The Quark lights thread! (Part 5)

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jcw122

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The Reason Behind the Pre-Flash

I can't post the private e-mail from 4Sevens, but what they said about the pre-flash was that it is a hardware limitation opposed to a design flaw. With the circuit they use, they could have removed the pre-flash, but then moonlight and low modes would have been extremely inefficent. I think I would like to keep their awesome runtimes so I'm fine with that!

P.S. Thanks Unforgiven, didn't know I wasn't allowed to post private e-mails.
 

bcwang

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also, i was disappointed to see that i can not tell much of a difference between the quark's moonmode and the nitecore D10's lowest level. i was expecting it to be half as bright or lower. quark's moonmode might be a hair dimmer, but not much more.

Strange, based on the specs the quark AA will last 4 times longer than the D10 in moon mode so it's definitely using less power. Are you comparing them side by side or based on memory? Everytime I use moon mode on the quark my eyes are already adapted and it seems much brighter than I'd normally think. Using it in normal lighting conditions it looks like the light isn't even on. So it is very relative to conditions.
 

wapkil

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Re: The Reason Behind the Pre-Flash

I can't post the private e-mail from 4Sevens, but what they said about the pre-flash was that it is a hardware limitation opposed to a design flaw. With the circuit they use, they could have removed the pre-flash, but then moonlight and low modes would have been extremely inefficent. I think I would like to keep their awesome runtimes so I'm fine with that!

For those more familiar with drivers internals, they also wrote that they use a pull-up resistor to minimize the flash but to make it unnoticeable they would need lower resistance which would result in lower efficiency.
 

Shimmy

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Well, my Quark AA2 regular cool white was arrived today...

Honestly can't say I am completely pleased... was I expecting too much? (first real light).

The threads seem a bit rough and were a bit dirty it seemed, scraped a fingernail through the threads and the stuff in them was not a grease/oil (that I know of), it was a soft/solid matter, pliable... could move it around, stretch it etc...

How much of a difference is there supposed to be between the 70 and 170 lumins when in a dark room?
There is a difference, but not that much... more of a noticeable difference between the 18 and 70 modes.
This is with both the alkalines it came with and eneloops.

Is the clip removable? I thought I read it was... I can't figure out how.

How hard is the clicky supposed to be to press? Mine at times can be a bit difficult to press.

Also with the clicky, it seems sometimes when changing between modes (half pressing) that it won't change every time, somtimes will blink but stay on the same mode.
Not sure if this is me or the clicky (does it require a certain distance/pressure before changing)?

Overall, it is a nice light, just curious on the above questions.

Cheers.

EDIT:
Just checked it outside (night time here) and used both the 170 and 70 modes, there is virtually no point in using the 170 mode over the 70, the spill is a tad brighter, the spot a tad brighter but the difference to me is small enough it does not light up anything enough over the 70 mode to use it. This was a distance of about 15m and about 60m (2 different trees)

Don't get me wrong the 70 mode is quite bright and is pretty much what I would use most of the time, but if the 170 mode is meant to be any brighter than mine is I most certainly would like it to be.

So, going back to my first question... was I expecting too much from it?
 
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Nake

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Shimmy,

You're not going to get 170lm unless you're using a Li-Ion (4v) battery. Another name for it is 14500.
 

wapkil

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Shimmy,

You're not going to get 170lm unless you're using a Li-Ion (4v) battery. Another name for it is 14500.

:thinking: Shimmy wrote it is AA2. I though it should put out 170lm and should not be used with two 14500s...

I'm not sure what were the expectations, but the difference between 70lm and 170lm should be quite noticeable.
 

Shimmy

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I am using eneloops.

Correct me if I am mistaken but I believe the AA2 is advertised as being capable of 170lm on max, it even says it on the box, webside, instruction manual.

Nothing/no-one has said you would need to buy other parts ontop to get the adevertised/specified outputs.

:thinking: Shimmy wrote it is AA2. I though it should put out 170lm and should not be used with two 14500s...

Yes, it is indeed the AA2.

I'm not sure what were the expectations, but the difference between 70lm and 170lm should be quite noticeable.
They are noticable but the difference to me is not really all that usable.
It is pretty close overall to what I was expecting but I was expecting more of a difference between the 70 and 170 modes.
 
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Henk_Lu

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Well, my Quark AA2 regular cool white was arrived today...

Honestly can't say I am completely pleased... was I expecting too much? (first real light).

The threads seem a bit rough and were a bit dirty it seemed, scraped a fingernail through the threads and the stuff in them was not a grease/oil (that I know of), it was a soft/solid matter, pliable... could move it around, stretch it etc...

I got my AA2 regulat neutral while last friday and had the same, on the tailcap. Shouldn't be, but not a great problem either, I used a q-tip to get the dirt more or less out, feels good now, after adding some lube.

How much of a difference is there supposed to be between the 70 and 170 lumins when in a dark room?
There is a difference, but not that much... more of a noticeable difference between the 18 and 70 modes.
This is with both the alkalines it came with and eneloops.
Double Lumen doesn't mean double output. On my neutral white it is noticeable however and surely makes sense if you really need brightness.

Is the clip removable? I thought I read it was... I can't figure out how.
Unfortunately, that's not documented and I found out after I nearly cut the o-ring. So, get out the o-ring first, just strap it on the threads. Then you loosen the ring that holds the clip completely, until it has no contact with the threads anymore. To remove the clip, you still need a little force and you may scratch the anodizing with it. I reinstalled mine after bending it back, because I already bent it the wrong way when trying to tear it out. As I bent it too much, I had some trouble to fix the ring, after some more bending and pressing both the clip and the ring are in place as they should be and it will stay like this now.

How hard is the clicky supposed to be to press? Mine at times can be a bit difficult to press.
I can confirm that theyx are hard to press, same for the tactical. They are probably the stiffest I own, but, as I'm a man... ;)

Also with the clicky, it seems sometimes when changing between modes (half pressing) that it won't change every time, somtimes will blink but stay on the same mode.
Not sure if this is me or the clicky (does it require a certain distance/pressure before changing)?
That's strange! While I sometimes had no result at all ar first, as the switch is quite stiff, it always changes when I press it deep enough and if it blinks, it should be pressed in deep enough.

Be sure your NiMh cells are correctly charged, keep out the alcalines (I collect mine, which come with the flashlights for thr remote controls, needn't buy any fort years by now...).

Seriously, alkalines may leak and may not bring the necessary current drawn for a long time, especially on high.

Overall, it is a nice light, just curious on the above questions.Cheers.

EDIT:
Just checked it outside (night time here) and used both the 170 and 70 modes, there is virtually no point in using the 170 mode over the 70, the spill is a tad brighter, the spot a tad brighter but the difference to me is small enough it does not light up anything enough over the 70 mode to use it. This was a distance of about 15m and about 60m (2 different trees)

Don't get me wrong the 70 mode is quite bright and is pretty much what I would use most of the time, but if the 170 mode is meant to be any brighter than mine is I most certainly would like it to be.

So, going back to my first question... was I expecting too much from it?
If your test was performed by daylight I would tell you to test at night. As you tested by night, either you expected too much or your light has a problem. There is no way to tell somebody how much brighter it should be, but it should be a real difference in the dark.

I suppose you have no other light to compare with as you say it's your first real flashlight. Make a search here, perhaps you'll find beamshots of the different levels. Again, make sure your NiMh are fully charged, it's the turbo mode which is affected by half depleted cells, while the rest of the modes may work normally.

Greets,

Henk
 

wapkil

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If your test was performed by daylight I would tell you to test at night. As you tested by night, either you expected too much or your light has a problem. There is no way to tell somebody how much brighter it should be, but it should be a real difference in the dark.

I suppose you have no other light to compare with as you say it's your first real flashlight. Make a search here, perhaps you'll find beamshots of the different levels. Again, make sure your NiMh are fully charged, it's the turbo mode which is affected by half depleted cells, while the rest of the modes may work normally.

I would also expect 170lm and 70lm to show a noticeable difference at night. I seem to remember someone returning a Quark because of the faulty driver that would not have the full output on high...

You may also try to check the current consumption of the light on high, as described e.g. in HKJ's guide, to see if it is as expected.
 

dilbert

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figured a super low while playing around.
not sure if it works with other models.

1. have flashlight on
2. tighten bezel to tight mode
3. slightly loosen to go into loose mode
4. put thumb on lens end and give it a quick push
5. it'll drop into super low


I was able to recreate this with my AA2 Warm Tactical. Now that really is a super low low! I'm curious to hear from 4Sevens about if it is safe to use this mode or if it has something to do with programming.
 

Shimmy

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I got my AA2 regulat neutral while last friday and had the same, on the tailcap. Shouldn't be, but not a great problem either, I used a q-tip to get the dirt more or less out, feels good now, after adding some lube.
Yeah, it wasn't much of a problem, I just cleaned it out and put on a light coat of bearing oil I had close by for my RC's.
Going to clean that off soon too and add some black grease/lube.
Double Lumen doesn't mean double output. On my neutral white it is noticeable however and surely makes sense if you really need brightness.
I realise it wouldn't nessecarily mean double output, but I would have expected more to be honest.
Unfortunately, that's not documented and I found out after I nearly cut the o-ring. So, get out the o-ring first, just strap it on the threads. Then you loosen the ring that holds the clip completely, until it has no contact with the threads anymore. To remove the clip, you still need a little force and you may scratch the anodizing with it. I reinstalled mine after bending it back, because I already bent it the wrong way when trying to tear it out. As I bent it too much, I had some trouble to fix the ring, after some more bending and pressing both the clip and the ring are in place as they should be and it will stay like this now.
Ah, fair enough... may have been another I was reading about then.
I can confirm that theyx are hard to press, same for the tactical. They are probably the stiffest I own, but, as I'm a man... ;)
Cool, good to know mine isn't an odd one out... it's not a problem really, just with it being recessed (and a long travel with the rubber boot too) I seem to find it takes a couple of goes to press it in the right spot enough to get it to aknoledge it.
That's strange! While I sometimes had no result at all ar first, as the switch is quite stiff, it always changes when I press it deep enough and if it blinks, it should be pressed in deep enough.
I first thought the above reason (stiff/awkward clicky) to have something to do with it but it does blink without changing modes, unless I am not depressing the button enough?
Be sure your NiMh cells are correctly charged, keep out the alcalines (I collect mine, which come with the flashlights for thr remote controls, needn't buy any fort years by now...).
Yup, freshly charged, alkalines are out and the eneloops are in.
Seriously, alkalines may leak and may not bring the necessary current drawn for a long time, especially on high.
Just found the current draw difference between them, alkies sure can't handle as much as the eneloops.
If your test was performed by daylight I would tell you to test at night. As you tested by night, either you expected too much or your light has a problem. There is no way to tell somebody how much brighter it should be, but it should be a real difference in the dark.
Yup, tested in the day at first and have now tested at night.
I am begining to think I expected too much from it.
There is a difference between them, but it's not that obvious, lit up a tree about 60m (at a guess) away on the 70 mode and it was visable and putting it on the 170 mode the branches were just a tad bit brighter, just a tad bit more identifiable.
I suppose you have no other light to compare with as you say it's your first real flashlight. Make a search here, perhaps you'll find beamshots of the different levels. Again, make sure your NiMh are fully charged, it's the turbo mode which is affected by half depleted cells, while the rest of the modes may work normally.

Nah, no other lights to compare to aside from a couple of well used (near stuffed) 3C pelican incan lights.



I would also expect 170lm and 70lm to show a noticeable difference at night. I seem to remember someone returning a Quark because of the faulty driver that would not have the full output on high...

You may also try to check the current consumption of the light on high, as described e.g. in HKJ's guide, to see if it is as expected.


I just tried what was described in the link and according to my multimeter on the 170 mode with eneloops it read about 2.1A and with the duracel alkalines 1.7A.
.2 mode with the eneloops read about .002A.

EDIT:
Playing around with it again, I would have to say the tint difference is bigger than the brightness difference between the 70 and 170 modes.
 
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Vox Clamatis in Deserto

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Darn, just experienced my second Quark tailcap failure. The last one was the regular pusbutton, this one is a tactical on my QAAW. My wife and I walked for a couple of miles with the light last night and it performed flawlessly, nice moon mode for a dark country road, immediate max when needed for a passing car or wildlife. I also had an Inova Inforce Color, great low modes but sometimes a little awkward to get on high when you need it in a hurry.

This morning the QAAW light would not come on.

I tried the usual troubleshooting, battery swap, swapping ends, Nyogel, Deoxit, etc. A tailcap swap with one of my other Quarks confirmed the fault.

As with the earlier failure, the switch action feels normal, perhaps there is some solder joint or pc board trace in the tailcap that has lost continuity. I don't really have the right pin wrench to disassemble the tailcap but I do have some wristwatch caseback openers that might work.

I realize 4Sevens will repair or replace the light under warranty but as before, I just ordered a new tactical tailcap for $9 delivered. It's easier for me than getting an RMA, packing the light, going to the post office several miles away and waiting for the light to come back. I had a mixup on an earlier 4Sevens RMA and I really want to keep the warm emitter.

Now that I think about it, maybe I should stock a couple of extra Quark tailcaps.

Clicky tailcaps are guaranteed in my experience. Guaranteed to fail...;)
 

wapkil

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Cool, good to know mine isn't an odd one out... it's not a problem really, just with it being recessed (and a long travel with the rubber boot too) I seem to find it takes a couple of goes to press it in the right spot enough to get it to aknoledge it.

The first shipped versions of Quarks had stiffer boots and there was a run of replacements to correct it. I don't know though how stiff were the original ones or how soft are the replacements.

I just tried what was described in the link and according to my multimeter on the 170 mode with eneloops it read about 2.1A and with the duracel alkalines 1.7A. .2 mode with the eneloops read about .002A.

It's not a definitive proof (e.g. a faulty driver could waste the energy) but 2.1A sounds normal. ~2mA too, so DMM readings seem correct.
 

HKJ

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I just tried what was described in the link and according to my multimeter on the 170 mode with eneloops it read about 2.1A and with the duracel alkalines 1.7A.
.2 mode with the eneloops read about .002A.

You current measurements are very reasonable, I got the following values: 2.4mA, 14mA, 98mA, 422mA, 2300mA

The difference between 70 and 170 lumen is visual very small. In my (usual Danish) reviews and beamshots I has a log graph of the different levels, the height difference between the levels is the visual change, as you can see below the difference between high and max has the smallest step size and that also means that it has the least visible change.

Brightness.png


Think about this small difference, when you want a new high power light, the visual change from 70 to 170 is the same as from 170 to 400 lumen!
 

Shimmy

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The first shipped versions of Quarks had stiffer boots and there was a run of replacements to correct it. I don't know though how stiff were the original ones or how soft are the replacements.

I may just send an email off about it, although I could live with the one I have, but if there is a better option I won't say no.
Thanks for the link.

You current measurements are very reasonable, I got the following values: 2.4mA, 14mA, 98mA, 422mA, 2300mA

The difference between 70 and 170 lumen is visual very small. In my (usual Danish) reviews and beamshots I has a log graph of the different levels, the height difference between the levels is the visual change, as you can see below the difference between high and max has the smallest step size and that also means that it has the least visible change.

Brightness.png


Think about this small difference, when you want a new high power light, the visual change from 70 to 170 is the same as from 170 to 400 lumen!

Excellent! Cheers for that mate.
That pretty much confirms exactly what I am seeing and it seems it is indeed normal. Pretty much the same current readings too (very close).
So is the visual difference the same for all lights or just the quark?
EDIT: after re-reading your post, it seems it is normal for all lights.
 

vali

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Yes, the change in brightness is not that big between high and max... but it isnt between high and turbo on my LD20 either, so blame the human perception.

The fact is I dont really care. Most of the time I use the lower levels and I am not a "brightness is everything" whore. For me runtime/efficiency and reliability are king.
 

KuKu427

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I ordered a Quark AA Regular with two AW 14500's and a charger. Waited 12 days for the package to get to Taiwan. And what shows up at my door?

Two AW 14500's. No Quark, no charger.....

Like... :oops:

Oh wait... one more thing came in the package.
wtf.jpg


ARRRRGGGGG!!!!!!
 
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