later after I use if more.

Regarding the low stock - A week or so ago Battery Station had informed me that the light should be shipping soon but I hadn't seen anything so I called HDS. I nice man who I assumed to be Henry answered the phone and we had a brief conversation. When I prompted him with a comment about the chatter on the boards regarding the lack of stock, he responded with something along the lines of "we are changing over production runs and should have some good stuff coming out soon..." I normally wouldn't have posted something like that but it doesn't seem like there are really any possible sales to hurt right now. If anyone is on the fence, I recommend they do what I did, buy one now if you can find something you like and then be happy again when something better comes out.

-Rich


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-13-2010 12:21 AM GMT

Just want to report that I received my High CRI Twisty that was a topic in another thread. There was a mix up at Battery Station and I originally received a 140 instead of the High CRI. Evidently Henry had enough parts to make one more to fill the order but was that it. Thanks again to Battery Station and HDS for the great service. The threads on the Twisty feel a little weird (like they are extra tight at one point in the rotation) but the beam matches my High CRI Clicky so I am pretty happy. I'll probably have some questions later after I use if more.

Regarding the low stock - A week or so ago Battery Station had informed me that the light should be shipping soon but I hadn't seen anything so I called HDS. I nice man who I assumed to be Henry answered the phone and we had a brief conversation. When I prompted him with a comment about the chatter on the boards regarding the lack of stock, he responded with something along the lines of "we are changing over production runs and should have some good stuff coming out soon..." I normally wouldn't have posted something like that but it doesn't seem like there are really any possible sales to hurt right now. If anyone is on the fence, I recommend they do what I did, buy one now if you can find something you like and then be happy again when something better comes out.

-Rich

Thanks for sharing this titbit of info, and glad to hear of your positive outcome. :thumbsup: Your news trumps Wyager's !!!



Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jiuong on 12-13-2010 01:07 AM GMT

Well, that basically confirm what I suspected.

And now for the short wait before Henry surprises us with the new stuff. :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-13-2010 01:08 AM GMT

Well, if there's going to be something new, please let it happen soon. The limited funds in my PayPal are begging me for their release. I am often tempted to purchase something else like maybe the Quark limited edition titanium with satin finish 123^2 turbo but am trying desperately to hold back just for a new HDS. Please Henry, when?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by HIDblue on 12-14-2010 07:36 PM GMT

And now for the short wait before Henry surprises us with the new stuff. :thumbsup:

and now the waiting begins....

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Patrik on 12-14-2010 08:15 PM GMT

I stand corrected when I earlier said that not all clickies was out of stock at the HDS site.

Oh my... this waiting could result in me sleeping in front of the computer, neglecting everuthing else. No not really but this is very exiting, waiting on the Maelstrom S1200 and what Henry has been up to.

Money put aside for S1200 and... perhaps an updated HDS clickie? :wave: And to those with problem spending the money on something else meanwhile. DONT. :naughty:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by MikeG1P315 on 12-15-2010 02:07 PM GMT

Wooooossshhhhh.

That's the sound of me exhaling after holding my breath for news. :huh:

Here's hoping someone hears / posts something interesting soon... Its almost 12/15... new HDS would be a fantastic Christmas present, even if I have to wait until next year to buy one. :wave:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by tricker on 12-15-2010 09:22 PM GMT

here come the crees :naughty:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-15-2010 09:45 PM GMT

here come the crees :naughty:

I hope you're right !


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by russtang on 12-15-2010 10:13 PM GMT

I believe there are two chances for a AA HDS/Ra light...

slim and none, lol.

Never say never but Henry has posted a couple of times in the past as to why it just isn't going to happen.

As for the new model :naughty:... I would love to tell what little I know about it but I would get in trouble with Henry .

I am patiently waiting also. I haven't bought myself a light in quite a while and a new HDS will be a good fix.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-15-2010 10:29 PM GMT

I believe there are two chances for a AA HDS/Ra light...

slim and none, lol.

Never say never but Henry has posted a couple of times in the past as to why it just isn't going to happen.

As for the new model :naughty:... I would love to tell what little I know about it but I would get in trouble with Henry .

I am patiently waiting also. I haven't bought myself a light in quite a while and a new HDS will be a good fix.

Thanks for confirming that a new model IS on the way !!!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Illumination on 12-15-2010 11:29 PM GMT

All versions of the Executive, Tactical, and Custom-built currently say "Out of stock" so we should be seeing something new very soon...

yikes! yikes!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Curias on 12-15-2010 11:50 PM GMT

here come the crees :naughty:

I really hope you're right too. HDS + Cree, could it get any better? I really hope you're right too. HDS + Cree, could it get any better?

However, given the lineage, I'm sure whatever is released will be fantastic.

I just can't imagine anything other than a Cree at this point in time.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-16-2010 02:52 AM GMT

Whatever it is Henry is coming up with next would definitely be something worth acquiring. My favorite purchase was and is still my HDS clicky.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by cerbie on 12-16-2010 08:11 AM GMT

I just can't imagine anything other than a Cree at this point in time.

What about Nichia? What about Nichia?

Though, it's all probably just regular end-of-year inventory clearance that's going on, ATM.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Sgt. LED on 12-16-2010 10:54 AM GMT

I have an xp-e and an xp-g Ra clicky and they are great!

I don't care for either of the stock option LED's really.

Perhaps we wil see the newest Cree used next? Ah anyway I'm only interested in getting a 2XAA tube now.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by calipsoii on 12-16-2010 11:13 AM GMT

and now the waiting begins....

My friend, the waiting began months ago. My friend, the waiting began months ago.

I wonder if we'll actually see the new light soon or if by "switching production runs" he's just talking about the Cerakote options HDS will be offering soon.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by bmcgators98 on 12-16-2010 11:31 AM GMT

Some idle conversation while we wait. (I think we have two more weeks, probably a 2011 announcement. New Year. new light IMHO)
I wonder what percentage of HDS sales are driven from CPF. I have been into flashlights for years but only recently found CPF. Before this I knew of Mag, Surefire, and Streamlight that is it. Basically what they sold at Cabalas or advertized in outdoor magazines. I never heard about HDS until I came here. Does anyone know of people unfamiliar with this site buying HDS lights? How would they find them or even their dealers? Has anyone ever seen an ad?
It is a great market strategy if that was the intention. Henry has a great captive customer waiting on pins and needle with little or no money invested in an advertizing campaign.

 

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by KDOG on 12-17-2010 07:10 AM GMT

I'm REALLY having a hard time going without my Ra! I had a 170T but sold it in anticipation of the new lights. That FM54 beam shaper is really nice! When I get a new Ra I will be picking up one of those too!

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-17-2010 07:35 AM GMT

I'm REALLY having a hard time going without my Ra! I had a 170T but sold it in anticipation of the new lights. That FM54 beam shaper is really nice! When I get a new Ra I will be picking up one of those too!

Talk about selling. I might as well sell my 140 guaranteed tint. Hardly get a chance to use it since I am always EDCing my 170T for urban usage and 100 high CRI when camping outdoors. And I am not so much a collector. Yes I collect lights but I also make sure I collect lights which sees much use. Talk about selling. I might as well sell my 140 guaranteed tint. Hardly get a chance to use it since I am always EDCing my 170T for urban usage and 100 high CRI when camping outdoors. And I am not so much a collector. Yes I collect lights but I also make sure I collect lights which sees much use.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by bmcgators98 on 12-17-2010 07:48 AM GMT

Yes I collect lights but I also make sure I collect lights which sees much use.

I am in the same boat. I love flashlights but try and keep my total collection down to 4 or 5 lights. More than that I can't use them enough. There is no satifaction for me to own a light, only in being able to use it. I am in the same boat. I love flashlights but try and keep my total collection down to 4 or 5 lights. More than that I can't use them enough. There is no satifaction for me to own a light, only in being able to use it.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mefistofele86 on 12-17-2010 08:24 AM GMT

Hi guys, what do you think about brightness of new models? I have the high CRI clicky and i'm very happy with it. So i would like to buy in future the most powerfull hds light. Will we see a 200-250 lumens version? Obviously these are your thoughts ;-)

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-17-2010 08:50 AM GMT

Hi guys, what do you think about brightness of new models? I have the high CRI clicky and i'm very happy with it. So i would like to buy in future the most powerfull hds light. Will we see a 200-250 lumens version? Obviously these are your thoughts ;-)

That depends on what emitter Henry chooses to use in the lights. And don't forget the run time and lowest low output. There is no point having the light achieve 250 lumen but sacrificing run time and very low low output. Right now as it is, I love the 0.07 and 0.08 lumen on my clickies and it would be a real shame to see these output go away in order to make the clickies generate 250 lumen on high. That depends on what emitter Henry chooses to use in the lights. And don't forget the run time and lowest low output. There is no point having the light achieve 250 lumen but sacrificing run time and very low low output. Right now as it is, I love the 0.07 and 0.08 lumen on my clickies and it would be a real shame to see these output go away in order to make the clickies generate 250 lumen on high.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mefistofele86 on 12-17-2010 09:05 AM GMT

I love too the low low level and i hope to have it also in new HDS lights, but i would like to have (for example) 170 lumens for at least 1h and maybe a burst of 220-230 lumens. I don't need all this brightness because i use the most the 35 lumens level but with such a power i'm sure the runtime will increase at lower levels

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-17-2010 09:20 AM GMT

...but i would like to have (for example) 170 lumens for at least 1h and maybe a burst of 220-230 lumens.

Who wouldn't want that? I know I am in for it if that is possible but I or we should just leave it to Henry. He knows what's best for his lights. Happy waiting! Who wouldn't want that? I know I am in for it if that is possible but I or we should just leave it to Henry. He knows what's best for his lights. Happy waiting!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-17-2010 09:20 AM GMT

I was watchingthis video on youtube and basically wanted to know where to get different pocket clips for these lights. Ive checked HDS no pics but assume its only the supplied clip, Tried lighthound and lightjunction too. Cant find a clip I like.

I prefer a bezel down clip.

Anybody help a brother out?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by SuperTrouper on 12-17-2010 09:43 AM GMT

Oveready.com have bezel down after market clips compatible with Hds lights

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Krotchitty on 12-17-2010 10:09 AM GMT

I'm curious why this notion of new lights keeps popping up here. I am aware of the 2AA tube (not a new light), and I am aware of the discontinued twisty, but has Henry actually given any indication that he is developing a new twisty, a new clicky, or pondering the use of any other emitter for the current clicky? It seems the clicky platform (SSC and GDP emitters) is very well thought out, very well sorted, and very well loved. Other than the obvious brightness/efficiency factors of newer emitters, is there anything other than wishful thinking that keeps these "new" discussions on the table?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-17-2010 10:38 AM GMT

Oveready.com have bezel down after market clips compatible with Hds lights

Yeah I checked them just after my post. I was more looking for the clip in the video. Its a full length clip which would mean the light rides super low in the pocket. I was hoping for one using the two screw holes type job. Cheers for the reply though. Yeah I checked them just after my post. I was more looking for the clip in the video. Its a full length clip which would mean the light rides super low in the pocket. I was hoping for one using the two screw holes type job. Cheers for the reply though.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wantsusa on 12-17-2010 11:29 AM GMT

I think I remember seeing something on the forum from Henry about a new UI, though that was a ways off and not likely for a long time. That and the fact that he is either just getting rid of the old inventory and ready for the new inventory after the start of the new year for tax purposes..or maybe adding something else, besides just the 2xAA. Plus I think we all like to speculate and hope that something new is just around the corner =)

I can't understand why he would try to have all his dealers sell out their inventory, unless there is something new coming out though since I would think it would be cost efficient to continue to produce and sell the standard flashlights he had been selling.

I'm curious why this notion of new lights keeps popping up here. I am aware of the 2AA tube (not a new light), and I am aware of the discontinued twisty, but has Henry actually given any indication that he is developing a new twisty, a new clicky, or pondering the use of any other emitter for the current clicky? It seems the clicky platform (SSC and GDP emitters) is very well thought out, very well sorted, and very well loved. Other than the obvious brightness/efficiency factors of newer emitters, is there anything other than wishful thinking that keeps these "new" discussions on the table?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by John_Galt on 12-17-2010 03:46 PM GMT

Hi guys, what do you think about brightness of new models? I have the high CRI clicky and i'm very happy with it. So i would like to buy in future the most powerfull hds light. Will we see a 200-250 lumens version? Obviously these are your thoughts ;-)

Truthfully, I see Henry going either way with this one.

He could choose to keep the current output levels, and drastically increase run times, or he could choose to keep the minimum run time levels the same, and increase output.

Either of these would be a good choice, depending upon the demands of the largest customer base.

If he sells mostly (by volume) through contracts to any of the US Gov'ts alphabet soup people, including the armed forces, and they are satisfied with the current run times, but want more light, he may choose to increase output. On the flip side, if most of his buyers are specialty, high risk people, ie cavers, and want the same output and more run time, then he may choose to lower all of the drive levels, and increase/double/triple the run time.

Truthfully, I think the best bet is to go with a middle path: increasing output where possible, but also increasing run times. As we all know, the lights can be programmed for lower outputs and longer run times if the situation requires it.

All I can say is: if Henry goes for more output (ie: an additional 100lumens, with the same or better run time [say 1:30 minimum, instead of an hour]) I can see the marketplace seeing a major upswing in the selling of HDS lights. People will want the latest greatest, and, of course, more output, so people who had been putting off a purchase because of the higher prices, but are satisfied with the output currently offered may well be able to scoop up some nice deals.

My $0.02


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-17-2010 04:38 PM GMT

I GOT MY CLICKY!!!!!!!

I actually love it. Really nice quality. Think ill leave the setting as they are until I have had it a while. Thanks for the recommendations though well worth it.

Congrats and you're welcome !! :thumbsup:

Next you'll be looking for the high CRI !!

Hi guys, what do you think about brightness of new models? I have the high CRI clicky and i'm very happy with it. So i would like to buy in future the most powerfull hds light. Will we see a 200-250 lumens version? Obviously these are your thoughts ;-)

Henry has been using a logarithmic scale with a 1.4 multiplier for his outputs, so if there is going to be an emitter upgrade and subsequent increase in output, we should see the 170 leap to at least 240, the 140 to at least 195, and the high CRI to 140 or 196. If he can get the output levels of the high CRI to 196 or greater, I would imagine that it could make some of the other models obsolete. Of course it will all depend on the price of each version.

Does anyone know what the CRI rating and expected output of the CREE high CRI emitters are ?

I was watching this video on youtube and basically wanted to know where to get different pocket clips for these lights. Ive checked HDS no pics but assume its only the supplied clip, Tried lighthound and lightjunction too. Cant find a clip I like.

I prefer a bezel down clip.

Anybody help a brother out?

Unless they've just run out, Unique Titanium has the MOLLE bezel up clip in stock. Also, wvaltakis2 has a sales thread for Ti up/down clips in the Customs B/S/T section but he doesn't seem to be selling them anymore. He hasn't replied to my numerous PM's.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-17-2010 04:40 PM GMT

double post due to server problems

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-17-2010 04:41 PM GMT

Bloody iPhone !!!!

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-17-2010 05:48 PM GMT

Bloody iPhone !!!!

Need a real phone like a Nokia E72!!! Need a real phone like a Nokia E72!!!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-17-2010 05:52 PM GMT

Congrats and you're welcome !! :thumbsup:

Next you'll be looking for the high CRI !!

Unless they've just run out, Unique Titanium has the MOLLE bezel up clip in stock. Also, wvaltakis2 has a sales thread for Ti up/down clips in the Customs B/S/T section but he doesn't seem to be selling them anymore. He hasn't replied to my numerous PM's.

I think the High CRI will possibly have to wait until I get a better paying job. I really want to get the Clip in the youtube video by goinggear. I might have to drop them an email. I dont like the supplied clip that much its a waste to have the holes in the light and not use it. I think the High CRI will possibly have to wait until I get a better paying job. I really want to get the Clip in the youtube video by goinggear. I might have to drop them an email. I dont like the supplied clip that much its a waste to have the holes in the light and not use it.

Love the light though great quality.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by gunga on 12-17-2010 05:58 PM GMT

Which clip did you get? The current bezel down clip? Are you after the big bezel up clip? If your clicky has the new hole spacing, you can't use that clip.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-17-2010 06:04 PM GMT

Which clip did you get? The current bezel down clip? Are you after the big bezel up clip? If your clicky has the new hole spacing, you can't use that clip.

Hi Gunga I have a new version (Got it today) with the 100 odd degree spacing. I found a thread in Custom BST thanks to Belstaff1464 again... Its exactly what im looking for. Very deep carry and uses the spacer holes. Hi Gunga I have a new version (Got it today) with the 100 odd degree spacing. I found a thread in Custom BST thanks to Belstaff1464 again... Its exactly what im looking for. Very deep carry and uses the spacer holes.

With the Bezel down clip supplied.

P.s Thank for the LF2XT I bought ages ago its the BOMB!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-17-2010 06:09 PM GMT

Need a real phone like a Nokia E72!!!

Actually, I think it was an issue with the server. Besides.................everyone knows the iPhone is cooler !!!

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-17-2010 06:17 PM GMT

Actually, I think it was an issue with the server. Besides.................everyone knows the iPhone is cooler !!!

Maybe if your a 12 year old teenage girl. The E72 screams class.... Much like the HDS lights (Keeping it on topic there) Maybe if your a 12 year old teenage girl. The E72 screams class.... Much like the HDS lights (Keeping it on topic there)


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 12-17-2010 06:20 PM GMT

Oh geese, let's not battle phones! Everyone knows the iPhone is better than an E72. You could have at least said Nokia N8, Droid X or possibly the Droid Pro World Phone. At least then you'd be on a position to battle the iPhone 4!

Now come on and release those 2xAA bodies Henry. If they will be in short supply initially, you might as well sell them directly through your site first.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-17-2010 06:23 PM GMT

Oh geese, let's not battle phones! Everyone knows the iPhone is better than an E72. You could have at least said Nokia N8, Droid X or possibly the Droid Pro World Phone. At least then you'd be on a position to battle the iPhone 4!

Now come on and release those 2xAA bodies Henry. If they will be in short supply initially, you might as well sell them directly through your site first.

I beg to differ! I beg to differ!

Anywho.... I think he should sell them directly through this thread first.....


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by gunga on 12-17-2010 06:30 PM GMT

He he he. Glad you like the LF2XT. Funny, I wanted to get another bezel down clip myself. I have too many bezel up ones, too bad we can't swap.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-17-2010 06:34 PM GMT

He he he. Glad you like the LF2XT. Funny, I wanted to get another bezel down clip myself. I have too many bezel up ones, too bad we can't swap.

I have the one that just slots into the body. Just the half length type one. PM me if your interested ill see if I can hook you up. Your choice. I have the one that just slots into the body. Just the half length type one. PM me if your interested ill see if I can hook you up. Your choice.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by stevenkelby on 12-17-2010 07:39 PM GMT

If anyone can hook me up I'd love a deep carry bezel down clip to suit my newly acquired HDS lights, HCRI and 170

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-17-2010 07:46 PM GMT

Hopefully, the 2xAA tubes will be sold elsewhere than the HDS website. $15 shipping to anywhere ConUS for the weight of that tube is simply mind numbingly bizarre...

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-17-2010 08:15 PM GMT

Hopefully, the 2xAA tubes will be sold elsewhere than the HDS website. $15 shipping to anywhere ConUS for the weight of that tube is simply mind numbingly bizarre...

Unique Titanium already have it in their HDS page. They have free US shipping for orders over $99 and very reasonable international shipping.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by tricker on 12-17-2010 08:22 PM GMT

I'm curious why this notion of new lights keeps popping up here. I am aware of the 2AA tube (not a new light), and I am aware of the discontinued twisty, but has Henry actually given any indication that he is developing a new twisty, a new clicky, or pondering the use of any other emitter for the current clicky? It seems the clicky platform (SSC and GDP emitters) is very well thought out, very well sorted, and very well loved. Other than the obvious brightness/efficiency factors of newer emitters, is there anything other than wishful thinking that keeps these "new" discussions on the table?

because now cree is head and shoulders about comparable SSC and GDP emmiters, which wasn't so at the onset

 

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-17-2010 08:23 PM GMT

Unique Titanium already have it in their HDS page. They have free US shipping for orders over $99 and very reasonable international shipping.

Yeah, I've been on the waiting list there just about since Russ put it on up on the site. Yeah, I've been on the waiting list there just about since Russ put it on up on the site.

I mean, I'm not trying to cause an uproar, but $15?? :shrug:

I purchase my coffee from Kona Earth and here's just one of the reasons why.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Jeff91 on 12-18-2010 02:27 AM GMT

I've had my 170 Tactical for a few weeks now and I'm really liking it! The size is really nice, small enough that I don't notice it very much but it's still big enough to get a good grip on it. Also the thing is built like a tank, I haven't been babying mine when I use it at work and its holding up like a champ!!!

I cant wait to see if Henry comes up with something new...I could use a backup

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by cave dave on 12-18-2010 07:41 AM GMT

I mean, I'm not trying to cause an uproar, but $15?? :shrug:

Most manufactures don't want to be in the business of competing with their dealers, nor do they want to take time out of develpment and production for shipping stuff. I think HDS is pretty much a one man show and the $15 shipping is to encourage you to buy from a dealer. HDS website has the dealer links. Most manufactures don't want to be in the business of competing with their dealers, nor do they want to take time out of develpment and production for shipping stuff. I think HDS is pretty much a one man show and the $15 shipping is to encourage you to buy from a dealer. HDS website has the dealer links.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by AILL on 12-18-2010 09:15 AM GMT

Most manufactures don't want to be in the business of competing with their dealers, nor do they want to take time out of develpment and production for shipping stuff. [...]

Correct. Correct.

I remember the time when I attended University and worked in the summer holidays in the local brewery and we carried out the beer to supermarkets, bars and restaurants.

Of course you could buy the beer also directly in the brewery but the price was always a little higher than in the supermarket. I absolutely agree that manufacturers don't want to make competition to their dealers.

Andreas


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-18-2010 09:46 AM GMT

Makes sense about the manufacturer/dealer conflict. Especially if one can purchase anything they want want from any of the stand alone dealers.

Do you guys know what dealer I can order a sapphire lens from?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mikeymoto on 12-19-2010 01:38 AM GMT

I have a GT twisty that's wearing the 17670 tube, and I'm having a problem. I'm using protected AW 18650 cells. If I fully charge a cell then put it in the light it works fine. Set the flashlight on my desk. Next day, works fine; couple days later, still works fine. Mind you I'm turning it back off plus an extra turn or so from off after each check. If I come back about a week later it will fail to turn on. I twist it all the way tight and there's no light. If I remove the cell and wait a minute or so, then put the same cell back in, the light works again. What could this be?

On another note, I see the AA tubes are available on Henry's site. I just put in an order in the hopes they're still available.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-19-2010 01:51 AM GMT

I have a GT twisty that's wearing the 17670 tube, and I'm having a problem. I'm using protected AW 18650 cells. If I fully charge a cell then put it in the light it works fine. Set the flashlight on my desk. Next day, works fine; couple days later, still works fine. Mind you I'm turning it back off plus an extra turn or so from off after each check. If I come back about a week later it will fail to turn on. I twist it all the way tight and there's no light. If I remove the cell and wait a minute or so, then put the same cell back in, the light works again. What could this be?

On another note, I see the AA tubes are available on Henry's site. I just put in an order in the hopes they're still available.

What type of 18650's are you using ? HDS lights won't work with Lithium-Iron Phosphate cells (LiFePO4). They have a nominal voltage of 3.2V and a fully charged voltage of 3.6V.

EDIT: Sorry.....I've noticed that you said protected AW cells. Disregard my post.

It could be a case of a slow parasitic drain and when you remove the cell, it recovers a bit and the voltage increases. Have you tried leaving it alone with a full cell for a few days and then measuring the voltage ?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mikeymoto on 12-19-2010 01:57 AM GMT

No I should try that. I was just messing with the light and it did something else weird.

I opened the battery compartment and wiped the upper lip of the battery tube, thinking there might be grease there. I put the tube back on, the light lit indicating a battery with charge is detected. I turned it on to low for about 10 seconds, all good. Turned it up to medium about 10 seconds, all good. About .5 second after I then turned it to high it turned off. But then it started flashing slowly like

. . . - . - . -

It did that several times then shut down. It's late but I'll check the battery voltage tomorrow.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-19-2010 03:40 AM GMT

I'm not that familiar with the Twisty. I've only got the one (85Tr) and it hasn't skipped a beat. Have you tried doing a factory reset ?

Oh...and thanks for letting us know about the 2 x AA tubes. I won't be getting one but there are a lot of people waiting that have been eagerly anticpating its release.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by cave dave on 12-19-2010 09:51 AM GMT

Always test the battery voltage when you remove the battery. If something is causing a high self drain then doing a battery reset (which is what you just described) might cause it to mis-recognize the LiIon battery as a 3v primary and allow it to come back on but overdrain the battery or cause a detection error.

It is always recommended to fully recharge the battery any time you open the light. I find LiIon voltage can be over 3.8v and it will still properly recognize the battery as a LiIon. If its between around 3.3v and 3.6v it may not detect the battery correctly and could give you an error code. If its below 3.3 it will think you are using a Li Primary. (Note: These voltages are approximate, the actual algorithm is more complex and uses voltage under load.)

My guess is your light has a capacitor fault and is draining the battery. The battery itself also could have a drain causing short in the protection circuit. Have you tried a different battery?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by mikeymoto on 12-19-2010 11:24 AM GMT

Thanks for the interesting info. At first I was using an IMR cell in the light and noticed the behavior, so I switched to the protected AW 18650. I'll start with a freshly charged (rested) 18650 and document a study of the behavior. If the problem continues I'll send the light with the documentation to Henry so he can help me out.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by the.Mtn.Man on 12-20-2010 11:16 AM GMT

because now cree is head and shoulders about comparable SSC and GDP emmiters, which wasn't so at the onset

Depends on your criteria. Cree are nice and bright with good efficiency, but the tint often leaves something to be desired. Depends on your criteria. Cree are nice and bright with good efficiency, but the tint often leaves something to be desired.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by the.Mtn.Man on 12-20-2010 11:19 AM GMT

I've had my 170 Tactical for a few weeks now and I'm really liking it! The size is really nice, small enough that I don't notice it very much but it's still big enough to get a good grip on it. Also the thing is built like a tank, I haven't been babying mine when I use it at work and its holding up like a champ!!!

Yep. My Clicky is probably the first flashlight where I don't cringe when I drop it. It's not hyperbole to say it's the best flashlight I've ever owned. Yep. My Clicky is probably the first flashlight where I don't cringe when I drop it. It's not hyperbole to say it's the best flashlight I've ever owned.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by KarstGhost on 12-20-2010 02:34 PM GMT

What are the advantages of the 2 AA configuration over one RCR?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-20-2010 02:47 PM GMT

What are the advantages of the 2 AA configuration over one RCR?

The ability to use the readily available AA batteries and their associated rechargeables (Eneloops) which are safer than Li-ion. There's probably a runtime advantage as well but I don't know by how much.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-20-2010 06:05 PM GMT

What are the advantages of the 2 AA configuration over one RCR?

People that cant afford li ion and a real charger suitable for the Li ion cells could probably afford the cheaper enloops/charger combo. I for one have a stupid amount of AA batteries my dad had from his days in the armed forces so I would love an AA tube. Also a nicer form factor for some people that like a longer light. People that cant afford li ion and a real charger suitable for the Li ion cells could probably afford the cheaper enloops/charger combo. I for one have a stupid amount of AA batteries my dad had from his days in the armed forces so I would love an AA tube. Also a nicer form factor for some people that like a longer light.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by P_A_S_1 on 12-20-2010 06:51 PM GMT

This whole 'out of stock' thing with the Ra Lights is unfortunate. I was looking to giving one as a gift. Should have acted sooner but at least newer future models will make a nicer future gift. That's assuming there are updated lights coming.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 12-20-2010 07:30 PM GMT

A dealer may have let a little bit of the "cat out of the bag" so to speak. I'm hearing that the high CRI may be getting a new LED? HMMMM, are we getting excited for "new" stuff yet?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Vesper on 12-20-2010 07:58 PM GMT

A dealer may have let a little bit of the "cat out of the bag" so to speak. I'm hearing that the high CRI may be getting a new LED? HMMMM, are we getting excited for "new" stuff yet?

While I'm not familiar with this particular loose cat, HDS site made mention to the fact that the high CRI sold way more than expected. Would be good business on their part to give that line some more TLC in some respect. Looking forward to the future development of HDS's lights as usual. While I'm not familiar with this particular loose cat, HDS site made mention to the fact that the high CRI sold way more than expected. Would be good business on their part to give that line some more TLC in some respect. Looking forward to the future development of HDS's lights as usual.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wantsusa on 12-20-2010 08:06 PM GMT

Well I hope he has a revamped High CRI flashlight with 200 lumens or so, that would make it easy for me to decide on a clicky to buy, as all I have atm is a High cri twisty. I like some other high lumen lights that are cheaper so I don't feel as if I am getting that much extra buying a regular clicky...but a High CRI is more difficult to come by especially if they can have a nice neutral/warm tint so it would be way more worth it and justifiable!

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by JWRitchie76 on 12-20-2010 09:39 PM GMT

I have also heard a 200 clicky is coming from a source that had a conversation with the man. But you guys know how these these things go sometimes....he said, she said stuff. But these sources are credible! Maybe Henry will confirm...............?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-21-2010 12:22 AM GMT

A dealer may have let a little bit of the "cat out of the bag" so to speak. I'm hearing that the high CRI may be getting a new LED? HMMMM, are we getting excited for "new" stuff yet?

I have also heard a 200 clicky is coming from a source that had a conversation with the man. But you guys know how these these things go sometimes....he said, she said stuff. But these sources are credible! Maybe Henry will confirm...............?

Thanks for sharing !!

Exciting times ahead. I hope the rumours are true and the high CRI is the 200 lumen !!!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by liketotallyrandom on 12-21-2010 12:37 AM GMT

I hypothetically suspect this hypothetical new hypothetical CRI model may hypothetically happen within the next 3 hypothetical months. Hypothetically speaking, based on some hypothetical recent info. [Semi-quasi-speculation based on actual un-guaranteed events]

[I'm not just being flippant. It's real info, but I'm being cautious/respectful.]


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-21-2010 12:56 AM GMT

I know there is going to be a 200 lumen upgrade but I have doubts that the 200 lumen is going to be a high CRI emitter. Maybe 140 to 170 lumen but not 200 lumen. Anyway, I won't be buying another high CRI so soon since I have one already and am happy with it but later on I might. Depends on what Henry has to offer.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jiuong on 12-21-2010 12:58 AM GMT

I already have the current HDS High CRI clicky and a High CRI Haiku,

a 200 lumens high CRI clicky will be a nice addition to the family :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by the.Mtn.Man on 12-21-2010 06:49 AM GMT

I know there is going to be a 200 lumen upgrade but I have doubts that the 200 lumen is going to be a high CRI emitter. Maybe 140 to 170 lumen but not 200 lumen. Anyway, I won't be buying another high CRI so soon since I have one already and am happy with it but later on I might. Depends on what Henry has to offer.

Agreed. I'd need to see more than just an upgraded emitter to pull the trigger, because 100 lumens is more output than I need or use on an everyday basis. Hopefully we'll get some hints about the new interface soon. Agreed. I'd need to see more than just an upgraded emitter to pull the trigger, because 100 lumens is more output than I need or use on an everyday basis. Hopefully we'll get some hints about the new interface soon.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by derfyled on 12-21-2010 07:25 AM GMT

The highest CRI emitter I'm aware of is the SSC. The SSC is based on a P4 XR-E core so there is no way this led can push 200 lumens. 100,120 lumens is by far the brightest output this led can reach. If HDS change the led to a neutral XP-G, the tint will be neutral but the color rendition index won't be as high as right now.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jiuong on 12-21-2010 08:23 AM GMT

There is a XP-G high CRI 90 but I have yet know of any lights using it

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by fisk-king on 12-21-2010 08:31 AM GMT

The highest CRI emitter I'm aware of is the SSC. The SSC is based on a P4 XR-E core so there is no way this led can push 200 lumens. 100,120 lumens is by far the brightest output this led can reach. If HDS change the led to a neutral XP-G, the tint will be neutral but the color rendition index won't be as high as right now.

+1 +1

I would love to see a 200 lumen hi-cri led but sadly we probably will not see one for a while.

Speaking of the new line of lights, I holding off for the headlamp .



Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by gottawearshades on 12-21-2010 08:54 AM GMT

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo...uffalo_buffalo

I hypothetically suspect this hypothetical new hypothetical CRI model may hypothetically happen within the next 3 hypothetical months. Hypothetically speaking, based on some hypothetical recent info. [Semi-quasi-speculation based on actual un-guaranteed events]

[I'm not just being flippant. It's real info, but I'm being cautious/respectful.]

 

[cistallus]

Page 27 of original thread as recovered from cache

Unknown
Written by Harry999 on 12-21-2010 09:45 AM GMT

There is always speculation here but until Henry himself posts here I will not believe anything.

Or of course until the new light or lights is/are available at the HDS website...

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by derfyled on 12-21-2010 10:15 AM GMT

There is a XP-G high CRI 90 but I have yet know of any lights using it

You're right, they are suppose to exist but I've never seen or heard about them. There is two version of those XP-G, 85 and 90. I once tried an SSC with a CRI of 85 and it did'nt impressed me as much as the 93. 93 is the actual CRI used by HDS. You're right, they are suppose to exist but I've never seen or heard about them. There is two version of those XP-G, 85 and 90. I once tried an SSC with a CRI of 85 and it did'nt impressed me as much as the 93. 93 is the actual CRI used by HDS.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Bullzeyebill on 12-21-2010 11:32 AM GMT

deletedl

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Bullzeyebill on 12-21-2010 11:33 AM GMT

deleted.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Bullzeyebill on 12-21-2010 11:34 AM GMT

There is always speculation here but until Henry himself posts here I will not believe anything.

Or of course until the new light or lights is/are available at the HDS website...

Sent from my smart phone using Tapatalk

+1. +1.

Bill


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Kgp on 12-21-2010 01:22 PM GMT

I hope the new high cri is more neutral then really warm, also not too crazy about the tint shift of it goes from very white to **** yellow. But non the less, still my favorite light.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by cave dave on 12-21-2010 02:42 PM GMT

Cree website is now showing CRI of 80, 85, or 90 at different CCT and flux bins. Highest flux bin is 80CRI with 114lm at 350mA, compared with the S3 bin of 139lm at 350mA. All those all emitter lumens not out the front.

And speaking of real lumens, Henry has always posted his lumen values as measured by an integrating sphere as a regulated output measured for each and every light. One of the big complaints about HDS on these forums is the lights aren't bright enough compared to the "advertised" specs from other companies, but how comparable are those specs? When one famous manufacture converted to ANSI specs there CR123 pocket rocket light that was 189 lm is now rated at 126lm. Somehow that makes the HDS 170clicky (120lm constant) seem better does it not? The 170 certainly out throws it in my informal testing.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by derfyled on 12-21-2010 05:37 PM GMT

When one famous manufacture converted to ANSI specs there CR123 pocket rocket light that was 189 lm is now rated at 126lm. Somehow that makes the HDS 170clicky (120lm constant) seem better does it not? The 170 certainly out throws it in my inormal testing.

True. A good way to figure it out without any instrument is a ceiling bounce test. My Ra 140 is almost as bright as my Quark 123, rated at 181 lumens. True. A good way to figure it out without any instrument is a ceiling bounce test. My Ra 140 is almost as bright as my Quark 123, rated at 181 lumens.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-21-2010 10:51 PM GMT

One thing to take note is that HDS light gives you a burst mode for 10 secs before stepping down to the next level. After it steps down, the output regulation runs plateau flat until the battery is weak and the light starts stepping down slowly. So even if HDS were to send the light for ANSI rating, it will still easily achieve 120 lumen for the 170 model and 100 lumen for the 140 model because ANSI measurements are done 3 minutes after actuation of the light.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wyager on 12-22-2010 12:27 AM GMT

Here's something that I've always assumed, but never had an answer to-when HDS says that the light has, say, an hour runtime at 170 lumens, does he mean exactly that or does he mean 10 seconds of runtime at 170 lumens + 59 minutes and 50 seconds of runtime at 120 lumens? Because that seems like a big misrepresentation if he means the second one...

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-22-2010 02:12 AM GMT

Here's something that I've always assumed, but never had an answer to-when HDS says that the light has, say, an hour runtime at 170 lumens, does he mean exactly that or does he mean 10 seconds of runtime at 170 lumens + 59 minutes and 50 seconds of runtime at 120 lumens? Because that seems like a big misrepresentation if he means the second one...

It is as what you have said. 1.25 hours at 120 lumen inclusive of 10 secs at 170 lumen. There isn't any misrepresentation by HDS. On the contrary, you are misinterpreting the text and accusing HDS of misrepresentation. Please read below, taken from HDS' website. It is as what you have said. 1.25 hours at 120 lumen inclusive of 10 secs at 170 lumen. There isn't any misrepresentation by HDS. On the contrary, you are misinterpreting the text and accusing HDS of misrepresentation. Please read below, taken from HDS' website.

1.25 hour typical runtime on High setting from single CR123 battery, greater than 2 hours to drop below 50% output. Higher output models are more efficient.

We all know that one level down in HDS terminology is called High and the 10 secs burst is just as is, Burst.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by chanjyj on 12-22-2010 09:46 AM GMT

It is as what you have said. 1.25 hours at 120 lumen inclusive of 10 secs at 170 lumen. There isn't any misrepresentation by HDS. On the contrary, you are misinterpreting the text and accusing HDS of misrepresentation. Please read below, taken from HDS' website.

1.25 hour typical runtime on High setting from single CR123 battery, greater than 2 hours to drop below 50% output. Higher output models are more efficient.

We all know that one level down in HDS terminology is called High and the 10 secs burst is just as is, Burst.

That may soon change with the new option to disable burst. I wonder if he will stick to calling it burst, or if the old burst becomes the new high. Think the former. That may soon change with the new option to disable burst. I wonder if he will stick to calling it burst, or if the old burst becomes the new high. Think the former.

Heading to Germany and Austria tomorrow night - going to torture test the HDS up in the mountains, in a snowstorm together with Surefire M2, LX2 and Fenix TK30. Wonder if the battery will die first.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-22-2010 10:00 AM GMT

It is as what you have said. 1.25 hours at 120 lumen inclusive of 10 secs at 170 lumen. There isn't any misrepresentation by HDS. On the contrary, you are misinterpreting the text and accusing HDS of misrepresentation. Please read below, taken from HDS' website.

1.25 hour typical runtime on High setting from single CR123 battery, greater than 2 hours to drop below 50% output. Higher output models are more efficient.

We all know that one level down in HDS terminology is called High and the 10 secs burst is just as is, Burst.

This is an interesting post and got me to thinking... This is an interesting post and got me to thinking...

When someone goes to the HDS website and purchases a 170 lumen output tactical clicky, do you suppose that they know they are only purchasing a 170 lumen flashlight that produces said lumens for only 10 seconds or so?

I mean, do you think that when somebody purchases this 170 lumen flashlight, they know they are really only getting 120 lumens for just over an hour or so and not 170?

I've always wondered why the lights aren't sold as their real lasting output and not the 10 second burst output...

:shrug:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Pöbel on 12-22-2010 10:33 AM GMT

They were sold that way when they started as Ra Clicky. Naming was changed later for marketing reasons.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-22-2010 10:51 AM GMT

This is an interesting post and got me to thinking...

When someone goes to the HDS website and purchases a 170 lumen output tactical clicky, do you suppose that they know they are only purchasing a 170 lumen flashlight that produces said lumens for only 10 seconds or so?

I mean, do you think that when somebody purchases this 170 lumen flashlight, they know they are really only getting 120 lumens for just over an hour or so and not 170?

I've always wondered why the lights aren't sold as their real lasting output and not the 10 second burst output...

:shrug:

If that someone, whoever it is, could spend $189 on a flashlight based on assumption without reading up more info about it, which could all be found in HDS' website, may I also presume that someone is a dork? Or maybe he's just too rich and does not know where to throw his money? I am certain that many of us including myself spent plenty of time researching on the operations of a HDS clicky before deciding whether or not we should plunge into it. If that someone, whoever it is, could spend $189 on a flashlight based on assumption without reading up more info about it, which could all be found in HDS' website, may I also presume that someone is a dork? Or maybe he's just too rich and does not know where to throw his money? I am certain that many of us including myself spent plenty of time researching on the operations of a HDS clicky before deciding whether or not we should plunge into it.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-22-2010 10:55 AM GMT

That may soon change with the new option to disable burst. I wonder if he will stick to calling it burst, or if the old burst becomes the new high. Think the former.

Heading to Germany and Austria tomorrow night - going to torture test the HDS up in the mountains, in a snowstorm together with Surefire M2, LX2 and Fenix TK30. Wonder if the battery will die first.

Have a pleasant trip! Just keep your batteries and lights warm under your coat and you should be fine. Use primary lithium if you have to because they are much more reliable under extreme weather. Have a pleasant trip! Just keep your batteries and lights warm under your coat and you should be fine. Use primary lithium if you have to because they are much more reliable under extreme weather.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by P_A_S_1 on 12-22-2010 12:11 PM GMT

There is a lot of information out there and especially on the HDS web site regarding their lights however sometimes that information is not always clear to everyone. It was a few months back when there was some confusion over where to find the output table for the 100 High CRI lights. It was clarified by Henry who in his responses sounded confused that this was even an issue and that it was not clear in the manual. Once explained it made instant sense to myself and a few others whom appeared to be posting in this forum for a while.

Prior to buying my light I read everything I could find on it including the manual (downloaded the PDF), as I think anyone should when they're about to drop so much money on a flashlight.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by twl on 12-22-2010 12:41 PM GMT

This is an interesting post and got me to thinking...

When someone goes to the HDS website and purchases a 170 lumen output tactical clicky, do you suppose that they know they are only purchasing a 170 lumen flashlight that produces said lumens for only 10 seconds or so?

I mean, do you think that when somebody purchases this 170 lumen flashlight, they know they are really only getting 120 lumens for just over an hour or so and not 170?

I've always wondered why the lights aren't sold as their real lasting output and not the 10 second burst output...

:shrug:

I wonder when people go to websites for most Chinese flashlights, if they really understand that the light won't even do what the company claims for one millisecond, much less 10 seconds or 10 minutes? I wonder when people go to websites for most Chinese flashlights, if they really understand that the light won't even do what the company claims for one millisecond, much less 10 seconds or 10 minutes?

As for the technical end of it, even if the light does issue the intended output at the beginning, it is unavoidable for the light output to dim as the temperature increases. This is a characteristic of LEDs. No company escapes this.

The ability of the light to maintain nearly full output depends on the design of the light's ability to dissipate heat, but also depends on the temperature of the ambient air.

Alot of spec requirements would have to be set up, and these don't guarantee genuine understanding of the light output anyway.

For example, let's say you propose to rate the light at its output after 30 minutes running. Well, the light is probably going to be at least 20% brighter at turn on, and the real output of the light for burst operation won't even be mentioned.

On top of that most people have the flashlight on for a matter of a minute or less, in typical operation, outside of people who work in the dark. It is no clear assumption that people widely use the light at full output for many minutes continuously, and probably don't. And in those cases, it is much more important what the light does at turn-on, and for the first short time that it is on.

So it isn't as clear-cut as you may like it to rate flashlights at ANY arbitrary spec, because that spec may or may not have ANY bearing on the way it will be used in real life by every user.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wyager on 12-22-2010 01:55 PM GMT

When someone goes to the HDS website and purchases a 170 lumen output tactical clicky, do you suppose that they know they are only purchasing a 170 lumen flashlight that produces said lumens for only 10 seconds or so?

NO...

I had no clue until I came to this thread.

I don't think that it's really fair. And to anyone who says "Oh, they must either be stupid or throwing away their money if they spend that much without knowing all about it"... WOW. That is the WORST business ethic I've ever heard. Believe it or not, not everybody has the time or the inclination to look through every single spec like we do. People should get exactly what they pay for and not have to look through fine print to know what they are buying. Maybe I would feel better about this if there was a better indication of actual runtime at the max number of lumens constant, but there's not.

And TWL, I'm sure everyone expects that cheap chinese lights won't live up to the hype. But not everyone is dishonest. I mean, look at 4sevens. They are being overly honest with their new output rating system, and many companies like surefire are supposedly very modest with their ratings too. They are probably losing business in the process, but it makes them better companies.

But, perhaps to make it less "arbitrary", companies could post a lumens rating at a certain point in runtime, and then use an inexpensive lux meter to make a graph of output over time? That way, it would be very easy to see that a "170" clicky loses around 30% of its output very quickly.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Pöbel on 12-22-2010 03:10 PM GMT

then what happend to cars would happen to lights. The cars detect that a certain test cycle is running and adjust certain values. So a "clever" manufacturer from, lets say china, might adjust his light to be 20% brighter after exactly 30mins for 1 minute

Yes, it would be "fair" to name a light Clicky 120 w. 170lm burst. But marketing is not about fairness. Same with hifi equipment rated for sinus power and max power. What is used for advertisment is the max power, although this cannot be used continously


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Jeff S. on 12-22-2010 03:32 PM GMT

NO...

I don't think that it's really fair. And to anyone who says "Oh, they must either be stupid or throwing away their money if they spend that much without knowing all about it"... WOW. That is the WORST business ethic I've ever heard.

And TWL, I'm sure everyone expects that cheap chinese lights won't live up to the hype.

Dear wyager,

I believe your misplacing "business ethic" with an individual's personal opinion. I do not wish to argue the validity of the opinion that: "(consumers) must either be stupid or throwing away their money if they spend that much without knowing all about (the flashlight being purchased)." Nevertheless, it is clear that this isn't an ethic being promoted by the business in question. This was just a board member's take on the situation.

Also, and I say this good in good nature, but there seems to be a contradiction in your sentiments: it isn't acceptable for an expensive manufactures to name his products with an eye on marketing, yet it is acceptable for Chinese manufactures to mislead in every fashion of the word based on the assumption that consumers expect that the Chinese lights cannot live up to their hype (product descriptions).

Now, this is my opinion: there is a vast wealth of information regarding HDS System flashlights. All specs can easily be found on the website, and the specs themselves are accurate. Yes, the name given to the product is clearly for marketing purposes (and I can understand the confusion regarding the max output v runtime). But the important bit of information is this: HDS System flashlights perform exactly as advertised. Maybe one has to do a bit of research to understand the advertising, but that isn't uncommon for any product of any description. Is a car going to truly get the EPA's MPG rating? re


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by twl on 12-22-2010 03:37 PM GMT

With respect to the HDS light, that function of burst for 10 seconds, and then dropping to 120, is a design feature that is intended to happen and is one of the features of the light, and not a loss of brightness because of poor efficiency.

The purpose is to allow the user to identify with the high burst, and then drop for battery saving purposes.

It's only about a 2db drop in brightness. Barely perceptible. But it acts to save the battery, and gives a quick burst of extra bright light for initial identification of the target. I think it's quite a nice feature.

It takes a change of 3db to be considered a significantly noticeable change in brightness to the eye.

If there is some objection to this feature, then perhaps the 120 E would be a better choice.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-22-2010 03:39 PM GMT

NO...

I had no clue until I came to this thread.

I don't think that it's really fair. And to anyone who says "Oh, they must either be stupid or throwing away their money if they spend that much without knowing all about it"... WOW. That is the WORST business ethic I've ever heard. Believe it or not, not everybody has the time or the inclination to look through every single spec like we do. People should get exactly what they pay for and not have to look through fine print to know what they are buying. Maybe I would feel better about this if there was a better indication of actual runtime at the max number of lumens constant, but there's not.

You didn't know? And you didn't take the time to read every piece of material on the site, hunting out facts that aren't clearly posted anywhere? Great amounts of heaping shame have been cast down upon you and your family. You must be one of those "dorks" that PJANDYHO was referring to... You didn't know? And you didn't take the time to read every piece of material on the site, hunting out facts that aren't clearly posted anywhere? Great amounts of heaping shame have been cast down upon you and your family. You must be one of those "dorks" that PJANDYHO was referring to... :ironic:

Seriously though, that is what I'm talking about. If I know that my light light only produces X lumens for a few seconds, I'm pretty sure that I'm going to let everyone know right up front that is the case. From the Home page, when one clicks the "Products" tab, all the lights are listed, with the executive and tactical lights both mentioning a "maximum output," but nothing about that "maximum output" lasting ten seconds or so.

When one clicks on say the tactical light, they are taken to the long description of the light. Nowhere on that page does it say that whatever tactical level light that you intend on purchasing only lasts for ten seconds. Ambiguously, it does say at the 14th bullet point that the light does indeed have a burst mode; there is no indication yet however, for the website reader that the light they are interested in has only the highest amount of output for ten seconds. Yet, at this point, the option to add a light to the cart is there.

It is possible, however, for the potential buyer to click from that page to go even further into the website to discover the real business behind the burst mode.

It is customers like you WYAGER that I'm wondering about... :shrug:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by gottawearshades on 12-22-2010 03:41 PM GMT

Henry really should release a new product soon, so I have something to talk about.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by OCD on 12-22-2010 04:47 PM GMT

Deleted

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by chanjyj on 12-22-2010 05:10 PM GMT

Have a pleasant trip! Just keep your batteries and lights warm under your coat and you should be fine. Use primary lithium if you have to because they are much more reliable under extreme weather.

Thanks Andy! Will have to tie a lanyard for the 170T soon. I just hope airport lets it through (who knows what they see through the x-ray machine with the capacitor, PCB, faraday cage in the HDS)... Thanks Andy! Will have to tie a lanyard for the 170T soon. I just hope airport lets it through (who knows what they see through the x-ray machine with the capacitor, PCB, faraday cage in the HDS)...


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by the.Mtn.Man on 12-22-2010 05:23 PM GMT

When someone goes to the HDS website and purchases a 170 lumen output tactical clicky, do you suppose that they know they are only purchasing a 170 lumen flashlight that produces said lumens for only 10 seconds or so?

The behavior of the lights is stated clearly and explicitly on the website, so if they don't know then they only have themselves to blame. The behavior of the lights is stated clearly and explicitly on the website, so if they don't know then they only have themselves to blame.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by stevenkelby on 12-22-2010 05:35 PM GMT

The behavior of the lights is stated clearly and explicitly on the website, so if they don't know then they only have themselves to blame.

Post #803 explains how easy it is to buy one from the HDS site, reading every word on every page, and not know. Post #803 explains how easy it is to buy one from the HDS site, reading every word on every page, and not know.

Not taking sides either way, just pointing it out in case you missed it.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by ckspeed68 on 12-22-2010 05:44 PM GMT

I wonder when people go to websites for most Chinese flashlights, if they really understand that the light won't even do what the company claims for one millisecond, much less 10 seconds or 10 minutes?

As for the technical end of it, even if the light does issue the intended output at the beginning, it is unavoidable for the light output to dim as the temperature increases. This is a characteristic of LEDs. No company escapes this.

The ability of the light to maintain nearly full output depends on the design of the light's ability to dissipate heat, but also depends on the temperature of the ambient air.

Alot of spec requirements would have to be set up, and these don't guarantee genuine understanding of the light output anyway.

For example, let's say you propose to rate the light at its output after 30 minutes running. Well, the light is probably going to be at least 20% brighter at turn on, and the real output of the light for burst operation won't even be mentioned.

On top of that most people have the flashlight on for a matter of a minute or less, in typical operation, outside of people who work in the dark. It is no clear assumption that people widely use the light at full output for many minutes continuously, and probably don't. And in those cases, it is much more important what the light does at turn-on, and for the first short time that it is on.

So it isn't as clear-cut as you may like it to rate flashlights at ANY arbitrary spec, because that spec may or may not have ANY bearing on the way it will be used in real life by every user.

"1.25 hour typical runtime on High setting from single CR123 battery, greater than 2 hours to drop below 50% output. Higher output models are more efficient."

Base on the feature leasted above on HDS website without going into the "Users Guide" one would think that it is 1.25 hours on high at 170 lumens, say for the 170T. I do not see the 10 second burst mention here, not even a 1 minutes on maximum lumens? Don't get me wrong the 170T is an excellent EDC light. Just 1 fraud thought for the one I have. the head is a little of center.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wantsusa on 12-22-2010 05:49 PM GMT

Actually if you read carefully you will see that the model name is based on the max output :"Maximum Light Output: 100, 120, 140 or 170 lumens depending on model"

"The electronics provide a momentary burst output when the maximum output is selected to give you one more brightness level beyond the normal high output." "1.25 hour typical runtime on High setting"

So those saying it isn't stated, have not read his information closely. Yes it would be nice for there to be say an asterisk next to the model number stating that this is the max output, and that it is only for burst, but it has been the standard to specify the initial burst OTF lumens that people love to see, though really that lasts just a short while and continuously goes down. A manufacturer in the marketplace sounds like they have one that might be able to do either or depending on your customization...but for many there is a drop down as they want to give you the initial bang!

 

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-22-2010 05:56 PM GMT

Actually if you read carefully you will see that the model name is based on the max output : "Maximum Light Output: 100, 120, 140 or 170 lumens depending on model"

"The electronics provide a momentary burst output when the maximum output is selected to give you one more brightness level beyond the normal high output." "1.25 hour typical runtime on High setting"

What you copied from and typed is from another link from the third page and is actually What you copied from and typed is from another link from the third page and is actually the 13th point down the page. I've already pointed out the first three pages before one orders does not contain what you have written.

Surely this info could have been disclosed waaaay before this location on the HDS site... :shrug:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wantsusa on 12-22-2010 06:03 PM GMT

Yes I agree, but it was just in the details, that is why I went there to check to see if I could find anything in 3 minutes on that. Think it took me 30 seconds to find that as I love looking at details though most manufacturers seem to tend not to give you as much of the details as Henry does.Everything is always in the details! Dang it I shoulda read the details about joining this forum..ala you will buy one...then two...then 10...then UGH...ya won't have money to spend, but you will crave many flashlights...

What you copied from and typed is from another link from the third page and is actually the 13th point down the page. I've already pointed out the first three pages before one orders does not contain what you have written.

Surely this info could have been disclosed waaaay before this location on the HDS site... :shrug:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by TyJo on 12-22-2010 06:21 PM GMT

I don't own one yet but I was aware of how burst works.... For those who own both the 100 high CRI and 170... If you had to choose only one which would it be? I plan on purchasing an HDS when they become available. I would like to own a high CRI light and I seem to be leaning towords the high CRI with the sacrifice in lumens.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-22-2010 06:43 PM GMT

Yes I agree, but it was just in the details, that is why I went there to check to see if I could find anything in 3 minutes on that. Think it took me 30 seconds to find that as I love looking at details though most manufacturers seem to tend not to give you as much of the details as Henry does.

Seriously, it took you 30 seconds because you were looking for something in particular, Seriously, it took you 30 seconds because you were looking for something in particular, not because it was your first visit to the HDS site. If you weren't looking for something like that, you would have to go to the home page and read that info, then on to the product page, and read/choose your light, and then on to the individual light page (where, btw, one actually orders the light), where if you don't order the light, you could then click to go on to the extreme detail page (the fourth page btw) and then after you've read down past twelve bullet and photo points, you would find out about how the "momentary" burst works. Even then, the reader, if they've made it that far (which, according to at least one poster here, if they don't, they are a "dork") doesn't know that momentary equals ten seconds.

So, do you now think the non-CPF HDS website reader takes only 30 seconds to find that info? :shrug:

I don't own one yet but I was aware of how burst works.... For those who own both the 100 high CRI and 170... If you had to choose only one which would it be? I plan on purchasing an HDS when they become available. I would like to own a high CRI light and I seem to be leaning towords the high CRI with the sacrifice in lumens.

Go with the High CRI. You won't be sorry! Go with the High CRI. You won't be sorry! :thumbsup:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by OCD on 12-22-2010 06:50 PM GMT

So, do you now think the non-CPF HDS website reader takes only 30 seconds to find that info? :shrug:

How many people who aren't CPF members do you think are buying lights like the HDS. Most non-CPF'ers still think a maglite is the best flashlight. How many people who aren't CPF members do you think are buying lights like the HDS. Most non-CPF'ers still think a maglite is the best flashlight.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by twl on 12-22-2010 07:04 PM GMT

I don't own one yet but I was aware of how burst works.... For those who own both the 100 high CRI and 170... If you had to choose only one which would it be? I plan on purchasing an HDS when they become available. I would like to own a high CRI light and I seem to be leaning towords the high CRI with the sacrifice in lumens.

The difference between the 100 lumens and the 170 lumens is less than 3db. It's not as big a difference as it sounds from the numbers. The eye does not perceive alot of brightness difference until it is more than 3db difference, and it takes twice the output to make a 3db difference in brightness to the eye in the real world. Not to say you couldn't see any difference, but it is minimal. The difference between the 100 lumens and the 170 lumens is less than 3db. It's not as big a difference as it sounds from the numbers. The eye does not perceive alot of brightness difference until it is more than 3db difference, and it takes twice the output to make a 3db difference in brightness to the eye in the real world. Not to say you couldn't see any difference, but it is minimal.

If the better color rendition is important to you, then the High CRI would be the choice.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by PoliceScannerMan on 12-22-2010 07:12 PM GMT

You know guys, wyager has a point. The description on the main order page on the site just says 140 lumens, not 140 lumens (10 second burst, then 100 lumens). I understand why he is not happy. It is misleading to a non CPFer.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wantsusa on 12-22-2010 07:17 PM GMT

You know guys, wyager has a point. The description on the site just says 140 lumens, not 140 lumens (10 second burst, then 100 lumens). I understand why he is not happy. It is misleading to a non CPFer.

Yes and I said I agreed with him on that point but to complain about it more so after I pointed out that the info could be found was not needed. I am all for great info right up front, but face it if you had all the info everyone might want to know about a flashlight on the first page it would get messy...and many customers hate seeing a messy webpage that they have to sort through too much info thus would not read it. That is where having a page with the details is something I can see as a good way to keep the detailed information, and not clutter up the other pages. Yes and I said I agreed with him on that point but to complain about it more so after I pointed out that the info could be found was not needed. I am all for great info right up front, but face it if you had all the info everyone might want to know about a flashlight on the first page it would get messy...and many customers hate seeing a messy webpage that they have to sort through too much info thus would not read it. That is where having a page with the details is something I can see as a good way to keep the detailed information, and not clutter up the other pages.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by TyJo on 12-22-2010 07:19 PM GMT

You know guys, wyager has a point. The description on the main order page on the site just says 140 lumens, not 140 lumens (10 second burst, then 100 lumens). I understand why he is not happy. It is misleading to a non CPFer.

I don't think very many non CPFer's have ever heard of HDS/Ra lights. If they are familiar with HDS then they should understand the light before purchasing, instead of being ignorant. I don't think very many non CPFer's have ever heard of HDS/Ra lights. If they are familiar with HDS then they should understand the light before purchasing, instead of being ignorant.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by PoliceScannerMan on 12-22-2010 07:27 PM GMT

Classic me. I posted my last post not knowing there was another new page of the thread full of comments.

TyJo, I would not say the guy was being ignorant just because he didnt know the light dropped down after 10 seconds. Kinda trollin a bit...


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by TyJo on 12-22-2010 07:32 PM GMT

Ignorance is lacking education or knowledge.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Brasso on 12-22-2010 07:33 PM GMT

I don't really see the big deal. The step down is almost unoticeable unless you are looking for it, and all you have to do is hit the button again to bring it back up.

To be fair, it did bug me before I actually bought one. But in actual use, it's a non issue. I actually like it now.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 12-22-2010 07:35 PM GMT

I'm trying to keep quiet here and not add a bunch of extra chatter, but I'm getting anxious!

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wacbzz on 12-22-2010 07:38 PM GMT

I'm trying to keep quiet here and not add a bunch of extra chatter, but I'm getting anxious!

There's always the PM option. It's especially useful if you think you've found something wrong... There's always the PM option. It's especially useful if you think you've found something wrong...


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 12-22-2010 07:40 PM GMT

Ignorance is lacking education or knowledge.

Come on, in the context of your statement, you meant it in a demeaning way. Spitting out one of the definitions later doesn't make it less demeaning. Had you said "he's simply ignorant to the fact that...." you'd be correct. But you didn't, so you aren't. Now go apologize and come back with your nice guy hat on! Come on, in the context of your statement, you meant it in a demeaning way. Spitting out one of the definitions later doesn't make it less demeaning. Had you said "he's simply ignorant to the fact that...." you'd be correct. But you didn't, so you aren't. Now go apologize and come back with your nice guy hat on!


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 12-22-2010 07:42 PM GMT

Grrrr sorry

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by bullfrog on 12-22-2010 07:47 PM GMT

double post

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by bullfrog on 12-22-2010 07:48 PM GMT

The difference between the 100 lumens and the 170 lumens is less than 3db. It's not as big a difference as it sounds from the numbers. The eye does not perceive alot of brightness difference until it is more than 3db difference, and it takes twice the output to make a 3db difference in brightness to the eye in the real world. Not to say you couldn't see any difference, but it is minimal.

If the better color rendition is important to you, then the High CRI would be the choice.

Just dont forget that the LED of the 170 is more efficient - meaning battery life will be better on the 170 vs. the high CRI when both are on the same output level of the light... Just dont forget that the LED of the 170 is more efficient - meaning battery life will be better on the 170 vs. the high CRI when both are on the same output level of the light...

So battery life of the 170 on 60 lumens will be better than the battery life of the CRI on 60 lumens... if that makes sense...


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by TyJo on 12-22-2010 08:09 PM GMT

I had no intention of demeaning, if I did I apologize.

Just dont forget that the LED of the 170 is MUCH more efficient - meaning battery life will be better on the 170 vs. the high CRI when both are on the same output level of the light...

So battery life of the 170 on 60 lumens will be better than the battery life of the CRI on 60 lumens... if that makes sense...

I never thought about that... I'm still leaning towards the high CRI I think. I never thought about that... I'm still leaning towards the high CRI I think.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by PoliceScannerMan on 12-22-2010 08:23 PM GMT

I had no intention of demeaning, if I did I apologize.

No worries. No worries. :thumbsup:

I never thought about that... I'm still leaning towards the high CRI I think.

Cant go wrong there. Cant go wrong there. :naughty:

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by edc3 on 12-22-2010 08:24 PM GMT

If I could only have one, I would pick the High CRI. If I need brighter, I already have other lights to fulfill that role. But buy both when you can. The 170 and the High CRI really complement each other well.

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by jslappa on 12-22-2010 08:48 PM GMT

If I could only have one, I would pick the High CRI. If I need brighter, I already have other lights to fulfill that role. But buy both when you can. The 170 and the High CRI really complement each other well.

That's a very good point. If a potential buyer already had a 150+ lumen light, the Hi Cri should then become more appealing. That's a very good point. If a potential buyer already had a 150+ lumen light, the Hi Cri should then become more appealing.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Belstaff1464 on 12-22-2010 11:57 PM GMT

Hopefully all this discussion about burst and runtime will be moot when the UI that lets you disable the burst feature is finally released......

Actually, does anyone know what the runtime at burst would be for the 170 ? I remember reading a figure of around 40~45 minutes somewhere. Can anyone corroborate this ?


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by wyager on 12-23-2010 01:38 AM GMT

I don't think very many non CPFer's have ever heard of HDS/Ra lights. If they are familiar with HDS then they should understand the light before purchasing, instead of being ignorant.

Why, as a consumer, should I be forced to waste my time looking up specs on a product because the product page does a bad job of describing it? It's not ignorance, it's just a lack of fanaticism. Imagine how pissed off you would be if you bought a new car, seeing that it was rated at 200 horsepower, but now that you drive it, you realize that it only does 200hp for ten seconds and then steps down to half that and can't handle what you originally intended to use it for. Just because, somewhere in the fine print, there is a vague indication that this is the case, doesn't make it OK. Why, as a consumer, should I be forced to waste my time looking up specs on a product because the product page does a bad job of describing it? It's not ignorance, it's just a lack of fanaticism. Imagine how pissed off you would be if you bought a new car, seeing that it was rated at 200 horsepower, but now that you drive it, you realize that it only does 200hp for ten seconds and then steps down to half that and can't handle what you originally intended to use it for. Just because, somewhere in the fine print, there is a vague indication that this is the case, doesn't make it OK.

I don't really see the big deal. The step down is almost unoticeable unless you are looking for it, and all you have to do is hit the button again to bring it back up.

To be fair, it did bug me before I actually bought one. But in actual use, it's a non issue. I actually like it now.

Irrelevant. If someone pays for those lumens, AND that runtime, they should expect both. It doesn't matter how it looks to any one person, what matters is the fact that some people really do need those extra 50 lumens (or even if they don't, they shouldn't have to pay for lumens they can't use). If I wanted 120 lumens, I should only have to buy a 120lm clicky. Irrelevant. If someone pays for those lumens, AND that runtime, they should expect both. It doesn't matter how it looks to any one person, what matters is the fact that some people really do need those extra 50 lumens (or even if they don't, they shouldn't have to pay for lumens they can't use). If I wanted 120 lumens, I should only have to buy a 120lm clicky.

Hopefully all this discussion about burst and runtime will be moot when the UI that lets you disable the burst feature is finally released......

Actually, does anyone know what the runtime at burst would be for the 170 ? I remember reading a figure of around 40~45 minutes somewhere. Can anyone corroborate this ?

Yep, I hope it gets cleared up then... I'm interested as to the actual runtime on max. Yep, I hope it gets cleared up then... I'm interested as to the actual runtime on max.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Pöbel on 12-23-2010 02:10 AM GMT

Why are they paying for lumens they can't use? You can of course use those 140 or 170 lumens, also for more than 10s if you press again.

I wrote about Speakers on the page before. Advertisment often use the max values which are higher than what can be permanently put out (RMS vs MAX). On Computer speakers (active) manufacturers often rate the PMPO output. Which can in fact only be achieved for a fraction of a second.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by pjandyho on 12-23-2010 03:20 AM GMT

wyager,

Not everyone pays for lumens, myself included. If you think buying a HDS light is all about lumens then I seriously think you are way misinformed. And for that I don't blame it on Henry's part. Henry did what he could as a manufacturer and dealer, and I truly believe that every customer has the responsibility to research on every item he wants to buy if the amount is substantial, and I do think that a HDS light is a substantial amount to pay for, so valuing my hard-earned money I read up on all the information available pertaining to HDS or Ra light including every single documentation in HDS's website before I bought my first HDS clicky. Don't you as a consumer want to know what exactly are you paying for? Saying that all available information should be printed on the sales page borders on being ridiculous. There are tons of information and features on a HDS clicky such that it would clutter the entire sales page. That is why you always see a separate product catalogue from every decent company/manufacturer on their released product instead of having to force the consumer to read through 10 pages worth of information on the sales page itself. Before I bought my pro camera which costs like $5000, I make an effort to grab ahold of the product catalogue to read up on it because all the technical specifications are written in there. I don't expect these information to clutter up the sales page. And there is such a documentation in HDS' website, just not on the sales page.

I believe you have said your point and we have given ours. Continuation of this argument is not going to change the fact on what you and all of us think HDS should do. On the contrary, it might appear to look like your personal crusade against HDS which I then feel should not be posted here but rather in CPF Underground. If you don't like your light you always have the option to sell it away. I think we should move on.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Moonshadow on 12-23-2010 04:48 AM GMT

Isn't this precisely the sort of complication that the new ANSI standard is designed to simplify ?

4Sevens have moved to measuring and marketing their lights based on ANSI specs. The last two pages of debate do make a fairly compelling argument for some kind of standardisation in the way lights are described.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Acid87 on 12-23-2010 08:21 AM GMT

Isn't this precisely the sort of complication that the new ANSI standard is designed to simplify ?

4Sevens have moved to measuring and marketing their lights based on ANSI specs. The last two pages of debate do make a fairly compelling argument for some kind of standardisation in the way lights are described.

I think this is slightly different. I think this is slightly different.

The point made isnt to do with the lumen output it the duration of which this output is achieved.

The 170 lm only lasts for 10 seconds (Burst mode) then drops to 140 or whatever the value.

It isnt that the 170lm isnt 170lm but lower if you get me.

On saying that I love the fact the ANSI standard is starting to come into play makes life easier for lumen hunters. Having worked in a camera shop lumen hunters remind me of people searching for the most megapixies in their cameras. Fun times.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Moonshadow on 12-23-2010 08:37 AM GMT

I think this is slightly different.

The point made isnt to do with the lumen output it the duration of which this output is achieved.

The 170 lm only lasts for 10 seconds (Burst mode) then drops to 140 or whatever the value.

It isnt that the 170lm isnt 170lm but lower if you get me.

Well the ANSI standard actually takes care of both: it defines the measurement to be made three minutes after switching on, rather than immediately - so you would end up reporting the continuous level rather than the 10second burst at the start. That's really what I was getting at. Well the ANSI standard actually takes care of both: it defines the measurement to be made three minutes after switching on, rather than immediately - so you would end up reporting the continuous level rather than the 10second burst at the start. That's really what I was getting at.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by twl on 12-23-2010 09:24 AM GMT

Well the ANSI standard actually takes care of both: it defines the measurement to be made three minutes after switching on, rather than immediately - so you would end up reporting the continuous level rather than the 10second burst at the start. That's really what I was getting at.

IN some ways the ANSI protocol would take care of things, but in this case of the HDS, the feature of the 170 lumens for a timed period of 10 seconds, and then switching down would be totally ignored. IN some ways the ANSI protocol would take care of things, but in this case of the HDS, the feature of the 170 lumens for a timed period of 10 seconds, and then switching down would be totally ignored.

The light would show the lower output level at the 3 minute point.

What of any lights that had any burst modes? What if a light had 350 lumens for a 10 second burst, and then dropped 3db(a not very big change in perceived brightness) down to 175 lumens? Would this then be considered a 175 lumen light also?

I happen to use my lights almost exclusively in burst modes. What my light does after being on for 3 minutes is virtually of no interest to me. I want to know what it can do in the first seconds when I turn it on.

The ANSI standard is the worst protocol for my use.

 

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Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by asleep on 12-23-2010 07:25 PM GMT

Okay, question: from around page 19 I see references to "McGizmo" but I'm not coming up with a website for that name on Google?

Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by cave dave on 12-23-2010 07:35 PM GMT

...

The question I came to this thread to ask, though, regards clicky runtimes. Have there ever been any "tailcap" current measurements on clickies? I can't find any with a search. I'm just curious if my 350mA 120EDC on high (after stepdown from 600mA) is particularly efficient or inefficient compared to other clickies.

Doing a runtime test with an AW RCR123 or Duracell is one way to know, but as I have neither of those, just wondering if there was any other info along those lines on here.

Everett posted some Everett posted some in part 3.


Re: HDS Systems EDC flashlights (#12)
Written by Unforgiven on 12-23-2010 08:07 PM GMT

Do yourself a favor...

Don't ever complain about anything HDS in this thread. If you do, don't make more than one post about your complaint. You will be preceived not as airing out something you find wrong, but rather as having a "personal crusade" against HDS.

It's not worth it.

Do yourself a favor, don't push it.

Or, do everyone else a favor and do push it.

It's about time for a new thread anyway so this one is closed.