Icon Rogue 1 - First Look Now with Pics!

[Sgt. LED]

Sarge, post some pics of it!

Specially beamshots... :thumbsup:

I can do that for you on Sunday night.

 

[Size15's]

Well if SureFire is making it I am disappointed and would expect more. The LED in mine is pee green!:thumbsdow

SureFire isn't making these.
ICON is making them.
They are separate and independent.

The website claims 3 hours on high on an Alkaline cell. Can anyone confirm if the runtime specs are for alkaline or lithium cells?

The ratings are based on the batteries supplied with the flashlights - Energiser AA alkaline batteries.

 

[Tohuwabohu]

The runtime graphs of my Icon Rogue 1 on high look very strange.

With all 3 types of batteries, alkaline, NiMH and Energizer Lithiums the graphs have nearly the same shape with several sharp bends.
The first bend is at 10 minutes, the second after 52 minutes and a third after 245 minutes.
Between the bends the graphs drop in small steps.
What is even more fascinating is that these steps occur at the same time for all types of batteries.

I am wondering if this is the normal and intended behaviour of the driver.

With the alkaline battery I still saw approx. 1 lumen after 21 hours.
A test with an Energizer Lithium is still running.

The included runtime graphs of the Fenix L2D Q5 were done with a single cell and a spacer.

My review of the Icon Rogue 1 in the German Messerforum.net. Preliminary runtime over 21 hours in post #25

 

[Sharpy_swe]

That wasn't impressive at all

 

[nakahoshi]

Good information:thumbsup:, looks like a good cell drainer.
-Bobby

 

[jirik_cz]

This is the worst regulation I've ever seen. :thumbsdow

 

[Size15's]

That wasn't impressive at all

This is the worst regulation I've ever seen. :thumbsdow

Is the best way to 'regulate' or control the output of a flashlight to force a 'table-flat' output until the batteries can not give any more and then have the output drop like a stone to almost nothing?

As with most things I believe what is best is often determined by the context.

As Flashaholics and those using flashlights as tools a 'given output for a given runtime' is a reasonable performance criteria where the informed user can more expectedly keep better track of the usage of the tool and it not be a 'shock' or 'surprise' when the output drops like a stone out of regulation.

The general public have no such experience or expectations and to them such characteristics do not fit as well in their sporadic use of a flashlight.
Feedback has shown that the sharp drop out of regulation can be taken to mean the flashlight is broken and the user discard/dispose of it. Of course we would automatically change the batteries and this shows just how much difference in thinking (or lack of thought) there is between Flashaholics and the general public.

If PK's ICON brand is intended to satisfy Flashaholics then I think PK has not make the best design intentions.
If PK's ICON brand is intended to satisfy a mass-market general consumer then I think PK's designs hit for more of the marks he intends then perhaps Flashaholics in our haste may recognise.

When I saw the output/runtime chart I told PK that CPF members weren't going to like it one bit. Just as well he wasn't intending to please us then!

As has been noted the Rogues are regulated in a very specific, carefully controlled, deliberate manner that is very different to what we Flashaholics have become accustomed to. I think this is an example of when we trip up on the adage "just because [with electronics] we can do something, it doesn't always mean that we should."

Al

 

[Kiessling]

It behaves practically the same with all three cell configurations. You get the same result regardless of the cells you put in there. Interesting.

 

[jirik_cz]

I understand that the driver was fine tuned for good runtimes with alkalines. But manufacturer SHOULD mention that the output will drop to 30 percent in 1 hour. :shakehead

 

[paulr]

That wasn't impressive at all

The graph is a little bit misleading. It compares the 1 cell Icon against a 2 cell Fenix. A 1 cell Fenix's output looks more like the Icon's.

 

[Kiessling]

What I don't understand is ... why aren't there any differences between the cells? Where's the energy going?
The Fenix does as expected and shows a difference between the cell chemistries, the Icon does not. :thinking:

 

[nzbazza]

The graph is a little bit misleading. It compares the 1 cell Icon against a 2 cell Fenix. A 1 cell Fenix's output looks more like the Icon's.

I don't think it is.

The poster states that he used a single AA and a spacer in his L2D, so it is a fair comparison.

It might be worth while checking out Selfbuilt's 1AA thread for another Fenix 1AA runtime graph.

Personally the Icon isn't ringing my bell...

 

[Kiessling]

I wonder what would happen if you took intermittent runtimes. It almost looks like the Icon is using some timer to reduce the output on continous burn. Just a very wild thought inspired by those strange looknig graphs.

 

[Flying Turtle]

Good information:thumbsup:, looks like a good cell drainer.
-Bobby

This is good to know. Thanks for doing the runtime work, Tohuwabohu. This might be a challenger to the Task Force 1AA for battery vampire honors.

Geoff

 

[Tohuwabohu]

What I don't understand is ... why aren't there any differences between the cells? Where's the energy going?
The Fenix does as expected and shows a difference between the cell chemistries, the Icon does not. :thinking:

The graphs are not complete.
I stopped the run with the Eneloop after 4.5 hours because I thought the cell was drained and I did not want to overdischarge it.
The Energizer lithium is still running, the output is higher than with the alkaline cell:

I'll post the final graph tomorrow or whenever it has dropped to the same level as with the alkaline battery after 21 hours.

I wonder what would happen if you took intermittent runtimes. It almost looks like the Icon is using some timer to reduce the output on continous burn. Just a very wild thought inspired by those strange looknig graphs.

I'll try that when the Energizer lithium runtime graph is finished.

 

[Kiessling]

Thanx !

 

[Size15's]

The graphs are not complete...

Using rectangles and triangles over the image of the chart above I estimate the the area under the incomplete LiAA runtime curve is 50% greater than the area under the Alkaline AA curve for the same time period.

Obviously with the actual data one could determine this far more accurately.

Al

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

The runtime graphs of my Icon Rogue 1 on high look very strange.

Yep, that looks pretty bad. I've probably used my Rogue on high for about 10 minutes. I've used it on low for maybe 45 minutes during a walk. I need to let it run and see if it falls off so dramatically.

Perhaps Surefire/PK are trying to replicate the Maglite discharge curve for the general public but somehow I doubt it. Surefire is known to be a little creative with their 'useful light' runtimes but this would take the cake.

It looks like the light continuously ramps down with a timer, the rate changes at a couple of fixed times. From this chart, the three hours on one AA claim looks pretty weak even by blister pack marketing standards.

Wonder if the timer resets if the light is cycled off for a moment? Or does the battery need to be changed? Does the 2 AA light do any better?

Looks like the light tested is faulty or the design needs to go back into beta...

 

[Size15's]

It looks like the light continuously ramps down with a timer, the rate changes at a couple of fixed times.

Wonder if the timer resets if the light is cycled off for a moment? Or does the battery need to be changed? Does the 2 AA light do any better?

Perhaps CPF members can find interest in exploring this even though it appears it is operating differently to the way we've come to expect? Almost like showing an interest in flashlights that transcends our own individual selfish wants and expectations?

Looks like the light tested is faulty or the design needs to go back into beta...

The output/runtime chart looks normal to me which means it is operating as intended.
I haven't seen any evidence here that suggests that it won't satisfy the market it is designed for. Too early to tell on the mass-market appeal doesn't appear to have to go without saying.

 

[GPB]

I am assuming PK still works for Surefire. If that's the case, this light must have been brought to market with the understanding that it wouldn't cut into Surefire's sales, or compete with anything that they offer. So it seems unlikely to expect these lights to be on par with SF.