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Ti PD-XP-G ! Will the dream come true Don???

easilyled

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About the o-ring retaining system, for both front lens and rubber boot, I must admit that I first had doubts. I doubted the fact that the parts would not come out accidentally and I doubted the fact that this system would be water resistant to any significant level.

Man I was wrong! Now that I've used the haiku for a long time I can see how well the system works. I've taken it down to approx 15m underwater without a single leak. I've dropped it a few times without any ill effect. Yet I can take the whole thing appart in minutes using a tooth pick. If you're carefull you can even re-use the o-rings.

About blowing the reflector, once it's done I don't see why you would want to blow it again?

I understand the cool factor of a bezel but from a technical standpoint the o-ring system has convinced me to be supperior.

BTW : anyone trying to put the o-ring back in place should try coating them with a small amount of lube, they will snap in place in a matter of seconds

I'm sure you're undoubtedly right about the advantages in a drop.

However for ease of removal, I would be much more confident with a retaining ring.

As I am obsessive about the led being centered in relation to the hole of the reflector as well as dust particles and smudges,
I sometimes end up taking the window on and off until everything is virtually perfect to my eyes.

This can be quite painstaking and involve many attempts.

I realize that I should probably be more pragmatic and not worry about such "trivial" matters, but because a McGizmo light gives me so much pride,
anything slightly out of place on it rattles my cage. :)
 

toby_pra

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What are we discussing here...? :oops:

It seems that there is no chance of a Ti PD-XPG or another PD McGizmo. :whistle:
That is really very sad, but there will be no change i am afraid.
 

fyrstormer

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I'm actually not sure which direction is which in that post. It seems to me that the PD is a bit of an anachronism compared to microprocessor switching, and in that sense continuing to use it reflects choosing artistry over pure function. I like non-microprocessor flashlights for the same reasons that I like tube stereos and black-and-white photography. It's not a matter of being retro (I do like digital watches); it's just that the user experience of having fewer modes is more direct and satisfying, and IMO it's ok to trade off some functionality for that directness.
Customer = wants the artist to advance the product in a direction they're willing to pay for.

Artist = wants to advance their skills in a direction they find satisfying.

Both of my parents are artists (though that's not how they make their money), so I'm familiar with this tension. There have been plenty of times when I've watched my mom painting something, and I've suggested she should really do such-and-so to make it look better, but that wasn't what she wanted to emphasize. The same scenario has played out many times with my dad's music recording. You have to remember, it's not about the product, it's about the concept in the artist's mind, and the relative importance of each piece of that concept. In this case, it's pretty clear that the actual switching mechanism is less important to Don than the functionality obtained through it, so it's no great surprise he'd move on from the PD switch to something with more modes and easier latching.

Like everyone else here, though, I do appreciate the uniqueness and functionality of the PD switch (which is why I own so many of them :p), and were it not for the time and expense associated with making such small runs of PD lights, I'd be disappointed that he discontinued them. But I can understand how he wouldn't want to spend his entire waking life building flashlights, so...:shrug:
 
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fyrstormer

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There are no other lights that can do this right now save the Arc 6 and much to my dismay, I cannot justify owning that light because of the inefficiency of the driver.
I see people bring this up from time to time, but I don't get it. Why do people think the Arc6 driver is inefficient? There are plenty of lights that use voltage control + PWM to control brightness -- such as the Haiku. As far as I can tell, the only real inefficiency comes from trying to shove 1.5amps through a 1amp-rated LED, but that only happens if you use Level 7. If you set it down to Level 4-6, it should be just as efficient as a McGizmo PD driver.
 

maxspeeds

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At this point though and this is strictly personal, I am never without a Sapphire and the Sapphire covers my in close and low level flood requirements. That is a given. If I want or know I will need more flood and quality flood, then I will also carry a SunDrop XR-U. If I anticipate the possible need for more light or illumination at greater range then it is the Haiku XP-G that I will carry. I am not stating that this is the right solution for anyone else but it is the one I have found best for me and obviously it is one I can believe in and support.

Hi Don :wave:

I have always noticed that your lighting preferences have mirrored mines very closely, if not exactly. Every change I have made to my EDC requirements whether it be an additional battery for longer runtimes, or lower current draw for longer runtimes, you were always one step ahead. Even with beam pattern distribution and the direction of going to even almost flood-like lighting (resembling very closely to what the sun provides for us in the daytime).

This brings me to my question. I have had some time to play with the Sundrop XR-U and have not been able to settle on a light engine to keep in there. Out of curiosity, what light engine do you use most in your XR-U?

Cheers!
Joel
 
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paulr

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Customer = wants the artist to advance the product in a direction they're willing to pay for.

Artist = wants to advance their skills in a direction they find satisfying.

Well, as I saw it, there was a reasonable notion behind this thread that was compatible with both of the above. It just turned out to not reflect reality.

The premise was that making a PD-XP-G was not really an advance at all, but just a matter continuing the availability of an existing and highly appreciated light, though with a minor update in the form of a new led. Sort of like when a great novelist explores new literary approaches, his main effort goes into writing new novels, but his older ones still stay in print, with occasional updates to the jacket blurbs, and his fans continue to appreciate them. Novelists are usually happy when their old novels keep selling, even if their writing interests have since changed direction and their new novels are much different from the old.

The mismatch between the above notion and reality is that the PD electronic drivers are apparently no longer available from the original source, so reintroducing the PD would require developing a new driver, which is considerably more effort than just continuing to ship a light whose R&D had mostly already been done, and it's a much bigger project than just keeping the old design available. At that point, there does start to be tension between the directions.

I do hope to try a Haiku sometime.
 

fyrstormer

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Not arguing with the financial and logistical concerns, but from a purely artistic perspective, doing something that doesn't advance your skills isn't really satisfying. A better literary comparison would be a novelist who knows a particular series is popular, but decides to end the story arc anyway because he doesn't think he can do anything more with it that's really creative, per se. The old novels stay in print because the publisher keeps printing them; the novelist doesn't have to actively do anything in that regard.

I think the best solution would be to keep licensing the PD design, preferably in its original form factor to allow parts to be interchangeable. Arc makes a good PD light, but it's hardly the only possible interpretation. Nitecore's design is also good, but unfortunately it's not physically compatible with the other designs. I wish it were, because if I could put my EX10 head on a McGizmo PD Pak, I'd do it right now. I bet there is a custom maker or two out there who could do Don proud with their own versions of the PD light, if given the opportunity.
 

RocketTomato

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Not arguing with the financial and logistical concerns, but from a purely artistic perspective, doing something that doesn't advance your skills isn't really satisfying. A better literary comparison would be a novelist who knows a particular series is popular, but decides to end the story arc anyway because he doesn't think he can do anything more with it that's really creative, per se. The old novels stay in print because the publisher keeps printing them; the novelist doesn't have to actively do anything in that regard.

Sounds like Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Sherlock Holmes. In the end, Doyle ended up resurrecting him ... Of course Doyle didn't need to source converter boards and deal with MOQs.

... I wish it were, because if I could put my EX10 head on a McGizmo PD Pak, I'd do it right now. ...

Sounds like you want one of these.
 

easilyled

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Don will do whatever he chooses to do and he's earned that right many times over.

Every new product that comes out bearing his name and hallmark is associated with the kind of quality, reliability and function that is elevated from the competition.

That said, I hope he takes it as a compliment that we all marvel at the PD design and see it in a way as a possible pinnacle in his many amazing achievements.

An analogy that occurs to me, which may or may not be particularly appropriate, is an actor that is so superb in a particular role that there is a clamor for more and more sequels/series to be brought out for the actor to continue portraying that particular character.

The actor becomes tired of this and wants to avoid being type-cast and show his adaptability at portraying many other characters regardless of the fact that he could possibly make more money and have an easier time by staying with the same series for much longer.
 

fyrstormer

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Well...since I've already made an argument in favor of "progress" and declared my understanding for (what I assume are) Don's feelings on the matter, I'm going to go ahead and throw in an analysis of my real-world flashlight usage.

Months before I knew anything about Don and his Gizmos, I stumbled across the CPF Review of the Arc6 and Orcinus' photos of the same. I had previously decided not to get the Arc6 because I was confused about its modes of operation, and it looked rather frumpy in Arc's product photos. The review and owner photos changed my mind, and I decided to get one. When it arrived, I was shocked at how small and bright it was. I was temporarily disappointed by the fact that the PD switch didn't have latching capability, but after using it for a while I began to realize that this wasn't the obstacle I initially anticipated.

The first reason, which has nothing at all to do with the PD switch itself, is that I really do like twisties -- I fiddle with them constantly when given the opportunity -- and the PD design gave me an excuse to not give up having a twisty switch to play with, while still having the instant-accessibility that a pushbutton provides.

The second reason, which also has nothing to do with the PD switch, is that I prefer lights where the head screws into the battery tube, instead of onto it. I have absolutely no idea why, other than to speculate that it seems like a slightly stronger design, and/or because it makes the head seem smaller compared to the rest of the light. Then again, it could be nothing more than years of acclimation to the paradigm set by my old Arc AAA, I dunno.

The third reason is (finally) a functional one. While having a latching clicky switch is definitely advantageous from the perspective of 100% single-handed operation, that benchmark simply doesn't reflect my everyday usage. 95% of my actual EDC needs are covered by short bursts of light that last 5 seconds or less, so holding the button down for that span of time is insignificant. Also, as some have pointed out, being able to adjust the brightness of the light by adjusting the pressure on the button is more useful than mode-cycling during short-duration use, because cycling modes may actually take more time than the light will actually be pointed at the intended target. In those rare cases where I need sustained light and/or both hands free, I have yet to be so pressed for time that I couldn't afford the second it takes to twist the head to keep the light on.

So, while the McClicky+Aleph configuration may reflect an improvement according to one benchmark (i.e. 100% single-hand usage, time-to-activate notwithstanding), the PD configuration doesn't necessarily give up any functionality that real-world users would miss. This might explain why my Arc6 (now refitted with a proper titanium PD-Pak) is still the light I carry 3 days out of 5, and why there's a PD light on my hip 9 days out of 10.

Lastly, from a purely aesthetic standpoint: the PD configuration is what set McGizmos apart from other lights for at least a couple of years, and frankly, if functionality were all I cared about, I'd have bought a Surefire or two and been a couple thousand dollars richer at this point -- but it's not, and the uniqueness of the PD configuration contributed greatly to my perceived value of McGizmos as compared to other, more conventional lights. From a brand-identity perspective, it would be a waste to discard that uniqueness on account of its age, because in a lot of cases pure functionality simply isn't what buyers of "luxury" items care about; if it were, I don't think Swatch/Tag Heuer/Omega would still be building wind-up analog watches with mechanical escapements.

You know, that's actually a better comparison than I thought it would be, because it reflects how some people like being able to see and feel their tools doing their jobs, instead of trusting electronics to never fail. And even to the extent that the PD lights are electronic, they are FAR easier to service than Aleph-based lights are. I don't have the skills to do it all myself, but the switches can be cleaned, the emitters can be changed, and the drivers themselves can be modified. I can't do any of those with Aleph light engines; all I can do is buy a new part and throw away the old one.

I have to say, when it comes to pure aesthetics, while the Haiku is a master-work of machining and its interface is quite competent, the fact that it is unique in fewer ways than its predecessors makes it seem a bit more like an expensive also-ran than a truly unique offering. I seriously doubt I would ever sell it because of that, but it does see somewhat less pocket time as a result, which means ultimately it isn't fulfilling its intended purpose as well as its older siblings.

I know this doesn't reflect the "supply-chain problem" -- there's nothing I can do about that -- but I think it does address just about every reason why the "supply-chain problem" deserves a solution when it becomes practical to do so.
 
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run4jc

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RED ALERT....datiLED shipped my Ti PD-XP-G R5 to me today! It should arrive by Saturday....reviews to come as soon as I get it.

Derek says it looks great...stay tuned!

:party: :popcorn:
 

SFfanman

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RED ALERT....datiLED shipped my Ti PD-XP-G R5 to me today! It should arrive by Saturday....reviews to come as soon as I get it.

Derek says it looks great...stay tuned!

:party: :popcorn:


:paypal: :nana: :oops: Happy St. Pat's Day to ya Run4jc and all other CPF members!
 

NoFair

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"Assuming that I could find a viable source for an appropriate converter and justify any associated development costs and NRE, how many of you would consider a two level output PD XP-G at say a cost of $520 a superior solution over the 3 speed Haiku that is $450?"

I normally only use high/low (about 150/10 lumens) on my current EDC lights. Milky is modding a U2 with a neutral white MC-E for me so I have a light with a greater diversity in output for outdoor long term use. I strongly dislike clicking through modes on EDC lights, but I'm fine with it on my bike or headlamp (as long as there aren't too many modes)

So: Yes I'd take one if the led was a neutral white one or easily swappable:thumbsup:

Sverre
 
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ma_sha1

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I know this doesn't reflect the "supply-chain problem" -- there's nothing I can do about that -- but I think it does address just about every reason why the "supply-chain problem" deserves a solution when it becomes practical to do so.

I wonder if there might be other obstacles to overcome beyond the "supply-chain problem", it is not uncommon that when a design is sold or licensed out, the seller signs some kind of "non compete" agreement so that he is obligated not to continue making it in parallel, to give the buyer a chance to benefit from the investment spent acquiring the technique, in this case giving Nitecore a chance to have PD design exclusively?

In such situations, the seller would be obligated to keep such info. confidential, therefore if such "non disclosure" arrangement did happen, we would not be hearing about it & one would not know that a hidden "obstacle" of non compete is much harder to overcome than "supply-chain problem". However, such agreements usually live on 3-5 yr term, so if it did happen, we may see PD here again after a few more years?

Just a speculation, but I think it is possible because it's a common & fair business practice.
In my industry, I have to deal with licensing, non compete & non disclosure agreements frequently.
However, if no such agreement exists, then I am sure Don is free to comment & point out that it doesn't exist.
.
.

Disclaimer:

To Mods or Don. If you think the speculation on non disclosure is a issues too sensitive to be discussed & wish to have the post removed, please either go ahead to do so or let me know, I'll delete my post. I just wanted to point out that there might be hidden issues so that folks don't get their hopes so high only seeing the visible part of the issues, which some times much smaller than the hidden issues.

I fully intent to comply with CPF forum rules & regulations 100%!
 
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carrot

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I doubt that Nitecore has any exclusivity. Nitecore has nothing on the real PD... they implemented it wrongly (as an electronic clicky) although still nice as far as lights go.

Now with Arc, I could see it being possible, but even after the Arc6 came out, Don released a wave of Ti PD-S, so I doubt it is the case.
 

ma_sha1

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I doubt that Nitecore has any exclusivity. Nitecore has nothing on the real PD... they implemented it wrongly (as an electronic clicky) although still nice as far as lights go.

Now with Arc, I could see it being possible, but even after the Arc6 came out, Don released a wave of Ti PD-S, so I doubt it is the case.

I totally agree that the original PD is better. But it is not at all the point I was trying to make. Weather Nitecore made a better product does not prove or dis prove if Nitecore acquired technology with non disclosure or not.

One is the about the technicality & the extent of licensing agreement.
The other is about if licensee(Nitecore) has made a better product.

The two issues most of the times have nothing to do with each other.
Infect, licensee doesn't even need to make a product & they could still acquire a technology with non compete & non disclosure. Under such situations, the licensor is still obligated not to make a similar product & not to talk about if such agreement exists.
.
.
 
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fyrstormer

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I doubt that Nitecore has any exclusivity. Nitecore has nothing on the real PD... they implemented it wrongly (as an electronic clicky) although still nice as far as lights go.

Now with Arc, I could see it being possible, but even after the Arc6 came out, Don released a wave of Ti PD-S, so I doubt it is the case.
Nitecore didn't implement it wrongly, they implemented it the way they wanted to -- and in so doing, they demonstrated that the PD switch design has a greater versatility than had theretofore been appreciated, such as usability in highly-explosive environments wherein even a tiny spark from the initial contact between two charged electrodes could have nasty consequences. Since there is no such initial contact in the SmartPD, there is no risk of detonating explosive gases.

There are lots of people out there who are quite happy with their Nitecore SmartPDs. Are they all wrong?
 

ma_sha1

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such as usability in highly-explosive environments wherein even a tiny spark from the initial contact between two charged electrodes could have nasty consequences. Since there is no such initial contact in the SmartPD, there is no risk of detonating explosive gases.

This is an interesting point that I was not aware of, would you explain further?

I thought that the piston is not in contact with the metal ring in the head until you push, so the metal to metal contact under the push could still trigger fast static discharge & therefore possibly a tiny spark?

Are you saying the piston is in constant contact with the metal ring already before pushing the piston?

Or perhaps tiny sparks are enclosed inside the flashlight body & therefore not in touch with outside enviroment like a normal clicky light does, which use the flashlight body to complete the circuit?
 
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