**Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?**

[NewBie]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

In this price range, 150-350.00 I'd like to see something with an enhanced aluminum coated reflector with thin oxide overcoat (the type that doesn't degrade the performance) or even the same in an enhanced silver. Not some machined aluminum that has a urethane overcoat with dust and other goobers in the urethane.

Ribs or groves in the reflector, although only cosmetic, are also taboo.

I'd also expect a UCL type lens, a two side AR coated glass, or two side anti-reflective coated with hardcoat Acrylic.

I'd expect gold or silver on all electrical contacts.

I'd expect flawless operation in all aspects.

Any custom grinding to make bad parts fit would need to be done in such a matter that I don't notice it.

Dropping it better not break it, even on concrete. I'd prefer something such as rubber baby bumpers such that the finish is not damaged when dropped on a flat surface.

I'd expect a uniform and flawless coating on the body, where the pieces actually match each other exactly for color, with no pits or pinholes.

I'd expect not to find evidence of manufacturing, such as dust, dirt, hair, lint, etc.

If it utilizes a converter (like a boost or buck), expect efficiencies in the +90% range. If it was a buck-boost or sepic, I'd expect near 90% efficiency.

I'd expect no farkle of the emitter.

Yeah, I'm a tough customer, but only because I have a little tiny bit of knowledge.


There is a reason custom lights cost so much, they are not being made in volume, only a few hundred or less. When you get into volume, parts cost and production costs go down, the economy of scale.

 

[mapson]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

I am a newbie and a frugal one at that; most of the Arc lights are too much for me. About the only one I may get is the aaa because of it's compact size. That is not to say I do not admire and drool over the others but it's just too much for me to spend for a flashlight.

There is always a market for something; the question is how wide. I'm positive many here will buy high priced lights, sometimes it's a bit of peer pressure (can't be a flashaholic if I don't own xxx, etc).

 

[sithjedi333]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

Well put, newbie.

 

[RayT]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

It all comes down to what is valuable for a person. Ever see an Orange County Chopper? Those go for $100K+. Is it worth it to me. No way. But to others it is.

Why pay $2K+ for a Rolex watch? Because you can. People that know watches know what a Rolex is worth. Same with flashlights. People that know flashlights know what an Arc represents.

I would pay $250.00 for an Arc5 because I want it, admire it, and enjoy it. That alone justifies it to me. A company is free to charge what the market will bear, that provides the company enough profit on the number of sales.

These same people that complain about the price of an Arc will over the course of a year spend $250.00 on beer, something that you only rent. At the end of the year you have nothing. At least with an Arc I have something that I can always sell if I get tired of the product.

Cost is relative to the value for the recipient. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/takeit.gif

 

[gregw]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

I agree with NewBie here... I'm always more willing to spend more for custom/one off/limited run flashlights than a high-end "Production" flashlight, no matter the functions/features. For me to put my money down for an Arc5, I'll have to see how the Arc5, both price and function, compares with what Surefire and HDS has available at that time..

 

[gtwace]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

$250 is a little high, I do expect the price to be around that of an Arc4 since the Arc5 will eventually replace the Arc4 and go mainstream ?

 

[2dim]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with NewBie here... I'm always more willing to spend more for custom/one off/limited run flashlights than a high-end "Production" flashlight, no matter the functions/features. For me to put my money down for an Arc5, I'll have to see how the Arc5, both price and function, compares with what Surefire and HDS has available at that time..

[/ QUOTE ]

There are collectors, users, and most I'd say a combination of both. All have somewhat different priorities, not to mention budgets. Function and art combined in a custom flashlight, designed and built in limited quantities from the ground up by someone well known and trusted, will justifiably command a far higher price than a tweaked import or relatively simple modification of readily available market flashlights. Trouble is, things change so quickly, who can afford to keep up with everything?

Limited editions will always maintain a certain value, even if considered 'obsolete' by current standards, whereas cheaper conversions can be tossed and replaced as needed. While I appreciate beauty and function uniquely combined, for EDC I think function and value may be more important, just in case of loss for one thing, but also the wear and tear factor.

ARC lights are obviously top quality, however they are indeed manufactured units, not true customs. On the other hand, they're carefully made in America and can be modified, tending to last forever. Then there's the 'status symbol' aspect which many may find important. Just how much that's worth, who can really say?

Being new to all this, I found myself at a loss during our recent CPF Toronto meet, having only common store-bought offerings and blown away by the enthusiastic assembly of experienced flashaholics and their amazing displays. So now what? The pressure to buy is driving me to make decisions I may very well regret later. If only there wasn't that damned border to deal with, I'd feel a lot better. Of course, that includes currency conversion charges back and forth, with the banks and credit cards taking their usual bites.

The members on these forums are great, for sure the nicest most helpful people I've met of any internet group, however so much info is flying about it can be a bit confusing. While I'm starting to understand the terminology, more personal communication perhaps by phone is required before I go overboard buying stuff. Bear in mind my tiny boat's hardly afloat as it is and there are no lifejackets. So if anyone wants to talk, particularly local modders and others this side of the border, please send a private message. Long distance is pretty cheap and I'll be happy to pay for the calls. Actually, 45 minutes costs only one lousy loonie [that's what we call our funny money up here]. Thanks.

PS I promise to only call when agreed to and not bug you all the time unexpectedly. BTW, I'm 60 years old and don't relate well with computers. Don't know when or why I was changed from the 'newby' designation to 'flashaholic', since I'm not nearly comparable to others here -- maybe the addiction shines through the ignorance?

 

[357]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

[ QUOTE ]
turbodog said:
Let's say someone gave me the $250 or so this light is supposed to cost. Would I buy one then?

We have seen that arc's lights have been plagued with design and manufacturing problems. Arc aaa intermittent problem, arc ls battery crush problem, arc aaa o-ring not mating with battery tube problem, ls4 switch problem, ls4 battery length problem, more ls4 switch problems, lsx kroll switch flicker problems.



[/ QUOTE ]

Plus, minor problems like tiger stripes in the anodizing in a production run.

Just for the sake of the discussion, I haven't had any of the above problems with Surefires (which arguably is another high end flashlight that appeals to a small niche of users).

Thankfully, all my Arcs have been great from a reliability standpoint (no performance issues), but I do have a couple firsts with cosmetic issues (which none of my Surefires had out of the box).

 

[Hallis]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

My Arc4+ has striping on it. and the tailcap is noticably different in color.

 

[turbodog]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

[ QUOTE ]
357 said:
[ QUOTE ]
turbodog said:
Let's say someone gave me the $250 or so this light is supposed to cost. Would I buy one then?

We have seen that arc's lights have been plagued with design and manufacturing problems. Arc aaa intermittent problem, arc ls battery crush problem, arc aaa o-ring not mating with battery tube problem, ls4 switch problem, ls4 battery length problem, more ls4 switch problems, lsx kroll switch flicker problems.



[/ QUOTE ]

Plus, minor problems like tiger stripes in the anodizing in a production run.

Just for the sake of the discussion, I haven't had any of the above problems with Surefires (which arguably is another high end flashlight that appeals to a small niche of users).

Thankfully, all my Arcs have been great from a reliability standpoint (no performance issues), but I do have a couple firsts with cosmetic issues (which none of my Surefires had out of the box).

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

Arc, right now, in my opinion is a high-end prototype. The variations from light to light do not reflect premium quality. I bought a bunch of arc aaa lights once, about 24 or so. About 1/2 looked the same and about 1/2 looked like they came from 4-5 different manufacturers.

Surefire, although overpriced in my book, gives you the consistency that one would expect in that level light. Heck, even mag has gotten it down.

 

[Sean]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

Well, several of my Surefires had cosmetic problems out of the box, and very few had matching HA.

What a silly, subjective thing to argue about. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/touche.gif

 

[nonbox]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

I think the consumer should get better quality control for $250 and up. Flaws should be to at a minimum when paying out that much because you can get sub $100 flashlights or even sub $50 flashlights with out cosmetic problems out of the box these days.

 

[357]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

[ QUOTE ]
turbodog said:
[ QUOTE ]
357 said:
[ QUOTE ]
turbodog said:
Let's say someone gave me the $250 or so this light is supposed to cost. Would I buy one then?

We have seen that arc's lights have been plagued with design and manufacturing problems. Arc aaa intermittent problem, arc ls battery crush problem, arc aaa o-ring not mating with battery tube problem, ls4 switch problem, ls4 battery length problem, more ls4 switch problems, lsx kroll switch flicker problems.



[/ QUOTE ]

Plus, minor problems like tiger stripes in the anodizing in a production run.

Just for the sake of the discussion, I haven't had any of the above problems with Surefires (which arguably is another high end flashlight that appeals to a small niche of users).

Thankfully, all my Arcs have been great from a reliability standpoint (no performance issues), but I do have a couple firsts with cosmetic issues (which none of my Surefires had out of the box).

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

Arc, right now, in my opinion is a high-end prototype. The variations from light to light do not reflect premium quality. I bought a bunch of arc aaa lights once, about 24 or so. About 1/2 looked the same and about 1/2 looked like they came from 4-5 different manufacturers.

Surefire, although overpriced in my book, gives you the consistency that one would expect in that level light. Heck, even mag has gotten it down.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, and I am an Arc fan. I'd say they're my number 2 favorite (after Surefire), and I have lots of Arcs. But, realistically they are not as consistent as Surefire. I've never seen a Surefire with cosmetic issues along the lines that two of my Arcs have. Furthermore, I don't think on average Surefires have as many design problems (faulty switches like some Arc 4s, bad circuits like some AAAs had for a brief period, etc). Arc I'm sure will get better with consistent quality, but at the moment its not quite up to Surefire levels.

However, Arc does beat Surefire at bringing new technology to the market fast. Plus, Arc has much better customer service, IMO. Each company has its advantages and disadvantages.

 

[nonbox]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

Arc 5 & Surefire U2 will no doubt be the best of the best but something will come out a year later that is better. Collecting flashlights is like collecting or acquiring electronics or computers & computer peripherals.

 

[JonSidneyB]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

I agree...Surefire and Arc are the best of the best.

 

[RayT]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

[ QUOTE ]
nonbox said:
I think the consumer should get better quality control for $250 and up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hrrmph. When was the last time you purchased a car? Every notice that the trunk lid is not quite centered? Headlights not aimed? Loose threads from the interior? Body gaskets that don't seal? Ripples in the side panels? Missing clamps in the engine compartment? And recalls. How many have you endured? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/touche.gif

 

[Flying Turtle]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

The most I've spent on any one light is $60. I might go as high as $100 in the future. Beyond that my practical side will likely take over. Now if I really "needed" a good light for work or home it might be different, but I'm more a collector than a user. Sometimes I envy people who don't have the "cheap bone" that I carry, though I'm getting better.

 

[turbodog]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

[ QUOTE ]
RayT said:
[ QUOTE ]
nonbox said:
I think the consumer should get better quality control for $250 and up.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hrrmph. When was the last time you purchased a car? Every notice that the trunk lid is not quite centered? Headlights not aimed? Loose threads from the interior? Body gaskets that don't seal? Ripples in the side panels? Missing clamps in the engine compartment? And recalls. How many have you endured? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/touche.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you're trying to make a point in the wrong manner. You can't make a comparison this way.

If we compare a mag to an arc, they are roughly 10 times in price from one another. I would equate a mag to a typical car (reliable, gets the job done, etc). Sooooo an arc would be a $200,000 to $300,000 car. That's in the range of ferrari, rolls royce, etc. I personally don't own these cars, but would hazard to guess that they have a better fit and finish than your typical nissan.

 

[Gransee]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

It is encouraging to see people who normally wouldn't spend this kind of money grappling with the Arc5.

Just don't forget to feed your family please.

Peter

 

[RayT]

Re: Is the $250 price for the Arc 5 too expensive?

[ QUOTE ]
turbodog said:I personally don't own these cars, but would hazard to guess that they have a better fit and finish than your typical nissan.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I don't either. But I have looked at some of these cars and it is surprising the little things that do not fit that well on the high end cars. In many ways the Nissan is a better fit because a large portion is made by machines where the really high end cars are made by hand. Machines are repeatable and precise, the hand is not and is only done by visual inspection.

Had the opportunity to experience the failure of the hydraulic system in a one month old Mercedes (in Germany). Basically the entire car shut down. There was no brakes (except hand brake), no clutch, and some ancillary systems. Also had a rental Mercedes that was four months old where the air system failed. I could not lock or unlock the doors, I could not lower the rear headrests, I could not raise or lower the windows, and I could not open the lid to put fuel in the car.

So failures happen, even on the expensive stuff. If you find a problem with an ARC light it will get fixed, even after you have owned it five years and put it through the washing machine half a dozen times.

In my way of thinking that is what truly makes a product worth owning. Knowing that 10 years down the road you can get the product repaired with no hassles. Is it fully worth $250.00. That depends on your budget and your needs.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanks.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wow.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/sold.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/takeit.gif