The AA NiMH Performance Test Thread

[lightseeker2009]

This is comparison graphs Turnigy and Eneloop after 62 days storage http://forum.ixbt.com/topic.cgi?id=42:20764-76#2415
According those data Turnigy is more LSD than Eneloop

Thanks for the link but help me to read it in English please. I cant even get google translate to fix it for me.

 

[45/70]

Thanks for the link but help me to read it in English please. I cant even get google translate to fix it for me.

Hi light. Just look at the links in the third post Mikl linked to. It says the cells were discharged at 2A down to 0.9V. That's all you really need to know.

As I said earlier, in the past enloops have shown that they are capable of holding voltage better under load than the Chinese version(s) LSD cells. This is shown in the second graph, as the eneloop holds a slight edge in this regard. Also, as I said before, any capacity advantage these type cells have demonstrated under moderate loads in past tests, is likely lost after cycling 25 times or so and/or 3-6 months of actual use.

I'm not suggesting that these may not be good cells, they are likely better than "traditional" NiMh cells, but in the long run eneloops have always been shown to be a better option, at least for medium to high current drain applications. For low current drain applications, these cells may have some advantage.

Dave

Edit to add, you might want to check out one of the links to the right in that thread. there's a really nice picture of a, er, um, cat.

 

[lightseeker2009]

Edit to add, you might want to check out one of the links to the right in that thread. there's a really nice picture of a, er, um, cat.

Very very nice kitty What were we talkin about again

 

[syncytial]

Thanks for the link but help me to read it in English please. I cant even get google translate to fix it for me.

While Google Translate won't do the page with a single click, a little cut & paste of the Russian text in the post gives...

"Maybe you are interested in the comparison "Turnigy NiMH, 2200 LSD" and "Eneloop Sanyo 3HR-UTGA, 1.2V, 1900 MAh" after two months (62 days) storage at room temperature. Discharging current of 2 amperes to 0.9 volts, followed by a gradual decrease in current at constant voltage."

The graphs are the key.


- Syncytial.

 

[Sci Fii]

I am looking forward to the test results too! Unfortunately, I have been slammed at work since returning from my travels (I wouldn't exactly call it a vacation). I hope to get these on test by the end of the week.

Battery Guy,

Thanks for all you do. Your work is amazing. I see you hope to test the new Elite 2000 AA's. I remember from one of your posts elsewhere you mentioned the old Elite 1700's (maybe 1500's) had an interesting characteristic in that they had a lower initial voltage on start-up. I believe you posted a graph showing the first five seconds of run-time. If possible, might you be able to do a similar test on the new batteries. I like to play around with cheap incandescent's that use 4 AA's and these batteries seem like they would be ideal. Also, could you possibly tell me where to buy these batteries. I've searched and can only find the old 4/5 AA's. Thanks again for all your work.

 

[Battery Guy]

Greetings Everyone

The much anticipated results for the new Elite 2000s have been added to the first post. My apologies for taking so long to get this done. My "real" work life has been quite hectic and has been taking up most of my free time.

One thing that I should point out with the new Elite 2000s is that they do NOT work in a C9000. The positive terminal appears to be too large and does not protrude enough from the crimp area to make contact. Otherwise, they perform very well. I have been using 12 of these in a 64623 for a few weeks and they are doing a great job. Although, the voltage sag on these new Elite 2000 cells appears to be slightly more than the original Elite 1700 cells.

Cheers,
BG

 

[ALW248]

Thanks a lot!

Too bad that Elite 2000 does not have standard positive terminal.

I am interested in anything that have high voltage at 1A output, even if the capacity is smaller than 1Ah.

 

[45/70]

I am interested in anything that have high voltage at 1A output, even if the capacity is smaller than 1Ah.

At a mere 1A, I would think that eneloops would do a decent job. The Elite cells really don't have all that much of an advantage until you get up to 2+ Amps. Of course, if you absolutely need the extra voltage, the Elites will supply a bit higher voltage, at low discharge rates.

Dave

 

[Sci Fii]

Thanks a lot!

Too bad that Elite 2000 does not have standard positive terminal.

I am interested in anything that have high voltage at 1A output, even if the capacity is smaller than 1Ah.

Could you please explain what you mean by "does not standard positive terminal"? I have no experience with these cells. Would they not work with some lights? Thanks.

 

[Stephen Wallace]

Could you please explain what you mean by "does not standard positive terminal"? I have no experience with these cells. Would they not work with some lights? Thanks.

As per Battery Guy's description below: -

One thing that I should point out with the new Elite 2000s is that they do NOT work in a C9000. The positive terminal appears to be too large and does not protrude enough from the crimp area to make contact.

Basically, while you have a defined button - unlike some flat top li-ion cells - it is wide and very, very shallow, unlike the small protruding buttons you find on the majority of disposable or rechargeable AA cells. Despite the button, it is so shallow, they may as well be flat top cells.

This can cause issues with some lights. For instance, some lights have a very simple, mechanical method of reverse polarity protection. There is a non conducting ring around the positive contact. This ring is shallow enough for the normal positive contact on a button top cell to reach through, but the flat negative base of the cell is prevented from touching the lights positive contact by the ring. Obviously, if the button head isn't long enough, this physical barrier will also prevent the positive end of the battery touching the lights positive contact.

 

[Battery Guy]

Battery Guy,

Thanks for all you do. Your work is amazing. I see you hope to test the new Elite 2000 AA's. I remember from one of your posts elsewhere you mentioned the old Elite 1700's (maybe 1500's) had an interesting characteristic in that they had a lower initial voltage on start-up. I believe you posted a graph showing the first five seconds of run-time. If possible, might you be able to do a similar test on the new batteries. I like to play around with cheap incandescent's that use 4 AA's and these batteries seem like they would be ideal. Also, could you possibly tell me where to buy these batteries. I've searched and can only find the old 4/5 AA's. Thanks again for all your work.

I am really glad that you find the data useful.

With respect to the initial voltage, I think that you must be referring to this thread, where I plotted the voltage during the first 5 seconds of discharge for various discharge currents. I might be able to plot similar data for these cells, but I need to go back to the original data files to see if I collected the data with a sufficiently high sampling rate.

My understanding is that the "Elite" cells are the private label brand for CheapBatteryPacks.com.

Cheers!
BG

 

[Sci Fii]

Stephen Wallace,

Thanks for taking the time to give a thorough explanation to a newb. I clearly understand what you are saying. I think I should be OK after looking at my lights but I'll never know until I actually test them. I was going to order several sets of four for my 4AA lights but instead I just placed an order for one set. If they work for my purposes I'll order more later. Thanks again.

 

[ALW248]

Not only your light, the battery needs to work in your charger, too.

 

[Sci Fii]

Battery Guy,

Indeed, I find the data not only useful but also interesting. While I don't have any connection to science in my job, I've always enjoyed the field.

The link you referenced in your post is the one I was referring to. The delta between start-up and constant voltage was interesting. Seems like a rather nice quality for incandescent flashlights. I see they are basically flat tops and I've never used those before. I ordered a set to see if the flat top will be something I can work with. BTW, I know this an NIMH thread, but I've recently taken an interest in LifePO4 cells. Do you ever do any testing on those?

 

[Sci Fii]

Not only your light, the battery needs to work in your charger, too.

Yes, this may be an issue but for a short term solution I have one of those universal chargers I can use in a pinch. I need to get a real charger so this may be a reason to do so.

 

[cad3]

Thanks BG!

This was exactly what I was looking for!
I think of myself as a smart guy but reading this stuff just makes me feel like a neophyte. I see all the charts but I'm still a little confused.

You said that you liked the Elite 1700 and the Eneloop XX for that they provide/produce respectively.

Would you please elaborate? I'm guessing that one provides high power for shorter time period or... meh, I'm just confused.

I've been thinking about getting a number of Eneloops to just handle various remotes at home (plus wii remotes).

I also have a Canon 580 EXII camera flash. I was thinking about the Eneloop XX for that but was not sure the cost / value / performance was there. Your thoughts? Anyone elses thoughts?

Thanks!

-C

 

[Wrend]

In regards to XX Eneloops and the regular "1500" cycle 2000mAh ones, I think the regular ones are the better deal over all since they have 2.4x the cumulative lifetime capacity expectancy, while the XX cells only have 1.25x capacity per charge. The regular Eneloops also cost about half as much, so definitely the better value for general use, in my opinion.

The main reason to get the XX cells is if for whatever reason you really need that little bit extra run time. :shrug:

I always keep my Eneloops charged and I have extra sets so I can just switch them out whenever I need to without having to wait for them to charge.

 

[cad3]

In regards to XX Eneloops and the regular "1500" cycle 2000mAh ones, I think the regular ones are the better deal over all since they have 2.4x the cumulative lifetime capacity expectancy, while the XX cells only have 1.25x capacity per charge. The regular Eneloops also cost about half as much, so definitely the better value for general use, in my opinion.

The main reason to get the XX cells is if for whatever reason you really need that little bit extra run time. :shrug:

I always keep my Eneloops charged and I have extra sets so I can just switch them out whenever I need to without having to wait for them to charge.

Thanks for that! I have been price watching for a while, in the hopes that they would go on sale (kinda getting the feeling that isn't going to happen). Current plan is to take the plunge and get the MH-C9000 charger and 16-20 AA Eneloop ("1500"s) and 8 AAA. I like that they have spacers for C and D cells. I can't think of anything I use that would need them but it's a nifty option.

 

[Battery Guy]

Thanks BG!

This was exactly what I was looking for!
I think of myself as a smart guy but reading this stuff just makes me feel like a neophyte. I see all the charts but I'm still a little confused.

You said that you liked the Elite 1700 and the Eneloop XX for that they provide/produce respectively.

Would you please elaborate? I'm guessing that one provides high power for shorter time period or... meh, I'm just confused.

Well, the Elite 1700s are no longer available. So those plots are a bit out of date. However, you can now get the Elite 2000 cells from cheapbatterypacks.com.

But unless you need really high current (probably 3 amps or more), you are almost certainly better off with the eneloops. The Elite cells are really only worthwhile if the application calls for very high currents. The Elite 2000 are not LSD (low self discharge) and likely do not have near the cycle life of the eneloops. I am presently using the Elite 2000s in a 64623 hotwire mod and they work great, but that bulb pulls 10 amps.

For remotes, you are much, much, much better off going with the eneloops. In fact, don't even consider using the Elites for that application.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
BG

 

[ALW248]

I've been thinking about getting a number of Eneloops to just handle various remotes at home (plus wii remotes).

I also have a Canon 580 EXII camera flash. I was thinking about the Eneloop XX for that but was not sure the cost / value / performance was there. Your thoughts? Anyone elses thoughts?

For camera flash, if you use it everyday, use something like Elite if the contacts work. The high voltage at high current output would enable the flash recharge faster.

If a full charge is not enough for a single session, if you want to minimize battery change, maybe XX can eliminate the change, or reduce 2 changes to 1.

Otherwise, use Eneloop.

For remotes that do not use a lot of power, you can use the cheapest batteries, as long as they do not leak. Rechargeable less than $1 would work. Even if the batteries develop high impedance or lose capacity, they would still work very well in remotes for years. You don't need Eneloop for those.