Rant: Dealers' pick and choosing PayPal and/or merchant services regulations

[Pax et Lux]

Re: Jeers: Dealers' pick and choosing PayPal and/or merchant services regulations

Actually, I find this amusing... I'm in Britain, and we currently have a 17.5% rate of VAT (sales tax), this applies to anything bought in the UK, whether in person or by mail. The total price at a store is displayed including sales tax, and that is what people expect to pay.

Being English myself, I am constantly amazed when just about every store across North America makes a big deal of rounding down the price of something. The big sign might say it' $19.99, but you know full well that, once tax has been slapped on, you ain't gonna have change from a twenty.

All governments charge tax. It's just that traders in North America try to make the item seem like it will cost less than it does.

Onto next rant: what bugs me more than this is the way some online merchants try to draw you in with a low-low price, which they recoup with sky-high mail order costs. It's sleazy.

 

[BB]

Re: Jeers: Dealers' pick and choosing PayPal and/or merchant services regulations

All governments charge tax. It's just that traders in North America try to make the item seem like it will cost less than it does.

I probably varies by state--but in California, it is illegal to include sales taxes in the price unless there is a sign present:

If you include sales tax reimbursement in your prices, rather than itemizing it separately on your invoices or receipts, you must inform the buyer that tax is included. You can post this information at your premises in a location that is visible to purchasers; or you can include it on a price tag or in an advertisement (whichever is applicable).

Generally, it is places like snack bars and vending machines that include taxes in the price.

I actually like that the taxes are listed separately... In fact, I would like to get rid of payroll withholding taxes (income tax, Social Security Insurance, Medicare, etc.) and see people have to pay those taxes at the end of the year (or quarter). The government even buries 1/2 of your SSI taxes as an "employer contribution" so that most people don't even realize that SSI is really ~15% of their income and not the ~7.5% listed on your check. Or that there was (is?--at least there was 30 years ago) a hidden 8% Federal Sales tax on truck parts at the wholesale level.

If only more people realized how much of their money is being taken to fund other's social experiments and gifts to others ("pork barrel politics" and foreign aid, etc.).

What would folks in Europe think if they saw 17%+ tax on every bill they paid.

-Bill

 

[Brighteyez]

While the intent of the thread is somewhat understood, it seems a bit naive. Realistically, I would think that most people should be aware that things do not always work like they are supposed to.

People violate agreements or bend the law every day and in many cases it becomes the norm. Those who frequent eBay know that it is a common practice, especially for Asian sellers, to post a 99¢ price and then put the actual sales price in the shipping charges to avoid payment of fees. Rant all one might about it, it doesn't look like eBay is doing all that much about it. The practice of adding credit card surcharges was outlawed in the U.S. quite a few years ago, yet some merchants (immigrant merchants, and/or those in neighborhoods with large immigrant populations.) Some gas stations have also implemented both credit card and ATM surcharges (in addition to ATM fees) in spite of the "laws." CPF sellers have been known to impose credit card surcharges for PayPal payments. Overall, my thought is "So What?", if a potential buyer is not interested in such arrangements (and I'm not,) just ignore it and go else where. Tilting at windmills isn't all that it's cracked up to be.

And there is nothing that comes to mind that is more signficantly relevant than Reinhold Niebuhr's prayer:
"God, give us grace to accept with serenity the things that cannot be changed,
courage to change the things which should be changed,
and the wisdom to distinguish the one from the other."

Or the version made famous by the Friends of Bill W:
"God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference."

Realistically, stuff happens and sometimes we just have to exercise the wisdom and discretion to let it happen and just step back so that we don't become victims ourselves.

 

[Brighteyez]

Re: Jeers: Dealers' pick and choosing PayPal and/or merchant services regulations

Generally, it is places like snack bars and vending machines that include taxes in the price.

Probably more often vending machines, most snackbars do collect sales tax. Another more common place though, is taverns/bars where the sales tax is included into the price of a cocktail.

What would folks in Europe think if they saw 17%+ tax on every bill they paid.

-Bill

I think that's 17.5%, in the UK, and it's included in not added to the price of an item. And they call it VAT The VAT percentage varies from country to country.

 

[BB]

Here are a few tax rates...

Country / VAT
================
Switzerland 7.6%
Germany 16.0%
United Kingdom 17.5%
Netherlands 19.0%
France 19.6%
Italy 20.0%
Austria 20.0%
Belgium 21.0%
Ireland 21.0%

US (state by state sales tax) 0-8%+ (i.e., California 7-8% sales tax--depending on county/city), next door is Oregon 0% sales tax.

-Bill

 

[Brighteyez]

If you're suggesting that California has the highest sales tax, you might want to check again. There are quite a few states with sales tax rates above 9%, and they are often states that you would not think would have high sales tax rates.

Yup, you're right. Oregon does not have a sales tax. Don't know if you pay property tax, but if you do, how would you like to have a property tax bill that is 4 times what it is in California?

Thank you, but I'll stick with my State, County, and Rapid Transit tax rate. The grass isn't always greener on the other side.

BTW, Nevada doesn't have a state income tax ...

US (state by state sales tax) 0-8%+ (i.e., California 7-8% sales tax--depending on county/city), next door is Oregon 0% sales tax.

-Bill

 

[BB]

BTW, Nevada doesn't have a state income tax ...

Been thinking about that for awhile...

Yes, I know that Oregon has some counties with very high property taxes. And I was giving a range for sales taxes... Ours (counties in SF Bay Area) is around 8.75% or so... The base CA sales tax is around 7.xx% percent--counties (and some special districts) add a bit more from time to time.

Edit this out--not really on thread.

-Bill

 

[Brighteyez]

Enticing as it may seem, employers often compensate for the lack of a state income tax by paying a lower wage, and in most areas of work, the market price for an employee is going to be less in Nevada than it is in the Bay Area. Again, the grass is not greener on the other side.

Been thinking about that for awhile...
-Bill

 

[Handlobraesing]

Re: Jeers: Dealers' pick and choosing PayPal and/or merchant services regulations

I find your posts it quite hypocritical when you point to the specifics of
the letter of the law, yet you boast loudly in your sig line - a picture
encouraging duplication of keys that are prohibited from duplication.
(most government keys have this markings - warning key makers not to
duplicate without proper authority)

Define "prohibited". You can mark anything with any message you want and without a law with jurisdiction over the matter, it means just as much as parking your car in the middle of an intersection and writing "towing this car is prohibited" on the windshield.

It is *NOT* unlawful to duplicate keys simply because it is stamped as such, except a very few protected by Federal law such as postal service keys and certain military keys

There are a few states that prohibits the duplication of keys to state institutions belonging to THAT state. There are also some municipalities(the only one I'm aware of is Los Angeles county) prohibiting the duplication of anything stamped "don't copy" or equivalent, but generally, stamped warning has no legal power.

Now my turn to add offtopic stuff. A product could be "patented" overseas, but without a valid patent in this country and/or treaty to make eachothers' patents enforceable, it is not unlawful to make clones here.

Although, a cloned Luxeon that violates tradename and patents here, it is legal for them to be manufactured in Hong Kong.
It is unlawful under US law for unscrupuous dealers in the states to import them for sale.

 

[cmacclel]

Sorry but this seems like a waste of a thread.

So your not happy with the merchant informing you of an additional charge when using paypal?

Bottom line is addtional costs to the sellers always boils down to additional costs to the buyers wether they inform you of it or not.

If you don't like how the dealer conducts business then go to a different dealer that suites your needs.

If everyone abided by all the black and white out there we all would be paying taxes for out of state purchases.

Mac

 

[BB]

Enticing as it may seem, employers often compensate for the lack of a state income tax by paying a lower wage, and in most areas of work, the market price for an employee is going to be less in Nevada than it is in the Bay Area. Again, the grass is not greener on the other side.

Yet Incline Village made the 100 wealthiest counties in the US (twice)... And it is a grand total of ~2.4 miles from the California state boarder. Property prices and taxes don't look much different than California in Incline Village (cruising www.zillow.com)...

-Bill

 

[greenlight]

Wait till you go in to business and have to pay those fees, too.

 

[Handlobraesing]

Wait till you go in to business and have to pay those fees, too.

I already do pay those fees through eBay/PayPal and I'm fully aware of them. I consider them selling expense, just like the show room rent for dealerships, electricity for demo unit TVs and etc.

They could weigh the contingent operating expense against opportunity cost of not accepting credit cards. Myself and many others appreciate the protection given to us by our cards and would not have a business with merchants not accepting credit cards.

For example, if you order something from an e-tailer and pay with check or PayPal and your item doesn't arrive or arrives damaged, they can tell you "not responsible for lost/damaged goods if not insured" and basically tell you to go cry me a river. While PayPal offers very limited protection, such as complete non delivery, you're at merchants' mercy for the rest.

On the other hand, if you buy with a credit card and any of the above happens, the merchant is contracturally bound to accept liability and agree with the opinion of the credit card company's decision. Part of the contract is that they're liable for the delivery of merchandise in the conditions advertised. If the carrier damages it, it's still their fault as the carrier is an agent hired on behalf of the merchant.

Since it's sort of like FOB destination, the title of the merchandise could still be with the merchants until the goods are accepted in satisfactory conditions by the recipient.

This peace of mind for buyers, ofcourse , brings additional business.