New Surefire EB1 Clicky (Beamshots added) - Review and runtime results

[Quiksilver]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

The highlight of this EB1 light is the nearly 11k lux, and will be one of the best throwers in the EDC class. At least, it will at turn on, and for a little while thereafter.

While other lights do offer flatter regulation by far, this light has some things going for it, and it will perform equal or better than its E1B predecessor until the 50 minute mark.

So, I'd say that if you typically use your EDC light for short term use, and recharge batteries before 50 minutes, it's all on the up-side vs the E1B.
There are reasons some will really like this light, and reasons that some will hate it.
Classic SureFire.

I never intended to buy this light anyway, so it's of no concern to me, but I like to study the new lights coming on to the market, just for my own knowledge.

Could the addition of:

1. More lux

2. Spring on the (+) side of the battery compartment

... Be an indication that the EB1 can pull backup duty as a mounted weaponlight?

E1B isn't shaped properly for weaponlight duty, and the lack of forward spring means recoil cuts the connection and can cause it to jump into low mode.

 

[AZPops]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

Great write up! Thanks!

 

[twl]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

Could the addition of:

1. More lux

2. Spring on the (+) side of the battery compartment

... Be an indication that the EB1 can pull backup duty as a mounted weaponlight?

E1B isn't shaped properly for weaponlight duty, and the lack of forward spring means recoil cuts the connection and can cause it to jump into low mode.

Maybe they(SureFire) might be thinking that, perhaps.
I really don't know what they are thinking.

 

[Maxbelg]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

How is the durability? Some of us buy SureFire not for the lumens, but for other factors........

From what I've seen, I'd suspect that the durability will be similar to the E1B/L1. Are there really people who buy Surefire for lumens, or do you mean throw (lux)? If you want more lumens there are a gazillion options, if you want more throw in a similar package options are limited. If I'm not looking for throw I prefer my HDS modded with a high cri Nichia 219 in this size, but for a nice throwy beam, the L1 on RCRs excels. It even has more throw than my LX2 and my M60W. If I can find a better thrower with similar runtimes on rechargeables in the same size and of similar quality, I'm interested. Therefore my initial interest in the EB1. So far I'm not convinced.

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

Could the addition of:

1. More lux

2. Spring on the (+) side of the battery compartment

... Be an indication that the EB1 can pull backup duty as a mounted weaponlight?

E1B isn't shaped properly for weaponlight duty, and the lack of forward spring means recoil cuts the connection and can cause it to jump into low mode.

There have been others who have commented on the apparent commonality of some sections of the EB1 and the X300 Ultra WeaponLight.

How is the durability?

Some of us buy SureFire not for the lumens, but for other factors. Do the internal parts look robust? Tailswitch feel strong?

Obviously to some extent we are relying on SF reputation for durability, but is the build quality look to the same standard as say the old E1B or is it more in line with the build quality of the 6PX/G2X/Fury line?

Here are some of my initial observations on the subject from another thread:

The fit and finish of both versions of the SF Backup are excellent as expected and the lights appear to originate from the same manufacturing process unlike, for example, a SF 6P and a SF 6PX placed next to each other. These E1B's and EB1 seem to definitely be from the old school of SF construction i.e. it appears that they can be disassembled for repair rather than tossed and replaced like the SF 6PX and the Fury.

Whatever process SF uses to do the matte finish on the black Backups seems to work and wear well. Under bright light you can see some variation in the tint of the sections of the EB1 but it is so close that you would never notice it otherwise. It has been argued here that SF's are 'illumination tools', aesthetics don't matter to Rambo etc. but I do appreciate it when I get a good looking product for the premium price that I paid. Now, about that LED tint...

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...n-Flashlight&p=4074045&viewfull=1#post4074045

The runtime plots published here agree with my brief experience with the EB1. It's really bright out of the box for a while and then the output rapidly drops.

As an added bonus, as the output declines the tint of the LED on my light automatically shifts toward that region where your eye is most sensitive (undoubtedly a brilliant design to counteract the reduction of lumens with time ). My EB1 gets greener and greener as the battery runs down.

I do appreciate the fact that LED SF's tend to have a long tail on the output curve that will get you to the battery change.

I realize as Quicksilver says folks buy SF for a lot of other reasons than the light output but I do think that it is a spec for discussion.

Did SF intentionally pass on better regulation in order to meet the advertised 200 lumen mark with a less expensive LED?

 

[Maxbelg]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

S

.......As an added bonus, as the output declines the tint of the LED on my light automatically shifts toward that region where your eye is most sensitive (undoubtedly a brilliant design to counteract the reduction of lumens with time ).........

I might have to get one after all: my L1 lacks this feature and stays a boring white even on low! No seriously I almost killed myself laughing!:laughing:

 

[brianna]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

880arm very nice review. We can tell you put a lot of time and effort into it. I too am going to pass on the light. I just can't get passed the poor regulation.

 

[Monocrom]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

Nice review.

I'm just happy to see the EB1 is out there.

 

[Foskey]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

Drool! Thanks for the very informative review. I must pick one of these up in the near future.

 

[Mojer]

Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

Hello,

I am still trying to decide between these two lights. I have read the reviews, looked at the graphs, ect. However, I am wondering what the overall actual real life experience between these two lights is (for those of you fortunate enough to have both). Is there a significant difference in throw, ect that is more noticable in the EB1? Any feedback on these two lights would be much appreciated.

 

[Kestrel]

Re: Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

I am still trying to decide between these two lights. I have read the reviews, looked at the graphs, ect. However, I am wondering what the overall actual real life experience between these two lights is (for those of you fortunate enough to have both). Is there a significant difference in throw, ect that is more noticable in the EB1? Any feedback on these two lights would be much appreciated.

Hello Mojer, I have merged your thread with this new review thread. There has also been much recent discussion in the main EB1 thread (i.e. in the past few days) comparing the few EB1's already in private hands with the popular E1B - lux measurements, runtime, etc.

 

[880arm]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

Thanks for a great review. I have decided not to get this light. I just don't like flashlights with this type of poor regulation. Your needs might differ of course and regulation might not be important for your usage, but I prefer both the E1B and my L1. I especially like my L1 6th generation on IMRs! It would be interesting to see a graph comparing the EB1 to the L1 with RCRs in terms of total output and throw.

Using an AW16340 my L1 hit 7,373 lux @ 1m (measured at 5m and converted to 1m result as before). As far as output is concerned, the L1, using a rechargeable, holds its own pretty well against the EB1. In my test, the L1 ran for 40 minutes before the battery protection kicked in.

 

[880arm]

Re: Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

How is the durability?

Some of us buy SureFire not for the lumens, but for other factors. Do the internal parts look robust? Tailswitch feel strong?

Obviously to some extent we are relying on SF reputation for durability, but is the build quality look to the same standard as say the old E1B or is it more in line with the build quality of the 6PX/G2X/Fury line?

E1B was very good in hand, not pleased that the EB1 seems to be a larger light in general.

How does the weight compare?

My E1B measures 68g (no battery)

The parts and pieces seem comparable in quality to the E1B. The bodies are essentially the same with the only major difference being the tail threads are extended to accommodate the longer tailcap. The innards of the two tail switches appear the same with the exception of the longer spring on the EB1 tailcap. The head on the EB1 does not feel as "dense" (for lack of a better word) as the E1B head but it does not feel insubstantial in any way. The threads on both lights feel essentially the same (after a small amount of lube).

According to the packaging, the EB1 is 12 grams heavier than the E1B.

 

[Vox Clamatis in Deserto]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

Using an AW16340 my L1 hit 7,373 lux @ 1m (measured at 5m and converted to 1m result as before). As far as output is concerned, the L1, using a rechargeable, holds its own pretty well against the EB1. In my test, the L1 ran for 40 minutes before the battery protection kicked in.

A late model L1 on an RCR123 is still hard to beat. The venerable XR-E handles the power just fine and the low level using the RCR is a little more that I want but it still lasts a long time. I like using rechargeables with the option of using primaries for backup in case the power is out for a while.

Your great plots above show that both the L1 and E1B attempt to maintain output in this single cell configuration. I just thought SF would be a little further along with the regulation and emitter by now in the EB1.

The good thing about having ten lights on the kitchen table for comparison is that my wife doesn't notice the new one... :devil:

 

[880arm]

Re: Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

Hello,

I am still trying to decide between these two lights. I have read the reviews, looked at the graphs, ect. However, I am wondering what the overall actual real life experience between these two lights is (for those of you fortunate enough to have both). Is there a significant difference in throw, ect that is more noticable in the EB1? Any feedback on these two lights would be much appreciated.

Well, after one day, my real life experience is that the EB1 absolutely kills the E1B with regard to throw and output, just as the specs would suggest. So far I am very impressed with the E1B's output. The beam tint on the two I have is noticeably different when comparing them side by side but I never really thought about it while using the light for its intended purpose. I'm curious to see how this plays out in the long run after I have gone through a few sets of batteries.

I don't have any beamshot comparisons to show you but I did snap a couple of pictures today that happen to illustrate why I like TIR based lights in general. In this instance I was wanting to look into the darkened area shown in the photo on the left. The distance to the front sill of the furnace was about 40 feet while the distance to the back of the darkened area of the sidewell is around 75-80 feet. In the second photo you can see how the tight beam illuminates the area perfectly without returning a ton of glare off the surrounding furnace structure.

Again, this is no comparison between lights as I'm sure the E1B would have done the job, just not nearly as bright.

As a point of comparison, note the difference between the EB1 and the "headlights" on the hydraulic ram that can be seen reflecting off the front of the furnace.

 

[Maxbelg]

Re: New Surefire EB1 Clicky - Review and runtime results

Using an AW16340 my L1 hit 7,373 lux @ 1m (measured at 5m and converted to 1m result as before). As far as output is concerned, the L1, using a rechargeable, holds its own pretty well against the EB1. In my test, the L1 ran for 40 minutes before the battery protection kicked in.

Thanks so much for doing this!!! This is exactly what I wanted to know. For me personally your data proves that I don't "need" to upgrade just yet. The L1 still rocks! Having said this, I can see that the EB1 might be very interesting to those who don't use rechargeable batteries and want similar output.

As far as rechargeable set-ups go: If I combine your chart with the one in this thread, post 232:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...ureFire-EB1-Backup-200-Lumen-Flashlight/page8
I come to the conclusion that running the L1 and the EB1 on their optimal rechargeable set-ups gives the EB1 a bit more output, but shorter runtime. (+-25minutes vs 40 minutes). So on rechargeable batteries I personally still prefer the L1.

 

[N/Apower]

Re: Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

I won't be replacing my current M600C weapon light with an upgraded M300A any time soon. All the "tube" is forward of my hand, and the head isn't in the muzzle-blast yet, even on my 10.5", and the weight is negligible.

Thank-you for data!

 

[Quiksilver]

Re: Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

has anyone measured the Area Under Curve comparison of E1B and EB1?

 

[Maxbelg]

Re: Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

The one thing that might entice me to buy the EB1 after all if is the runtime plot looks very different with intermittent usage. (i.e. that the poor regulation is actually thermal step-down or something like that).

Eagerly awaiting a runtime plot with intermittent (e.g. 5minutes on/ 5minutes off) usage as you suggested!!! Please 880arm when you find the time I'm sure this would be really useful information for a lot of potential buyers. Maybe we could send you some PP funds for some more batteries? :bow:

 

[brianna]

Re: Real life experiences - E1B vs EB1

The one thing that might entice me to buy the EB1 after all if is the runtime plot looks very different with intermittent usage. (i.e. that the poor regulation is actually thermal step-down or something like that).? :bow:

The poor regulation has nothing to do with thermal step down or something like that. It is caused by pushing the battery to the limit. It simply can not keep up with the power demand. Regulation going south like this is the result of lumen wars. In the end regulation will have to suffer to produce lots of lumens. I rather have a smooth regulation chart with less lumens, but that will never win the lumen war Surefire is playing with this new light.