New warm white LED lights at Lowes

[EngrPaul]

Here's an update on the Utilitech lights from Lowes.

Mine listed a reduced price of just under $45.

When I got it to the register, it was reduced further (no coupon or anything). Final price $40.47

The cable disconnects from the wall wart using an RCA-jack, so you CAN pass the cable through holes (unlike the display :thinking

The wall wart has an on-off switch (little flimsy gray slide switch, hard to find but works OK once you do). Also unlike the display

The "pucks" have the connecting cords wrapped around them. To extend them closer or further away from each other, just unravel them.

Each puck installs with a single screw. Too easy!

The color is neutral/warm, they do not flicker. Great CRI to my eyes. :twothumbs

I'm using them at my computer desk, which is basically a hutch and credenza. The amount of light they throw out is PERFECT. I'm sitting here typing in complete comfort. Everything on the desk appears sharp and reading is easy, but I'm not squinting in any way.

The hutch has a single halogen two-stage light, which is set back too far. When it's on, it's too bright. The Utilitech LED's are hidden from view, just behind the lip of the hutch.

I really like these lights afterall. Perhaps they made some improvements vs. the display model, or they have a "theft resistant" display without the wall wart disconnect.

Sometimes it's worth opening up the box to see what's inside.

Bottom line, worth the current $40 price.

 

[EngrPaul]

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Thanks for posting these photos, EngrPaul! In the first photo, are the LEDs the only source of overhead illumination?

 

[EngrPaul]

Thanks for posting these photos, EngrPaul! In the first photo, are the LEDs the only source of overhead illumination?

The room is illuminated overhead by a 2-bulb fan light, the desktop is illuminated by LED's only. Halogen is off. :thumbsup:

P.S. Camera is set to "tungsten" white balance.

 

[usLEDsupply]

for some nice warm white under cabinet lights we have installed the Warm White Flex Strips from usLEDsupply on a job and they were really happy tho we had to put a dimmer inline so they could be dimmed down as they were a bit to bright if you want to leave them on when you aren't cooking or want indirect lighting

for this job we only needed 1/2 of a roll to do the whole kitchen (you can buy in any quantity but you have to ask)
the counter was glossy black granite so it had quite a shine but it looked good
the strip is cuttable every 3" so it made it easy to fit to the cabinets and they have connectors to rejoin them or you can just solder wires on them after you cut it (we just ordered them pre-cut and pre-soldered for $1 more and ran 18ga wire through the wall before drywall to go around the sink and stove rather than having 2x power supplies)
we used the 2A PWM Dimmer and put it under the counter along the edge so you could easily dim them at night even down to 5% for a night light
for the power supply we used a 48W power supply (stuck on top of the cabinets) so it was out of the way
i don't have any pictures of this job yet but if i make it back there i will get some or i will try to remember to take them on the next one we do

i think the price for everything was about $80 in parts for 8' of lighting

 

[seestuff]

for some nice warm white under cabinet lights we have installed the Warm White Flex Strips from usLEDsupply on a job and they were really happy tho we had to put a dimmer inline so they could be dimmed down as they were a bit to bright if you want to leave them on when you aren't cooking or want indirect lighting

for this job we only needed 1/2 of a roll to do the whole kitchen (you can buy in any quantity but you have to ask)
the counter was glossy black granite so it had quite a shine but it looked good
the strip is cuttable every 3" so it made it easy to fit to the cabinets and they have connectors to rejoin them or you can just solder wires on them after you cut it (we just ordered them pre-cut and pre-soldered for $1 more and ran 18ga wire through the wall before drywall to go around the sink and stove rather than having 2x power supplies)
we used the 2A PWM Dimmer and put it under the counter along the edge so you could easily dim them at night even down to 5% for a night light
for the power supply we used a 48W power supply (stuck on top of the cabinets) so it was out of the way
i don't have any pictures of this job yet but if i make it back there i will get some or i will try to remember to take them on the next one we do

i think the price for everything was about $80 in parts for 8' of lighting

I went to usLEDsupply site and looked at the strips you're talking about. I like it. I may have gone that route if I'd known about it. It looks easy to install. I really like the dimmable feature. However I would much prefer to be able to control the on/off AND dimming via the traditional wall switch location. I realize that the major problem with having a dimmable wall switch for the new led technology is the fact that the traditional 120V 15A light circuit has to be stepped down with a transformer. And it's quite impractical to cram a transformer/dc converter/dimmer into even a deep wall switch box.

I believe the future of efficient lighting is LED. But it seems that some conventions will have to change to make it more practical. I'm all for changing over to LED light throughout my household but I don't want the inefficiency and trouble of a big honkin' transformer for every light in the house. Maybe if the LED industry would come up with a convention for LED home lighting standards for the power requirements, then maybe wiring for this new lighting could be wired into new (and retrofitted into existing) homes. I know that DC current doesn't travel well and that's why AC is the standard for transmitting power over long distances. But would it be practical to have a stepdown transformer/converter at the service entrance to a home and distribute 12V DC via smaller (therefore less expensive) wire throughout the house alongside or in leiu of the 14ga light circuit? Then all that would be needed is a current regulator in the standard wall switch for on/off/dimming. Convenient, efficient, & clean.

Am I missing something here?

 

[usLEDsupply]

yes we have run into customers that want the to be able to dim with a standard wall switch dimmer so we have found a few options

1. there are 12v PWM dimmers that go in a standard wall box for about the same price (usledsupply just doesn't have them on their site yet) that work well but you have to be able to run a 18-4 low voltage control cable to the sw box from the transformer/lights (works great if you haven't dry-walled yet or have an open basement
2. if you can get a dimmable 12v transformer (they are more expensive) but you can dim with a standard A/C dimmer
3. they also have some wireless remote keychain dimmers (not online yet either) that i have taken apart and wired into a toggle type switch for a battery powered switch that you can stick anywhere

i agree with you on the 12v line in houses when i build my house i plan on running 12v lines along with the A/C so i have lots of options and i think i will have all my lighting be 12v LED so it can be run off solar/wind power as well as with a transformer in needed. as for the voltage drop with led lights you can have long runs with no trouble (we have done it on several jobs)
we just use 18-4 un-shielded control cable from our electric supplier it only runs about $185 per 1000' spool so it's not to bad and you can use it for the RGB strips as well

 

[seestuff]

18-4 between the sw box and the transformer/lights?
So #1 Neutral from box to trans & lights, #2 Hot 120v from box to trans, #3 12v return leg from trans to box, #4 12v through pulse width modulation dimmer switch to lights? Have I got that right?
How much are the PWM switches? Are they toggles with slider on the side?

Yeah, I'd love to set up a solar system for my home (with a grid tie-in to sell my surplus for credit back to my utility company). And have low voltage light circuits with warm white LEDs throughout the house. And that's just a few of the things I'd like to have in a home. But a solar system that could provide enough to make it worthwhile would probably start around $15K. I'd have to be in a place that I plan stay a long time to recover the initial costs for many of the energy saving ideas that I have. And I ain't in that place now.

 

[usLEDsupply]

18-4 between the sw box and the transformer/lights?
So #1 Neutral from box to trans & lights, #2 Hot 120v from box to trans, #3 12v return leg from trans to box, #4 12v through pulse width modulation dimmer switch to lights? Have I got that right?
How much are the PWM switches? Are they toggles with slider on the side?

Unless you have a dimmable transformer
the 18-4 wire goes from the dimmer switch to the transformer/lights
you would hook 2 of the wires to the 12v transformer output Black (-) and White (+) and on the switch end put them on the input of the PWM Dimmer
then connect the remaining 2x wires to the 12v output of the PWM Dimmer Red (+) and Green (-) and back at the transformer end connect them to the Led Flex Strip and that is it

there are several options as far as dimmers and i think they are all around $20-25 I'm sure you can get other ones somewhere else too

 

[seestuff]

OK, I understand.
The dimmer switch with the Chinese(?) symbols looks OK for use in the house. Of course I would prefer it without the Eastern script. I presume that fits in a 1 gang space and the knob would cover a common toggle wallplate opening?
The other wallmount switches look like they would only be asthetically suitable on my garage wall.

Couple of things I wonder about though (not that I expect you to answer these):
Do the PWM switches cause noise in the household circuits? and/or generate RF noise that interfere with TVs, stereos, etc.?
Would it be better to use current regulators?
If we all were to adopt something like the idea I mentioned earlier, clean 12V DC distributed throughout the house, would the switch/dimmer devices be simpler and therefore cheaper?

I'd like to see dimmer devices like the Lutron Toggle with the slider on the side. Then you can maintain that traditional look and use the same toggle wallplates. Like this:


By seemystuff

BTW there's another 3 gang bank of dimmers above this for Front Porch, Cove lighting, and Outdoor lighting of my driveway. My electrician buddy is at least as eccentric as I am, so I've got plenty of switches in the remodeled parts of my house.

 

[seestuff]

Now that I've figured out how to post full sized pictures, heres what the two sets of Utilitec Warm LEDs from Lowe's look like:

As I described before, I rewired one set so that I could extend the wire over the sink through the chase I built across the top of the cabinets. This way i have 2 pucks on the left and 4 pucks on the right side side of the sink.
This photo was taken (with Rebel XTi 24mm, f/4, Exposure 1/5, ISO 800) at night with all other lights off.

 

[blasterman]

I'm all for changing over to LED light throughout my household but I don't want the inefficiency and trouble of a big honkin' transformer for every light in the house.

It's a conclusion that most have us arrive at when we start realizing how much potential and flexibility there is with state of the art LED lighting. Or, we realize that what's available in the lighting aisle of Walmart doesn't represent the pinnacle of lighting technology. My last point is perhaps more of a problem than the issue of reducing energy consumption, which I find beyond aggravating.

Maybe if the LED industry would come up with a convention for LED home lighting standards for the power requirements, then maybe wiring for this new lighting could be wired into new (and retrofitted into existing) homes

Having DC lines running alongside AC like usLEDsupply mentioned above is one solution. I believe it was in the early 70's when you started seeing engineers concluding that running 120/240VAC to all households was going to eventually cause more problems than it solved in terms of long distance transmission.

However, I need to remind you that most of the electronics in your home, including flat screen TV, stereo / AV gear, computers etc. dont run off of native 120/240VAC either and require transforming to low voltage / high current DC. So, we have a bit of a double-standard here because this isn't exactly a problem only with LEDs.

 

[seestuff]

It's a conclusion that most have us arrive at when we start realizing how much potential and flexibility there is with state of the art LED lighting. Or, we realize that what's available in the lighting aisle of Walmart doesn't represent the pinnacle of lighting technology. My last point is perhaps more of a problem than the issue of reducing energy consumption, which I find beyond aggravating.


Having DC lines running alongside AC like usLEDsupply mentioned above is one solution. I believe it was in the early 70's when you started seeing engineers concluding that running 120/240VAC to all households was going to eventually cause more problems than it solved in terms of long distance transmission.

However, I need to remind you that most of the electronics in your home, including flat screen TV, stereo / AV gear, computers etc. dont run off of native 120/240VAC either and require transforming to low voltage / high current DC. So, we have a bit of a double-standard here because this isn't exactly a problem only with LEDs.

Good point about the other appliances in the home. Now that you mention it I do have a bunch of wall/cord-warts just on my desk alone. So I should expand my statement to include the entire electronics industry to come up with the most practical DC Voltage that most electronics products are ready to consume with little or no manipulation. That would make the investment in a transformer/DC-converter at the service entrance of your home even more valuable.
Let's just hypothetically say that the new alternative household power source is 12V with 10A light circuits and 15A receptacle circuits. And let's refer to this new convention as "LowV Power". Then you run the appropriate sized wires alongside the traditional (120v 15A light/20A rec) circuits. It's alot of extra wiring, but the reality is that the traditional appliances will still be around so the traditional circuits would have to phase out over many decades as the masses adopt the new "LowV Power" products and invest in the "LowV Power" wiring.
The other part of it would have to be the concerted effort of manufaturers providing a way to bypass the power input manipulation blocks using the alternative "LowV Power Plug". Then from that point forward all the new electronics can operate more efficiently and without the huge pile of wall/cord-warts or built-in trans/converter blocks wasting energy as heat.
I wouldn't expect the power production and distribution networks to change to DC. Since a rotating generator ouputs a sine wave current anyway, why not just transmit it the way it's made and convert it one time at the meter. But I'm curious how long it would take for the cost of emplenting the alternative "LowV Power" system to pay for itself in energy savings.
I know this idea sounds a bit far fetched, but we gotta start somewhere. Burning all these hot-wires around my house is kinda low-brow with all the LED technology evolving today. But powering this new technology needs to be made more practical.

And to be clear, I would love to see the free market (not power-hungry bureaucrats or windbag Nobel Prize "winners") drive this possible evolution.

 

[usLEDsupply]

in a way we are on the right track
most small devices are making there power cables with the small usb connection on them (for charging from your laptop) but it has become a standard and you even see 12v inverters and wall adapters with the usb port on them for charging these devices tho they are 5v it wouldn't take much of a transformer to to make 12v into 5v so someone could make up a usb charge hub that runs on 12v

also with the low current of led lighting you can get long runs without the age old problem of voltage drop but as you start adding removable devices like tv's and laptops you will have to size accordingly tho CA has new laws coming out saying that TV manufactures will have to make new models meet the new low power TV standards. So they are on the right track

I think there needs to be some new well designed 12v power supplies that could efficiently handle a wide load range, Then you could install 2-4 in different parts of the house to power a low voltage grid
i think as we get more led and solar people there will be more products designed with the 12v users in mind especilay as electric prices rise there will be more demand for energy savings and when people realize most electronic devices have a transformer that uses power whether the device is on or not there will be more of a driving force
the TED Company that makes power monitoring devices for houses has had an extreme demand for their meters in the past 5 months since they have partnered with google power meter and currently have over 1000 people on their back order list, So there must be some people looking to save on their energy bills

 

[Random Guy]

Good point about the other appliances in the home. Now that you mention it I do have a bunch of wall/cord-warts just on my desk alone. So I should expand my statement to include the entire electronics industry to come up with the most practical DC Voltage that most electronics products are ready to consume with little or no manipulation. That would make the investment in a transformer/DC-converter at the service entrance of your home even more valuable.
Let's just hypothetically say that the new alternative household power source is 12V with 10A light circuits and 15A receptacle circuits. And let's refer to this new convention as "LowV Power". Then you run the appropriate sized wires alongside the traditional (120v 15A light/20A rec) circuits. It's alot of extra wiring, but the reality is that the traditional appliances will still be around so the traditional circuits would have to phase out over many decades as the masses adopt the new "LowV Power" products and invest in the "LowV Power" wiring.
The other part of it would have to be the concerted effort of manufaturers providing a way to bypass the power input manipulation blocks using the alternative "LowV Power Plug". Then from that point forward all the new electronics can operate more efficiently and without the huge pile of wall/cord-warts or built-in trans/converter blocks wasting energy as heat.
I wouldn't expect the power production and distribution networks to change to DC. Since a rotating generator ouputs a sine wave current anyway, why not just transmit it the way it's made and convert it one time at the meter. But I'm curious how long it would take for the cost of emplenting the alternative "LowV Power" system to pay for itself in energy savings.
I know this idea sounds a bit far fetched, but we gotta start somewhere. Burning all these hot-wires around my house is kinda low-brow with all the LED technology evolving today. But powering this new technology needs to be made more practical.

And to be clear, I would love to see the free market (not power-hungry bureaucrats or windbag Nobel Prize "winners") drive this possible evolution.

Not to rain on your parade, but there are a couple of problems with your idea. First, to supply the same amount of energy as a 15A 120VAC circuit, a 12VDC circuit would have to supply 150 amps. That would require the same size wire that connects my entire house to the electrical grid to be used throughout the home. Second, AC became the world standard because the voltage is easily changed with transformers. A transformer will not work with DC power.

However, I do think the idea is a good one. I would still make a couple of changes, though. First, 5VDC instead of 12. Many battery powered devices that have chargers that make up much of the vampire loads in the average house are going to 5V wall warts, because that is what USB provides. Second, it would supplement rather than supplant the existing 120VAC standard. High powered devices that would require large amounts of current if run at 5 or 12 volts would still use 120VAC (things like space heaters, TVs, computers, lighting, etc.) Low powered devices (chargers for phones, MP3 players, and the like) would use the new 5V standard, instead of having a dedicated wall wart. This way there would just be one larger regulated power supply for the whole house, which would also have something to do more of the time. Therefore, less power wasted due to chargers that are plugged in with nothing to do.

 

[Dave_H]

A centralized low-voltage dc supply whether 5v or 12v is not
a good solution.

Running only moderately-high currents around hundreds of
feet of wire will adversely affect both regulation (where it matters)
and efficiency. With the price of copper, even running the same
gauge as the 120v ac wiring is going to be expensive in materials
and added complexity. I hear Afghanistan or Iran has large reserves of
copper, but let's not go there. Aluminum...maybe but the underlying
problems remain.

Distributing (relatively) high-voltage low-current to the load, and
doing point-of-load conversion, is still the best way. That's how the
ac grid is set up, for a reason. Switching ac-dc conversion capability
is pretty impressive, and getting better and cheaper.

Perhaps localized ac-dc converters could be integrated into outlet
boxes, although cooling would be an issue; external heatsink plate maybe?
Anyone have lamp dimmers with wallplate heatsinks...same concept.

Another idea is a flat convertor that fits over the wall socket, feeds
through ac sockets, and adds additional low-voltage sockets. For this
I think 12-14v dc is ideal, given the number of automotive plug-in devices
available.

Dave

 

[Dave_H]

AC became the world standard because the voltage is easily changed with transformers. A transformer will not work with DC power.

A quick example of current telecom isolated dc-dc convertor
capability: a unit with 1 inch square footprint, about 1/2 cubic
inch volume, can supply 66W of regulated voltage with 80-90%
efficiency. Typically they have 48v input, but wide operating
range 36-75v and other input ranges are available.

This convertor could drive ~20A worth of LEDs, assuming in
parallel...that's brighhhhht! And there are models with higher
output current (but larger size) and different voltage options.

Granted, the above assumes forced-air cooling, maybe more
than could be provided by (say) a small CPU fan.

Dave

 

[seestuff]

I'm less of a parade guy and more of a sit around drinkin' a beer guy. If it rains I just go inside with my beer.
OK, so it's been a while since physics class. I suppose running 1/2 inch wires in your walls could be cost prohibitive and maybe even a little ridiculous :ironic:. And now that I think about it, I guess you do need to have a change in current for induction to drive the electrons in the other coil. And AC is a steadily changing current.

I realistically didn't see 240/120VAC going away.

So if it was distributed through the house as 5VDC(or 12VDC, what ever is most convenient) in addition to the traditional 120VAC, you wouldn't need it wired for heavy current draw and therefore moderate sized wires. Would it not work well to have the 120VAC circuits do the grunt work while the dedicated low voltage circuits work efficiently with the more sophisticated electronics in the house?

 

[PhotonWrangler]

So if it was distributed through the house as 5VDC(or 12VDC, what ever is most convenient) in addition to the traditional 120VAC, you wouldn't need it wired for heavy current draw and therefore moderate sized wires. Would it not work well to have the 120VAC circuits do the grunt work while the dedicated low voltage circuits work efficiently with the more sophisticated electronics in the house?

Just yesterday I saw a photo of a wallplate that had two 120v outlets and two 5vdc USB outlets on it. It seems like a good idea, and we really need to gain some commonality among all of the portable devices that currently need a different type of wall wart to charge them. It does pose some design challenges - the source power would likely need to be something much higher than 5vdc at a few amps, with local step-down and regulation at the back of each outlet. And the local regulation would need to be pretty good since the loads are typically nonlinear and prone to producing lots of noise on the bus.

The main downside of this is that you're adding a constant current draw to the household even when you're not charging anything. In addition to this, the regulator circuits would probably need to be changed out every 7-10 years when the electrolytics dry out.

**EDIT** Here's the article about the 120v outlet w/ 5vdc USB built-in. The step-down and regulation is all handled within the outlet so no external power supply is necessary. Note that they're still waiting for UL approval so I wouldn't place any orders yet.

 

[JohnR66]

The main downside of this is that you're adding a constant current draw to the household even when you're not charging anything. In addition to this, the regulator circuits would probably need to be changed out every 7-10 years when the electrolytics dry out.

A smart design could be made to go into sleep mode when no current is drawn. It would still draw power, but it would be a fraction of a watt.

Good electrolytics seldom dry out. I have a tube radio from 1960 and a stereo amp from the late 1960 and the caps are in spec. Not to say that they can't dry out. Over the last few years, there have been some defective capacitors that have made it into many consumer items. The fault is with many brands and is due to industrial espionage and just cheap components. Read about it here: http://www.badcaps.net

My computer PSU failed due to this. It was full of caps with swelled tops, some leaking. The caps used were on the badcap list.