Lumens Factory E-series bodies

[Mark@LF]

Right, these kind...

I know, but those big fancy words were so....
Eh, never mind...

And my pop (rip) used to say tomahtoe....

I have a couple of these early versions and I like them a lot.
Wait, is that a smooth no teardrop head on the crosshair Surefire E1?
Damn nice, man. Damn nice. :twothumbs

 

[Mark@LF]

That E1 is one of the nicest, in the nicest condition, I have ever seen (only seen on Internet, never IRL). Now please put the crosshairs back in the safe before I cause a blemish on it by staring too long at your picture.




Everything you said. Pretty sure LF sells E to C adapters, but... why not a thread-compatible P60 head for E-series?

LF, please consider a two-stage momentary/twisty switch in z52, which Surefire never had available for E-series until the recent EDCL-1/2 tailswitch, but only on incan A2 Aviator and some L-series. Though not what Surefire used (nor I expect what they are now using), McGizmo developed the McE2S for his Aleph tailcaps, thread compatible with E-series, but also gave it away to the world, and a few lucky ones have this in one of its forms in a Surefire z52. There are a lot of threads at CPF discussing the McE2S, including the development thread from 2005 (can't seem to find right now or I'd link to it).

But do us one better, Lumens Factory, and develop a two-stage hi/lo momentary/twisty for incan, which has never existed and several from these forums have said it is impossible, but I will never believe that. There is nothing unethical about underdriving a lamp, but how can it be done with a 2-stage tailcap in a way to increase runtime with a lower lamp-"mode" and not catch on fire? If you develop it... we will deplete your stocks.

In all honesty, switches are gonna be hard.
They are not our specialty and it is quite difficult to design a good switch.
So I am going to let you down on this as it does exceed our ability.

Thread compatible P60 head is possible though, that is well within our realm.

 

[Mark@LF]

Adding of these E bodies was a wise move I have ordered a head+body+tail cap already. And I guess I will be not the only one.

Thank you for your order and support.
To tell you the truth, these should have been out 2 years ago if everything we smooth.

I scrapped 3 complete lots (over 700 lights) because I wasn't happy with them.
Finally got something I think is good enough for us to launch after all this time.
Learned a lot of things on the way though, so it is worth it.
Will be using the experience and knowledge gained on future projects to bring better items out for you guys.

Thanks again for the support.

 

[vestureofblood]

Thanks for everyone's support.
We just released these bodies over the weekend and I hope they will meet the high standards of CPFers.
Cheers,

Mark

Nice move!! Thanks for doing this Mark.


I remember when Lumens Factory was one of about 5 stores in the world where a flashaholic could go to get anything useful. Lumensfactory, Lighthound, Sandwichshoppe etc. I'm glad to see you guys are still keeping with the old school alive; especially glad I can still get the incan bulbs.

Will these be available in natural as well?

 

[Jose Marin]

The basic size issue is E are head load. So even from scratch, bigger cell = thinner threads. I'm working on a body but it will be tail load so threads are stronger. But it will mean that head and tail are about the same size.

Do do you think using stainless steel for your material would improve the strength of the thin front load threads?

 

[Mark@LF]

Nice move!! Thanks for doing this Mark.


I remember when Lumens Factory was one of about 5 stores in the world where a flashaholic could go to get anything useful. Lumensfactory, Lighthound, Sandwichshoppe etc. I'm glad to see you guys are still keeping with the old school alive; especially glad I can still get the incan bulbs.

Will these be available in natural as well?

Yes, my friend.
Those were the days. A real shame Lighthound is gone now, they were real nice guys.
Gotta love the old school vintages, incans are our roots and we will keep them in our lineup as long as possible.

Well, the HA3 Naturals....
They were SUPPOSED to be released at the same time as the HA3 Black ones you see on sale now.
But then the shade Fu**ed up AGAIN, so I have to scrap them once again.
HA3 Naturals are real tough to get right and I need them to match the head and tailcap so I MUST anodize them all in one go.
If they come out bad, then everything must be done all over again.
The problem is that I can get the samples real nice and even match the later production darker shade E and M and C bodies I got.
Then in production, it will always come out lighter or darker then I want it to be.
So I am going have to monitor the entire process in house to do whatever I can to ensure it comes out at least acceptable.
This is probably why you don't see many mass production lights in HA3 Naturals anymore, it is a PITA to make.

They will be out soon though, I am not going to give up on it.
I love HA3 Naturals just like most of the old school guys and if it takes me 5 more tries then so be it. (hopefully not tho, LOL)

 

[Mark@LF]

Do do you think using stainless steel for your material would improve the strength of the thin front load threads?

Hmm, Jose.
The original quote was from ElectronGuru and not me, LOL.

Well, it would improve the strength, but then the entire light body would be stainless steel.
If the user is not looking to bore the light to fit 18xxx, I think the original thickness of the threads are pretty okay.
If I am going to use a different material to make the body, it would be titanium and not stainless steel.


Cheers.

Mark

 

[Jose Marin]

I meant the whole purpose of making out of stainless would be for 18mm cell front load so we can keep the compactness of the original body and tail with the added strength to the thin head threads by using steel instead.

 

[Crazyeddiethefirst]

Hey Mark,
Congrats on bringing these to Market, they are awesome. Thank you also for demanding high quality and doing Quality Control-I can only imagine the cost of having to trash so many runs of product that did not meet the Lumens Factory Standard. My Seraph's(6,9 & 6 Ti) and Angel are still going strong and looking as good as they did coming out of the box...

 

[night.hoodie]

Do do you think using stainless steel for your material would improve the strength of the thin front load threads?

I meant the whole purpose of making out of stainless would be for 18mm cell front load so we can keep the compactness of the original body and tail with the added strength to the thin head threads by using steel instead.

Everyone seems to have their favorite material, but Aluminum actually is ideal once a flashlight gets larger than a AAA/10440 or a 10180 light (which can use any material because they are small, and material mass and weight is an advantage in a light that small). Aluminum is ideal at the size of CR123A or even AA, due to its lightness and especially its heat properties, both superior to stainless, and it is strong enough as it is without modification for U.S. military and law enforcement. Also, Al is more affordable than stainless, both in the material itself, and the tooling of it will require less replacement and refit for the wear of milling it causes. This cannot be overlooked. Tough Titanium is chosen at times, for its strength and low weight, even though its heat properties are worse than stainless, and it is very expensive. I think maybe it is mostly its strength and its bling that it is seen in premium and collectable lights like McGizmo (E-series thead compatible!) and Sinner.

You should consider that things are what they are, and instead of trying to force a duck to be a goose, take a look at what Fivemega has for sale: bimetal, and another in all stainless.

But the ones who know keep coming back to Executive Elite, and LF corrects the pain of the rigidity of Surefire's strict business plan, never offering the parts we want for sale separately. You just have to see how great this is that these LF bodies are now painlessly readily available. So by all means, if you want to bore for 18mm cells, there are services, knock yourself out, because if you do have problems with weak threads, now you can replace the body effortlessly without the anxiety of not knowing if you can find a used one on eBay to modify. But I see wisdom in LF's decision to keep the design the same, as it is a direct replacement, and those who have put it through the tough duty know it works. Change a product that works even a little to appease the fringe and you are taking a gamble.

HA3 Naturals are real tough to get right and I need them to match the head and tailcap so I MUST anodize them all in one go.
If they come out bad, then everything must be done all over again.
The problem is that I can get the samples real nice and even match the later production darker shade E and M and C bodies I got.
Then in production, it will always come out lighter or darker then I want it to be.
So I am going have to monitor the entire process in house to do whatever I can to ensure it comes out at least acceptable.
This is probably why you don't see many mass production lights in HA3 Naturals anymore, it is a PITA to make.

I'm not sure I have seen any Surefire flashlights in HAIII Natural that have a bezel that matches the head, or matching body or tail. Sometimes the tail matches the head, bezel matches the body, a little, but never seen one as you describe that meets your high standards. Certainly I have never seen any that match another identical light either. So please don't beat yourself up, and don't go bankrupt trying to achieve the impossible! HAIII Natural hardware is expected to mismatch.

Also, congratulations on your matching! Here's to a long and happy marriage!

 

[Tachead]

I'm not sure I have seen any Surefire flashlights in HAIII Natural that have a bezel that matches the head, or matching body or tail. Sometimes the tail matches the head, bezel matches the body, a little, but never seen one as you describe that meets your high standards. Certainly I have never seen any that match another identical light either. So please don't beat yourself up, and don't go bankrupt trying to achieve the impossible! HAIII Natural hardware is expected to mismatch.

That is just because SF is being lazy and careless. It is pretty easy to have all parts match with Natural(Class 1) HAIII. You just have to run all the seperate parts together in the same batch/run and then keep them together. Each batch will likely come out slightly different but as long as you don't mix up parts from different batches you will always get a uniform light from bezel to tail. Zebralight has no problem achieving this for instance and they use exclusively Type III Class 1 HA.

 

[night.hoodie]

That is just because SF is lazy and careless. It is pretty easy to have all parts match with Natural(Class 1) HAIII. You just have to run all the seperate parts together in the same batch/run and then keep them together. Each batch will likely come out slightly different but as long as you don't mix up parts from different batches you will always get a uniform light from bezel to tail. Zebralight has no problem achieving this for instance and they use exclusively Type III Class 1 HA.

Well, certainly you make a fair point. But difficulty increases cost. As Mark has explained, he is scrapping batches to get it right, and that shows dedication, but it can't be cheap. There is a concept in business known as marginal rate of return. Basically it dictates that at some point, you have to pay a lot more money to get a marginal rise in value. What is the value of what you can't actually see when you are using it for its intended purpose and utility? I'm not saying I want ugly flashlights, but I will say I think Surefire's mismatched HAIII Natural anno has its charm, as each light effectively becomes one of a kind.

 

[bykfixer]

I applaud Mr Mark for striving for better. But that is nothing new to the Lumens Factory. And trying to get several dozen parts n pieces to a natural finish that all look alike is about as easy as getting a bunch of chocolate chip cookies to look the same.


I have a few natural HA type 3 lights that match very well end to end. Both SureFire and Vital Gear.
My olive drab E2E on the other hand....

 

[Tachead]

Well, certainly you make a fair point. But difficulty increases cost. As Mark has explained, he is scrapping batches to get it right, and that shows dedication, but it can't be cheap. There is a concept in business known as marginal rate of return. Basically it dictates that at some point, you have to pay a lot more money to get a marginal rise in value. What is the value of what you can't actually see when you are using it for its intended purpose and utility? I'm not saying I want ugly flashlights, but I will say I think Surefire's mismatched HAIII Natural anno has its charm, as each light effectively becomes one of a kind.

Yeah, I am just talking about consistency from head to tail.

I am guessing that Mark is trying to get a colour close to Surefire's colour and that is what is difficult. Minor differences in the process, alloy, etc. can all drastically change the colour of Class 1 anodizing where as it is much easier to get what you want when you are adding dye(Class 2).

Another issue is that he is selling parts. Without selling matched sets from the same anodizing batch/run it is very hard to achieve consistency with Class 1.

 

[night.hoodie]

I have 5 E2E's and 4 of the 5 match end to end. The only one that doesn't is an olive drab 4 flats that the bezel is lighter.

All 3 of my A2's match end to end as well.

Where is your compassion, man? You like to rub salt in wounds, too? I'll take your word for it, but also consider we're all going blind and losing the ability to distinguish close shades, just by being members of this forum.

 

[bykfixer]

Where is your compassion, man? You like to rub salt in wounds, too? I'll take your word for it, but also consider we're all going blind and losing the ability to distinguish close shades, just by being members of this forum.

I edited my previous because I just mailed out an E2E to a fellow across the big pond....

Now regarding losing sight.... I'm an incan fan for life.
All those new fangled LED's got people blinded.

 

[night.hoodie]

Now regarding losing sight.... I'm an incan fan for life.
All those new fangled LED's got people blinded.

+1 :thumbsup:

 

[Mark@LF]

Hey Mark,
Congrats on bringing these to Market, they are awesome. Thank you also for demanding high quality and doing Quality Control-I can only imagine the cost of having to trash so many runs of product that did not meet the Lumens Factory Standard. My Seraph's(6,9 & 6 Ti) and Angel are still going strong and looking as good as they did coming out of the box...

Thank you for your continued support.
I try to all the Quality Control myself so I know what's up and can improve the products if needed.
I designed the Seraph myself and took me 2 years to release it as well.
Really happy to know you liked the design.

Thanks again.

 

[vadimax]

Thank you for your continued support.
I try to all the Quality Control myself so I know what's up and can improve the products if needed.
I designed the Seraph myself and took me 2 years to release it as well.
Really happy to know you liked the design.

Thanks again.

One question: once upon a time there were titanium versions of Seraph. Are they gone forever?

 

[Mark@LF]

Everyone seems to have their favorite material, but Aluminum actually is ideal once a flashlight gets larger than a AAA/10440 or a 10180 light (which can use any material because they are small, and material mass and weight is an advantage in a light that small). Aluminum is ideal at the size of CR123A or even AA, due to its lightness and especially its heat properties, both superior to stainless, and it is strong enough as it is without modification for U.S. military and law enforcement. Also, Al is more affordable than stainless, both in the material itself, and the tooling of it will require less replacement and refit for the wear of milling it causes. This cannot be overlooked. Tough Titanium is chosen at times, for its strength and low weight, even though its heat properties are worse than stainless, and it is very expensive. I think maybe it is mostly its strength and its bling that it is seen in premium and collectable lights like McGizmo (E-series thead compatible!) and Sinner.

You should consider that things are what they are, and instead of trying to force a duck to be a goose, take a look at what Fivemega has for sale: bimetal, and another in all stainless.

But the ones who know keep coming back to Executive Elite, and LF corrects the pain of the rigidity of Surefire's strict business plan, never offering the parts we want for sale separately. You just have to see how great this is that these LF bodies are now painlessly readily available. So by all means, if you want to bore for 18mm cells, there are services, knock yourself out, because if you do have problems with weak threads, now you can replace the body effortlessly without the anxiety of not knowing if you can find a used one on eBay to modify. But I see wisdom in LF's decision to keep the design the same, as it is a direct replacement, and those who have put it through the tough duty know it works. Change a product that works even a little to appease the fringe and you are taking a gamble.



I'm not sure I have seen any Surefire flashlights in HAIII Natural that have a bezel that matches the head, or matching body or tail. Sometimes the tail matches the head, bezel matches the body, a little, but never seen one as you describe that meets your high standards. Certainly I have never seen any that match another identical light either. So please don't beat yourself up, and don't go bankrupt trying to achieve the impossible! HAIII Natural hardware is expected to mismatch.

Also, congratulations on your matching! Here's to a long and happy marriage!

I understand Jose and other customers that want the ability to use 18650 on the E Bodies.
But a lot of the design must be revised to make the head threads stronger.
If I want to keep the design true, then the only way is to change to a stronger material.
I think that is what Jose is asking me, would I use Stainless Steel or a stronger material to make E bodies that can accept 18650 batteries but have an head thread with acceptable strength.

And I can't explain it better then you night.hoodie.
Fivemega's bodies are quite nice and they are designed from the ground up to be able to use 18650s.
His design aims to solve the weaknesses of a bored E body.
I think would be great if you are looking for a 18650 able E body.

About the HAIII,

Well, it is quite difficult to get the shade I really want.
Heck, it is not even easy to get them to have RELATIVELY the same shade even when they are anodized at the same time.
I will explain on the other reply.

I am not going to endlessly pursuit something that might very well be impossible and probably bankrupt myself trying, LOL.
The problem is for the previous runs, I was not there for the entire process.
I was there at the sample production and they come out fine every time.
Then comes the production and they all flopped.
The guys at the anodizing factory told me it was done the same way, but somehow it came out different.
So this time I am going over to their factory and monitor every minute of the process until it is done.
It will take me a couple days, but I must find out what is the problem.
If there is really nothing I can do, then I will accept the fact.
But I am not going to give up until I am there myself on the entire process.


Thank you, night.hoodie. My wife treats me like a king and I am really that I met her.