BIGLOU
Enlightened
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- Jan 14, 2009
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- 717
I'm thinking about getting these for my LX2, since 17670s dont fit without it being bored. The price is not bad also wondering why they didnt brand them SF.
surefire rechargeable 123s
- Thread starter AardvarkSagus
- Start date
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Here's a runtime I did on a V11R that can accept a broad voltage range:
Look at the TNGY LiFePO4 run (yellow) vs. the ENLP XX (purple) and ENLP (light blue) for a rough idea on output/runtime comparo. Obviously this will vary depending on the exact circuit/driver involved.
turboBB...excellent graph!
AW LiFePO4 = 500 mAh (can't link, but check out LightHound).
K2 LiFePO4 = 600 mAh (website says mA, perhaps a typo).
Tenergy LiFePO4 = 750 mAh.
Doing some guessing (and using 750 mAh for IFR):
IMR ≈ IFR for runtime.
Using IMR/IFR you lose 13 minutes of runtime over LCR (guessing 50 minutes).
Comparing to LCR: For the cost of 13 minutes of runtime on high, a gain in safety.
If 13 minutes seems like a lot, running NiMH on medium output (70 lumens) appears to surpass the "safe" lithium runtime, and close to LCR runtime.
An additional advantage of NiMH (and some others) over IFR is the battery/light doesn't cut you off. Without warning, you'll be in the dark!
The trade-offs for safety and form factor do not seem to out weigh being left in the dark without warning. Maybe flashlight manufacturers can adapt and provide some sort of voltage drop warning before blackout.
Jake
http://www.tenergy.com/Site/LiFe-Cylindrical
AW LiFePO4 = 500 mAh (can't link, but check out LightHound).
K2 LiFePO4 = 600 mAh (website says mA, perhaps a typo).
Tenergy LiFePO4 = 750 mAh.
Doing some guessing (and using 750 mAh for IFR):
IMR ≈ IFR for runtime.
Using IMR/IFR you lose 13 minutes of runtime over LCR (guessing 50 minutes).
Comparing to LCR: For the cost of 13 minutes of runtime on high, a gain in safety.
If 13 minutes seems like a lot, running NiMH on medium output (70 lumens) appears to surpass the "safe" lithium runtime, and close to LCR runtime.
An additional advantage of NiMH (and some others) over IFR is the battery/light doesn't cut you off. Without warning, you'll be in the dark!
The trade-offs for safety and form factor do not seem to out weigh being left in the dark without warning. Maybe flashlight manufacturers can adapt and provide some sort of voltage drop warning before blackout.
Jake
http://www.tenergy.com/Site/LiFe-Cylindrical
Those TNGY's are definitely nowhere near 750mAh, they are likely closer to 400 (if even that) and the AW IFR's are just slightly worse than that (at least the ones that I have).
HOWEVER, in spite of this, I'm a huge fan as I've abused the heck out of these cells through a lot of runtime testing (often involving deep discharges) and they've held up extremely well. They have lower self-discharge than my ICR's/IMR's.
Aside from the inherently lower capacity rating and voltage, they are fantastic for lights that can utilize them.
I'm eager to see how these will perform as I've read that SF had customized the structure of their primaries (which are really the same cells as some other brands) to perform better under high current draw. Hopefully they requested some type of mod or upgrade from K2 for these too.
GLOCK22, I'd be very interested in seeing any discharge graphs if you will be creating any.
Thx!,
Tim
HOWEVER, in spite of this, I'm a huge fan as I've abused the heck out of these cells through a lot of runtime testing (often involving deep discharges) and they've held up extremely well. They have lower self-discharge than my ICR's/IMR's.
Aside from the inherently lower capacity rating and voltage, they are fantastic for lights that can utilize them.
I'm eager to see how these will perform as I've read that SF had customized the structure of their primaries (which are really the same cells as some other brands) to perform better under high current draw. Hopefully they requested some type of mod or upgrade from K2 for these too.
GLOCK22, I'd be very interested in seeing any discharge graphs if you will be creating any.
Thx!,
Tim
You need to add to your criteria: capacity, runtime, output, safety. Regarding safety, it is impressive and the best you can get with lithium ion. I don't think Surefire wanted to compromise safety and liability. You can also add the criteria for cycle time and discharge rate. Use two RCR123's and the runtime isn't too bad.
The big problem I see with lithium-ion in today's light is the sudden blackout without ample warning. Maybe IMR or unprotected ICR don't have that problem, but at the risk of a thermal runaway.
I've been looking at the specs for NiMH lights (Zebralight)....and I'm a lot more impressed with NiMH than using primaries. Zebralight's specs compare 2000 mAh NiMH with CR123A primaries. Imagine if they compared 2500 mAh NiMH vs. LCR/IMR/IFR.
I'm really thinking that if I want rechargeable+safety, go NiMH.
Jake
Which is precisely why I'm not passing judgement until I see some discharge curves. As I mentioned, it'd be interesting to see if SF has stipulated any mods to K2 to improve on their exisiting product.
Besides, not all products can use ICR's in which case this will be a good substitute for those that can take advantage of the higher voltage over NiMh but don't want to use primaries.
I tend to agree with you here. I only have one CR123A light, and it takes a single cell. And even that makes me a bit nervous. Everything else is AA or AAA eneloops. The only disadvantage (for me, anyway) is that you give up some brightness.
ecrbattery
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
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- Messages
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If you ACCIDENTALLY insert a regular SureFire SF123A primary lithium cell into the charger, would the K2 charger reject the cell or keep on going?
Maybe this is why SureFire didnt brand them SF.
Maybe this is why SureFire didnt brand them SF.
Robin24k
Flashlight Enthusiast
It doesn't detect primaries. That would be a good reason...no need to confuse consumers. K2 batteries go with the K2 charger.
WarriorOfLight
Flashlight Enthusiast
Strange thing happens to me, I ordered a charger 2xLiIon kit and two additional LiIons at a ebay shop and got a refund with this additional note:
The product has been re-called by K2 Energy. Sorry for this. We have no stock. Please forgive us for selling, we will send a cancel request. We have refunded your money in full. Michael
I did not find any infos on this recall. Does anone infos about it?
The product has been re-called by K2 Energy. Sorry for this. We have no stock. Please forgive us for selling, we will send a cancel request. We have refunded your money in full. Michael
I did not find any infos on this recall. Does anone infos about it?
Robin24k
Flashlight Enthusiast
Did you purchase those from "focusonsurvival" on eBay? I will check with K2 Energy and get back to you...
WarriorOfLight
Flashlight Enthusiast
The rechargable batteries were from "focusonsurvival", the charger kit from "batteriesinaflash". The interesing part is both are the same shop (http://www.Batteriesinaflash.com). I see this in the PayPal details.
Robin24k
Flashlight Enthusiast
They are no longer available for sale on Amazon. There's definately something going on, still waiting for a response from them...
BenChiew
Flashlight Enthusiast
Which means they have not been released yet since no one has obtained them. No?
angelofwar
Flashlight Enthusiast
Surefire seems to be going "Main Stream" RC...FINALLY!!!
Found this...awesome! I know ALOT of US companies dropped RC123's due to the all to known "Poof" issue, but it seems SF has got on board with some reliable ones.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/04/18/surefire-goes-green-ish/
I think I will be getting a set of these! Be interesting to see what they can be used with.
And just found this on the SF website...AWESOME!
http://www.surefire.com/batteries/sf2r-kit01-charger-kit.html
Found this...awesome! I know ALOT of US companies dropped RC123's due to the all to known "Poof" issue, but it seems SF has got on board with some reliable ones.
http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/2012/04/18/surefire-goes-green-ish/
I think I will be getting a set of these! Be interesting to see what they can be used with.
And just found this on the SF website...AWESOME!
http://www.surefire.com/batteries/sf2r-kit01-charger-kit.html
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Re: Surefire seems to be going "Main Stream" RC...FINALLY!!!
Thx for the MT link. There's also an ongoing thread in the bats forum:
** link outdated (two threads now merged) - thanks tBB - Kestrel **
Thx for the MT link. There's also an ongoing thread in the bats forum:
** link outdated (two threads now merged) - thanks tBB - Kestrel **
Last edited by a moderator:
Robin24k
Flashlight Enthusiast
They have been released and are available for order now. I got a sales sample last month for conducting runtime tests, which I posted in the P2X Fury thread.
As for the recall, K2 Energy has confirmed that they have not issued any recalls and that there are no safety issues with the LFP123A. They will check with that retailer and confirm what is going on, but my guess is that it was just an excuse for dropping the product or running out of stock.
As for the recall, K2 Energy has confirmed that they have not issued any recalls and that there are no safety issues with the LFP123A. They will check with that retailer and confirm what is going on, but my guess is that it was just an excuse for dropping the product or running out of stock.
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