The Official Zebralight Thread .

[Tachead]

If that's true it would be a real downer.

Yes in general I like throwers, and if I want flood I go with pure flood aka something with frosty lens. 2300 lumens (especially if it's floodier) than 1300 doesn't look too much brighter to me. Only when I use my L6vn which is 6500 lumens do I finally think "Hey! This thing is 2-3 times brighter!" Because it's a large output increase and a large throw increase.

It's true that real world use mitigates tint differences in the beam, but I still tend to notice it and it still affects me. The zero tint deviation in the beam of the MK3 HI, plus it's decently throwy, which is why it's overall my favorite light.

I guess we could email ZL and confirm. Either way, with the new higher efficiency components ZL is using, the higher efficiency of the XHP50.2, and the clear lens, the Plus should be able to hold the highest output of any ZL yet.

Yeah, beam pattern definitely affects perceived brightness. I definitely think the Plus will seem brighter then the HI though as it will likely have a much brighter spill even if it lacks the tight hotspot. It's added output will likely make up for some of the throw too although it will still likely fall short in the throw department.

In an ideal world all my lights would have a tint right on the BBL with zero tint deviation from hotspot to spill but, unfortunately lights like that are few and far between now a days(especially single emitter high output reflector based ones). So, for now, I try my hand at the tint lottery and save my smaller Nichia lights for the white wall. Hopefully one day LED tech will give us what we want. At least we are seeing improvements in CRI and output though.

 

[Tachead]

I really tried to make this work, but I can't. I'm reminded every time I use one of my least-favorite tinted lights, like last night. I was doing some work in my basement and using one of my zebralights with a yellowish tint was just a real downer. Usually when I have to do something I don't want to, but get to use a nice flashlight, at least it makes it a little more enjoyable. Of course it did the job just fine, but any light would. I want to to settle.

Shining it on a wall beforehand is simply a benchmark to know what you'll be using and experiencing for the rest of the light's lifetime.

Tuning your car to do 0-60 in 5 seconds is a hell of a lot of fun, but not something that really matters in the real world driving to work and getting groceries every day.

I know, I get a bit OCD about tints too but, it really can be a bit of a lost cause now a days when it comes to Cree and you can sure burn through a lot of money in your search(how many ZL's have you bought in the last few years Mark). Just checking Cree's Spec sheets can tell a lot and I often know what lights to avoid before I even have to try them(the old Fd Plus is a perfect example). But, then there is always still the lottery too. Sticking to higher CCT's(5000-5500K nominal) can help avoid yellow too(if you don't like yellow). 3500-4500K nominal are always going to be differing degrees of yellow even when right on the BBL. I also suggest you stick with lights that use the Nichia 219B if you want perfect tints. Or, if you want to go with Cree and ZL still I recommend the "d" models using the XM-L2 Easywhite and frosted lenses as they are 5000K nominal, have very clean tints, and have little to no tint lottery it seems. Time will tell, maybe the new "d" models will be good too.

Oh, life is rough for us tint snobs:mecry:. These are serious first world problems.

 

[Tixx]

One of the best changes of the new UI is that now the M1 mode is fixed at around 130lm instead of 60lm.

Personally I'm very happy with only that change and I don't think I'll ever use G6 and G7, mode spacing is now perfect from stock (that old 61lm M1 was a deal breaker to me)

I use the new configurations to do the following

Single click - Moonlight modes
Press and hold - High modes
Double click - Medium modes

Solves 2 issues:
This way I don't have to time the press and hold to get to moonlight, it is always a click away

Then I don't have the high pre-flash getting to medium, I only have a moonlight flash which goes unnoticed.

 

[moozooh]

What's cool about the MK4 plus isn't its 2300 lumen output (really 2300 lumen doesn't appear much brighter than 1300 lumens), but its non-pid 700 lumen output. I wonder how long it can sustain that with full regulation on a fresh 18650 cell.

The 705lm mode is PID-controlled as well, but assuming no temperature downscaling the runtime should be around 2.7–2.9 hours on a 3500mAh cell.

 

[iamlucky13]

The highest non-PID mode is actually 358 lumens. I believe them leaving the PID in brackets on the 705 lumen mode out is a typo. It says below that the "three highest output levels" are PID thermal regulated.

If that's true it would be a real downer.

The listing page now says 705 lumen mode is PID. It would have been a good assumption anyways based on the observation that lights that size don't seem to be able to continuously dissipate the heat of more than about 400 lumens of output.

One of the people involved in designing the thermal control of the Emisar D4, which is about the same size as the SC600 was very open in discussing and sharing the results of her development work, so there's some good data available about that light. Depending on ambient conditions and the maximum heat setting, it looks to me like it usually settles down in the 400-600 lumen range.

 

[gunga]

I use the new configurations to do the following

Single click - Moonlight modes
Press and hold - High modes
Double click - Medium modes

Solves 2 issues:
This way I don't have to time the press and hold to get to moonlight, it is always a click away

Then I don't have the high pre-flash getting to medium, I only have a moonlight flash which goes unnoticed.

It works in theory but I get a preflash on moonlight modes when programmed like this.

 

[Tachead]

The listing page now says 705 lumen mode is PID. It would have been a good assumption anyways based on the observation that lights that size don't seem to be able to continuously dissipate the heat of more than about 400 lumens of output.

One of the people involved in designing the thermal control of the Emisar D4, which is about the same size as the SC600 was very open in discussing and sharing the results of her development work, so there's some good data available about that light. Depending on ambient conditions and the maximum heat setting, it looks to me like it usually settles down in the 400-600 lumen range.

I am aware of Toykeeper's work. The D4 is a lot different light though(quad with comparatively inefficient driver) so, I don't know how much it really applies here.

You are right though, small lights can only dissipate so much heat and 300-500 lumens seems to be about the range for lights this size(depending on conditions of coarse). It still depends a lot on design however so, every light will be different. Various things affect a lights thermal efficiency including the emitter used(and number of emitters), driver design and components, driver/emitter MCPCB to body thermal transfer efficiency, lens transmission specs, body weight and construction, cell resistance, etc.

I don't know how practical having much higher outputs would be anyway, on lights like these, even if the heat wasn't an issue. A single 18650 can only handle so much and personally having a crazy powerful light that sucks the cell dry in 15 minutes and sheds the cycle life of the cell doing it is not what I am after. If I want more sustained output, I will go for a larger light with a higher cell capacity.

 

[Tachead]

It works in theory but I get a preflash on moonlight modes when programmed like this.

What about when you set it up this way...

Here is how I set mine up, you may want to try it as it works great for me.

Single click - I programmed my low settings of choice here, a 3 lumen and around .28 lumen setting.
Double click - This is my high mode, when I double click from off you don't get a weird preflash you can see since the single click is low. Works out great.
Press/hold - This is my medium setting, I put my most used level here which is 79 lumens. If I need more light I just hold a bit longer and get the high. The only thing you'll notice with the press/hold setup like this is it'll very briefly start at the L1 level and then kick up to your medium setting.

The reason this setup works so well is I have instant click to low, if I need more than that I just press/hold and it cycles to M then H. From off if I need medium it's quickly accessible with the press and hold and if I want high from off it will just take two quick clicks. This seems to be the best setup for how I use my light, since I use the 79 lumen and moonlight modes the most. Maybe try setting this on your G6 or G7 and see how you like it? Hope this helps

Do you still get a preflash in moonlight?

 

[twistedraven]

Well I was hoping with the more efficient emitter and/or driver, there would be more energy passed out the front of the host as light, and less energy wasted as heat. Looks like we're not quite there yet. On the other hand, the 350-400 lumen output might see an increase in runtime over previous zebralights. Maybe it will reach up to 5 hours now, which would be pretty damned good for a flat regulated runtime on 1 cell.

I too don't like the idea of short bursts of high output when a cell and/or host can't handle it, and as a result it gets regulated down really fast.

 

[Derek Dean]

If that's true it would be a real downer.

It's true that real world use mitigates tint differences in the beam, but I still tend to notice it and it still affects me. The zero tint deviation in the beam of the MK3 HI, plus it's decently throwy, which is why it's overall my favorite light.

Yep, they've actually corrected that on their webstie to show the 705 lumen level having PID. Do remember that you can adjust the temperature activation point of the PID control up/down by 5 degrees..... so you do have some leeway.

As far as tint goes, it's incredibly simple to color correct the tint of your lights. I honestly can't understand why more folks don't do it. The movie and photo industries have been doing this since color film was invented. Of course, depending on how much filtration you add, it will lessen the output a bit, but with these new generation high powered lights, and the adjustable UI, I can't think of one reason not to use a filter on the front to color correct a light. Heck, I've got several Nichia 219 lights, and I've even filtered those, only lightly, but still, and now all my lights are just the way I like them, not a squeaker in the bunch.

 

[twistedraven]

I've done the pink highlighter trick on my H600fd, and it works wonders. Plan on using filters for the H600fc once I get it. For lights with tint shift within the beam though, the filters don't solve the shift problem.

 

[sc00ts19]

What about when you set it up this way...



Do you still get a preflash in moonlight?

I have mine configured the same way and there is no preflash going into any mode. The first output you see is the moonlight, then either medium or high.

 

[Hugh Johnson]

I use the new configurations to do the following

Single click - Moonlight modes
Press and hold - High modes
Double click - Medium modes

Solves 2 issues:
This way I don't have to time the press and hold to get to moonlight, it is always a click away

Then I don't have the high pre-flash getting to medium, I only have a moonlight flash which goes unnoticed.

That sounds perfect.

 

[snowlover91]

What about when you set it up this way... Do you still get a preflash in moonlight?

Here is how I set mine up, you may want to try it as it works great for me.

Single click - I programmed my low settings of choice here, a 3 lumen and around .28 lumen setting.
Double click - This is my high mode, when I double click from off you don't get a weird preflash you can see since the single click is low. Works out great.
Press/hold - This is my medium setting, I put my most used level here which is 79 lumens. If I need more light I just hold a bit longer and get the high. The only thing you'll notice with the press/hold setup like this is it'll very briefly start at the L1 level and then kick up to your medium setting.

The reason this setup works so well is I have instant click to low, if I need more than that I just press/hold and it cycles to M then H. From off if I need medium it's quickly accessible with the press and hold and if I want high from off it will just take two quick clicks. This seems to be the best setup for how I use my light, since I use the 79 lumen and moonlight modes the most. Maybe try setting this on your G6 or G7 and see how you like it? Hope this help.

I still use this setup on my SC5 MK2 and it works great. It avoids any noticeable flashes of light since the quick click is set for the moonlight modes. I think it's the only way to set up the new UI and avoid it but it is also much better than the default UI as well. I'm glad ZL finally went with customizable drivers so we can have choices

 

[Tachead]

I still use this setup on my SC5 MK2 and it works great. It avoids any noticeable flashes of light since the quick click is set for the moonlight modes. I think it's the only way to set up the new UI and avoid it but it is also much better than the default UI as well. I'm glad ZL finally went with customizable drivers so we can have choices

Good to know. I think I will try this setup when my lights arrive.

 

[autoxer]

I still use this setup on my SC5 MK2 and it works great. It avoids any noticeable flashes of light since the quick click is set for the moonlight modes. I think it's the only way to set up the new UI and avoid it but it is also much better than the default UI as well. I'm glad ZL finally went with customizable drivers so we can have choices

I am still using this on my SC5w MK2 (thanks again snowlover91!) as well, and can't imagine it any other way now. The "preflash" is moonlight (or a very low mode) - perfect in my opinion (I would rather have a dim flash transition to a brighter light, rather than vice-versa.)

 

[scs]

Well I was hoping with the more efficient emitter and/or driver, there would be more energy passed out the front of the host as light, and less energy wasted as heat. Looks like we're not quite there yet. On the other hand, the 350-400 lumen output might see an increase in runtime over previous zebralights. Maybe it will reach up to 5 hours now, which would be pretty damned good for a flat regulated runtime on 1 cell.

I too don't like the idea of short bursts of high output when a cell and/or host can't handle it, and as a result it gets regulated down really fast.

With heat out of the way, I hope ZL can match or surpass the output and runtime performance set by Olight's M2R: 700 lumens for 1:40.

 

[Tachead]

With heat out of the way, I hope ZL can match or surpass the output and runtime performance set by Olight's M2R: 700 lumens for 1:40.

Olight has great drivers too but, the MKIII already pretty much matches the performance of the M2R and is better regulated(more flat) so, the MK IV Plus should easily surpass it with its improved driver and more efficient emitter. The M2R will always have the advantage without cooling however as it has over 2X the heatsink mass and isn't thermally regulated.

Here is a graph of output efficacy comparing the M2R vs the MKIII HI. I assume it is from the same review you got your runtime specs for the M2R from.

Courtesy of maukka.

The M2R NW has a higher efficacy but, remember that the MKIII HI is using the XHP35 HI emitter vs. the XHP35 HD in the M2R. The HI emitters have roughly 15% lower output so, if you take that into account they are almost identical in efficacy.

M2R NW: 111 lm/W
MKIII HI: 96 + 15% = 110.4 lm/W

It should also be pointed out that the MKIII HI is using a much warmer emitter with considerably higher CRI which also lowers output compared to the one the M2R uses. With this taken into account, the MKIII HI's efficacy would go even higher.

 

[Cobraman502]

Olight has great drivers too but, the MKIII already pretty much matches the performance of the M2R and is better regulated(more flat) so, the MK IV Plus should easily surpass it with its improved driver and more efficient emitter. The M2R will always have the advantage without cooling however as it has over 2X the heatsink mass and isn't thermally regulated.

Here is a graph of output efficacy comparing the M2R vs the MKIII HI. I assume it is from the same review you got your runtime specs for the M2R from.

Courtesy of maukka.

The M2R NW has a higher efficacy but, remember that the MKIII HI is using the XHP35 HI emitter vs. the XHP35 HD in the M2R. The HI emitters have roughly 15% lower output so, if you take that into account they are almost identical in efficacy.

M2R NW: 111 lm/W
MKIII HI: 96 + 15% = 110.4 lm/W

It should also be pointed out that the MKIII HI is using a much warmer emitter with considerably higher CRI which also lowers output compared to the one the M2R uses. With this taken into account, the MKIII HI's efficacy would go even higher.

Great info I was going to by the M2R but it's to big for EDC for me. The M1R was supposed to be released but when I called Olight they said not until fall 2018. I was shocked and said ok I'll go but the Zebralight with High CRI and uses 18650 that's the size of your M1R.

 

[Tachead]

Great info I was going to by the M2R but it's to big for EDC for me. The M1R was supposed to be released but when I called Olight they said not until fall 2018. I was shocked and said ok I'll go but the Zebralight with High CRI and uses 18650 that's the size of your M1R.

Yeah, Olight makes pretty nice lights too but, I think ZL are a fair notch up from them in a number of ways. I bet your new SC64c will actually be smaller and lighter then the M1R when it is released even though it only uses an 18350. It does have some nice features too though like the tail switch and built in magnetic charger but, the MxR series are tactical lights and their features and design are tailored to that purpose. ZL's features and design are much better suited to EDC imo.