New bike light on kickstarter-Barry Beams

[Steve K]

... User-swappable non proprietary LiIon cell is a huge plus. AFAIK there's only one other product on the market very expensive bike light from Philips with a 5+ year outdated LED that even attempts to shape the beam into a vehicular pattern.

That's a good point about swappable lithium batteries. That's a feature I look for in other consumer electronics. My mobile phone does have a battery that can be popped out with minimal effort (a cheap LG model), and my older mp3 player accepts AAA cells (a wonderful feature). For bike lights, my stuff is all home made, so I really don't know what else is on the market. The Philips is about all I hear about with a proper road beam, and it could be less expensive.

Just off the top of my head, I can only think of Cateye and Philips when I try to name companies that do their own design and do good work with optics. It seems like a lot of companies just contract with some general electronics house in the low-cost-labor countries and get a pretty generic light as a result. Well, these seem to account for the affordable lights, at least. What have I missed??

And back to the subject... when is Barry supposed to start shipping? I'd like to hear some third party reviews. When I was looking at some of his pictures, I was struck by how the front portion of the light is clear plastic. Yeah, it does make it visible to the sides, but it also puts light into the rider's eyes too, and really messes up the night vision. I've put tape over the top of my home made lights that had that characteristic. I suppose it would work on Barry's light too.

 

[Marcturus]

I believe his does looks a lot better than nearly every currently commerically available options -- though that's largely an indictment on the poor state of the industry as far as bike lights go. User-swappable non proprietary LiIon cell is a huge plus. AFAIK there's only one other product on the market very expensive bike light from Philips with a 5+ year outdated LED that even attempts to shape the beam into a vehicular pattern.

No matter how outdated you think Lumileds Rebels and Altilons are, Philips demonstrated success in engineering and manufacturing road vehicle lamps with cut-off style low beams, as their K and E marks prove. I can only hope that the false-color beam intensity pattern that BB provided was intentionally altered in line with his strategy of precautions against the dreaded intellectual-property theft.

 

[SemiMan]

Based on the attitude we got I am not that surprised at the current state. It is not easy bringing a product to market and far more fail than succeed.

If he was working with Chinese suppliers, IP theft is always an issue. There are actually lots of other low cost places in the world to manufacture where IP has a much better level of respect. You may even find a partner who wants to work with you instead of just learn so that they can screw you later. You can also spread out your manufacturing so no one company has enough access to tech to replicate your product.

I think there is a market for an affordable good cycling light. There seems to be some tolerable options in Europe, but in North America, they tend to be expensive and/or poor or expensive and poor.

Semiman

 

[Esko]

Just remembered this project. It looks like nothing has really changed. Barry promised regular updates and there was one in February. It is not public but there is more discussion in comments section.

It looks like Barry is searching for further 75K$ now. It would allow him to keep everything in his hands. Backers could suggest financing sources too. The investor must agree that Barry has complete control over everything... :shrug: According to Barry, the delays are due to legal processes, too. It would be interesting to know how much he is spending on lawyers.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/barrybeams/the-future-of-bike-lighting-by-barry-beams/comments

Just off the top of my head, I can only think of Cateye and Philips when I try to name companies that do their own design and do good work with optics. It seems like a lot of companies just contract with some general electronics house in the low-cost-labor countries and get a pretty generic light as a result. Well, these seem to account for the affordable lights, at least. What have I missed??

Other brands could include Bush&Müller, Dosun and Troutie Lights. And then there are the new Fenix bike lights with very subtle beam shaping. It is true that there are far too few bike lights with non-circular beam patterns. Most lights are made by flashlight companies which like to use more power than brains. Circular beam is cheap and easy.

Not to say that I expect much from Barry Light. IMHO it looks like the technology was chosen because no-one else had used it before (i.e. it could be patented). It doesn't look very good to me. I am more interested in the use of heat conducting plastics. I wonder if it could be patented (hopefully not).

And back to the subject... when is Barry supposed to start shipping? I'd like to hear some third party reviews.

I don't know, but you could pre-order the light from his home page with a promised delivery in August.

 

[Szemhazai]

I am more interested in the use of heat conducting plastics. I wonder if it could be patented (hopefully not)..

This is nothing new - you can see quite a lot of this "plastic" on Chinese light fairs last year - i would say it's "widely available", but quite expensive and not necessarily results justify the costs. You can check yourself : https://www.google.pl/search?client...rceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

 

[Savvas]

There are now quite a few bike light manufacturers with 'shaped' or 'auto cutoff' beams - B&M, Schmidt, CatEye, Dosun, Philips, Hermans and several more obscure Eu manufacturers. SWH has a good summary of some of them at his web site. I have used both Schmidt and Phillips (dynamo form) - both are excellent IMHO. It hardly seems worthwhile trying to develop something new with such products already in the market place...
Savvas,

 

[SemiMan]

Just remembered this project. It looks like nothing has really changed. Barry promised regular updates and there was one in February. It is not public but there is more discussion in comments section.

It looks like Barry is searching for further 75K$ now. It would allow him to keep everything in his hands. Backers could suggest financing sources too. The investor must agree that Barry has complete control over everything... :shrug: According to Barry, the delays are due to legal processes, too. It would be interesting to know how much he is spending on lawyers.

[

There is a saying when starting up a company and dealing with investors.

Do you want 49% of something or 100% of nothing.

If you are confident in the product/process/opportunity, you give up control with very clear (legally) terms for taking back control. Taking back control means you make your investors money. Investors only want to take over a company/have control to ensure they get their investment back. If you are the best person for running the show .... i.e. make them a ton of money, then they have 0 interest in getting rid of you.

Many entrepreneurs think they know everything and are infallible ... never the case. When looking for investors, look for people who know more than you in areas you are weak. Think of them as partners.

Semiman

 

[SemiMan]

There are now quite a few bike light manufacturers with 'shaped' or 'auto cutoff' beams - B&M, Schmidt, CatEye, Dosun, Philips, Hermans and several more obscure Eu manufacturers. SWH has a good summary of some of them at his web site. I have used both Schmidt and Phillips (dynamo form) - both are excellent IMHO. It hardly seems worthwhile trying to develop something new with such products already in the market place...
Savvas,

Barry may have a distorted view of the market as very few of those wonderful products are readily available in the average shop in the U.S.

Semiman

 

[petr9999]

any updates? i kind of what to see the final product

 

[Esko]

There are some updates but they are not public. Anyway, it looks like the update made on July 8th had something that made backers happy. Who knows.:shrug:
.
There is some interesting information in the public comments though. I guess it tells more about the creator than the light. It looks like Barry stalked down one of his unhappy customers and tried to get him fired (Kyle's message, June 18th.). It also looks like he has backed another bike light and is acting as a naysayer there, pointing out plenty of things that are wrong with the light and trying to sell his consultation help and his electronics to them. I tend to agree with most of his points though. Too bad that he is so much better in giving critique than he is in receiving it. :shrug:

 

[Steve K]

who needs reality TV when we have Kickstarter?

It would be interesting to see what Barry's design issues are. I get the impression that he's doing the electrical, mechanical, etc. aspects of the design. That's a significant challenge, speaking from personal experience. Just doing good plastic design is a distinct skill. Having been acquainted with Barry since the Bikecurrent days, he never seemed to lack for confidence in his abilities. I hope he hasn't gotten himself in too much trouble... and I hope his backers don't start a class action lawsuit or anything.

 

[SemiMan]

He does not listen, does not accept criticism and treats all advice as criticism. That is a recipe for failure.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

 

[Steve K]

Yeah... that's another way to say it.

My experience with Barry on the Bikecurrent list was that he assumed he knew more than anyone else, and wouldn't take any advice until he got to know you and understand that you really did know something. I don't recall any impression that Barry had a lot of design experience, and I don't think he was familiar with the usual problems that come up during development. Add in the problems of working with suppliers, etc., and it's a significant task.

The whole idea of wanting to compete with places like Cateye or Planet Bike would keep me away. Cateye has a huge amount of experience in plastics and optics, and Planet Bike is very good at finding suppliers who can accept a specification and produce a pretty decent product. Both have their weaknesses too.

I'm still trying to figure out why Barry would want to get into the business of making bike lights. Nobody gets rich by making out niche commodity consumer products like this. Unless you are a marketing genius like Steve Jobs, you'll do well just to make a decent living. My best guess is that it is just the excitement and relative glamor of having your own design being produced and sold that got Barry into this... along with an opportunity to show the rest of the world that he is smarter than they are. I like having my designs produced too, but I've spent enough time dealing with suppliers, manufacturing, etc. I'll settle for playing in the lab and showing off my latest gadget to other geeks like the CPF crowd.

 

[Esko]

I'm still trying to figure out why Barry would want to get into the business of making bike lights. Nobody gets rich by making out niche commodity consumer products like this. Unless you are a marketing genius like Steve Jobs, you'll do well just to make a decent living. My best guess is that it is just the excitement and relative glamor of having your own design being produced and sold that got Barry into this... along with an opportunity to show the rest of the world that he is smarter than they are. I like having my designs produced too, but I've spent enough time dealing with suppliers, manufacturing, etc. I'll settle for playing in the lab and showing off my latest gadget to other geeks like the CPF crowd.

Barry likes biking, he has some kind of connections to business world and start-ups and he has an idea. Judging by the photographs, he is not a young boy any more. It might be a long time dream he is working on, trying to achieve something of his own. Perhaps his last change. Can't blame him on that.

Barry may be a nice biking buddy, but bearing in mind his personality, attitude and business practices, I would like to have absolutely no connections what so ever to his businesses (or his connections to mine). I am not interested in his light either, not in its current form (and there would have to be some rather big changes in order to make me interested). It is the psychological side of the project and people involved that I am interested in. You can call it entertainment. You could also call it learning. Anyway. The light was supposed to be shipped in August and it looks like it is postponed to October now. That is just 2 months more. Perhaps it really is about to be released in near future. We'll see.

 

[Marcturus]

http://www.bikelighting.net/index.html

No comment.

 

[Steve K]

okay... I'll throw out a couple of comments

I do like the part about not having a proprietary battery. I was just looking at a Cateye Volt at a bike shop yesterday, and while it does allow you to change batteries (good), it's a "cartridge", and not just a battery (bad). Maybe that keeps the user from installing an unprotected lithium cell, or using a primary cell instead of a rechargeable? Beats me, but I like the idea of using generic, replaceable batteries.

I'm intrigued by the tab labeled "meet the inventor". Is that part of the Kickstarter environment, where people want to buy stuff from actual people with interesting histories instead of from an impersonal corporation with boring engineers? Or is it just Barry wanting to say "hey, look at me, I made this thing!"? (which, btw, I sympathize with. )

The "Get mistaken for a car" slogan will appeal to some. Personally, I'd rather get seen and recognized as a bike, but I understand the appeal to feel less vulnerable on the road.

 

[Esko]

So, Barry's patent application has been accepted. At least it looks like the project is going on.

okay... I'll throw out a couple of comments

I do like the part about not having a proprietary battery. I was just looking at a Cateye Volt at a bike shop yesterday, and while it does allow you to change batteries (good), it's a "cartridge", and not just a battery (bad). Maybe that keeps the user from installing an unprotected lithium cell, or using a primary cell instead of a rechargeable? Beats me, but I like the idea of using generic, replaceable batteries.

I'm intrigued by the tab labeled "meet the inventor". Is that part of the Kickstarter environment, where people want to buy stuff from actual people with interesting histories instead of from an impersonal corporation with boring engineers? Or is it just Barry wanting to say "hey, look at me, I made this thing!"? (which, btw, I sympathize with. )

The "Get mistaken for a car" slogan will appeal to some. Personally, I'd rather get seen and recognized as a bike, but I understand the appeal to feel less vulnerable on the road.

I agree that the use of generic batteries is one of the good choices. I prefer 18650 though. On the other hand, I dislike the car slogan (and the car comparison hype in general). If you want to get mistaken for a car, you need two separate headlights. One headlight with two hotspots doesn't do the work. Of course, these specifications are nothing new. We have known them all the time.

Meet the inventor tab? Kickstarter environment? It is his personal web page and the link goes to his Facebook page, updated last year. Research and development tab takes you to the Kickstarter page.

I tried to google the patent. I guess it has been available quite some time already. I haven't read it yet, I'll go through it one I have spare time (and nothing more interesting to do). While googling, I also came up with an interesting website. Two versions of the page:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...rry-beams-lighting/+&cd=1&hl=fi&ct=clnk&gl=fi
https://gazillionfund.com/projects/oculus-by-barry-beams-lighting/

I guess the search for more money was not a secret, I believe it was mentioned in KS page, too. However, according to the page, Barry thinks that the value of his company was $4 million before the patent was accepted, and $20 million after it was accepted (later changed to $8 million?). I am not an economist but for a single man company with zero products delivered, $100K+ in development costs and presumably with some tens of thousands in pre-sales, it surely sounds "pretty optimistic". It would be interesting to see Barry in Dragons' Den/Shark Tank (or some other entrepreneurs/venture capitalists TV show). Does anyone know what the well established middle sized flashlight companies are worth? Companies like Foursevens or Zebralight?

 

[bikelighting]

My website received a bunch of hits from Candlepower Forums links, so I took a few minutes to check in.
Its fascinating to see what the portion of the population of this list that prefers casting troll bait rather than seeking accurate information likes to dangle.
Going back to the comment about light in the rider's eyes, one of the long sessions I spent running optical simulations in Zemax was to find the optimum cutoff shape to maximize sidelight without rays heading upward to the riders field of view. If any of you care to see my CNC machined early prototype light heads, I can show an initial head that did emit rays upwards, versus the next iteration that became the current shape that doesn't emit rays up at the rider but does maximize down and side light. The final design overlaps the clear lower housing over an inward angled section of the heatsick/ reflector body so that light gets blocked from reflecting straight up at the eyes but does refract sideways.
The comment about battery sizes overlooks the need to have sufficient power capacity to pump full power out of a light like mine. The latest 3400mAH 18650 cells would be nice for a hobby light where cost is no object. My 26650 4.5AH minimum rated battery from one certain vendor of the several vendor samples I tested, has a burn time of at least 1:04 at 1C draw, and at least a half hour at 2C draw, based on tests across 20 samples. Other vendors that claimed a minimum of 4500mAH don't do it at 1C test load They rate their capacities by claiming 2 hours at .5C load or 4 hours at .25C. Whereas my selected battery burns for 4:40 at 1/4C and 9:30 minimum at 1/8C.
Over the last few days I've made changes to the website content, shifting to a main theme of "No More losing your Lumens".
Most components are made or being molded. The "get mistaken for a car" will remain but not as the predominant part of the pitch, because if a driver doesn't think you're "just" a bicycle they treat you better and give you more room.
In a telling indication of confidence and belief in my venture, Cree's major distributor shipped me direct to my hotel at Interbike, a batch of the latest top tier XPG2 LEDs, reflowed onto my first batch of production LED circuit boards. I designed my own boards to overcome the severe thermal limitations of standard star and disk shaped boards. Mine are made from one of the recent advanced construction MCPCB that transfers heat from the junction more directly to the metal core layer. These precise binned XPG2 have an effective output at stable operating temperature of 100 or more lumens greater than the XPG1, and a more stable, more cool white color temperature whether the light is fully cold or has warmed up a bit.
My unbreakable mounts are made, and I sourced a great velcro strap from a maker in Florida, that is stronger than I can tear. The translucent mounts rotate freely 360 degrees to any position, and hold position regardless of the amount of shock and vibration the light encounters.
The first test molds of the final heatsink design, with a few tweaks to the version 1 shape, and made using a newer version of the type of material that the initial heatsink molds are made of, arrived the day before Interbike. These new version 2 heatsinks transmit heat better than the version 1.
Net result of the thermal testing shows that I'm now up to eight minutes on full power, sitting still at a 72 degree ambient temperature, before a 55C (rather conservative temperature for a thermal dimmer)) thermal cutoff dims the light to the third of five settings. The version 1 heatsinks reached thermal dimming in 6 1/2 to 7 minutes.
Currently I have a 4 man relay team and a solo rider enjoying the nightrides of their lives with these latest version 2 XPG2 lights at the Furnace Creek 508.
Just to repeat the offer of a year ago, I will gladly take a test ride with anyone who is local, answer direct questions about anything that would be obvious to a person holding a light in their hands or riding with one. and talk tech and business with any interested party under an NDA. The rest of you will no doubt continue your wildy off target speculations instead of asking direct questions.
Part of succeeding in Silicon Valley is to keep a thick skin and not to fall prey to detractors' attempts to steer you off course in their own inability to create truly inventive and disruptive innovations themselves.
The patent approval has dramatically increase the valuation of my intellectual property, separate from potential revenues of producing and selling products myself. I don't go on the TV shows, I do pitch and am well received by prominent Silicon Valley hardware funders, who have very professional understandings of this.
Moving beyond bicycles, I'm working with two separate motorcycle headlighting joint ventures to bring disruptive innovation to the motorcycle market. My work on the motorcycle headlights is design and product development side, with the partners making significant investments of their own, so I won't encounter the funding and production obstacle based delays that the bike light is gradually but steadily fighting it's way through.
Helmet side up,
Barry

 

[N8N]

I've been saying for a while that I would love to have a bike light with a proper shaped beam without the current limitations of StVZO. I'm currently running a B&MM IQ Cyo (old version) and like it, but a wider beam pattern may not be necessary but would make me feel more comfortable. I'm assuming that this is also where you're going with this?

Any plans to make this light convertable to use on a nominal 6V hub dyno?

Does the light step down at normal riding speeds, or does it only tend to heat up when run on full power and sitting still?

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like there's a lot of market for a shaped beam light in the US as it seems like most mass market bike lights are simple flashlight-like symmetrical beams, with the exception of some German imports which conform to StVZO. I really hope I'm wrong as I suspect that the only reason that there isn't significant public complaint about glare from high powered bicycle lights is the small numbers that are actually in use.

 

[Esko]

Thanks for an informative and a polite message, Barry.

Regarding the battery, I prefer 18650 due to the superior availability and weight/power ratio. If one wants to power the light with a single cell only, of course, 26650 can provide more energy.

I checked your patent and I must say that I am a bit confused. This is it, right?

http://www.freshpatents.com/-dt20120405ptan20120081887.php

(US 2012/0081887 A1)

I tried to google but couldn't find anything else.

If it is this one, IMHO it is a bit too broad. It tries to cover the lighting system, brake light system and some other features. I think you should have filed separate applications for different features.

Anyway, I was interested in seeing your beam shaping solutions. It can't be seen from the patent though. While the drawings may give some hints, the description sounds like a pretty ordinary bike headlight with the exception that the housing acts as the front lens ("secondary beam shaper").

So, what is it that actually is patented? Regarding to the actual headlight, the patent covers a single piece front lens that acts as a housing to the collimator, too. Interestingly enough, Oculus doesn't seem to be covered by the patent because the first claim states that the power source consists of "multiple electrical power storage cells" (direct quote). Oculus uses only one cell. It also states that the battery array "is attachable to irregular surfaces, and non-planar surfaces" (direct quote). Many if not most bike lights and light mounts are attachable to circular surfaces (handlebars) but not to irregular surfaces. I suppose that those lights wouldn't be covered, either.