TSA banning certain batteries

[jedikillerjango]

Airline lithium battery restricitons

I've lurked on here for quite some time, but finally decided to post.

It seems that our friends at the TSA have decided to add some restrictions on lithium batteries for air travelers.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h74l-BiD30YO0rsScUm-HdpKRTuAD8TQK0CO0

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

What would the limits on CR123 batteries be then?

 

[ltiu]

Re: Airline lithium battery restricitons

This thread should be moved to the battery section.

There are already a lot of other other posts regarding this same topic.

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/threads/184424

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=183980

 

[PhantomPhoton]

Well on the bright side, at least Lithium batteries aren't very heavy now that we're lugging a bunch around in carry-on.
I will be flying in February, so hopefully by then everything will be figured out by then.

 

[Size15's]

Re: Airline lithium battery restricitons

jedikillerjango, Welcome to CPF! :welcome:
I've moved and combined your thread with this one, already established in the batteries forum.

Effective January 1, 2008:
The quantity limits apply to both your spare and installed batteries.

You may not pack spare lithium batteries in your checked baggage
(It is strongly advised not to pack devices with installed lithium batteries in your checked baggage).

For primary lithium metal batteries (CR123A, CR2 etc), whether installed in a device or carried as spares, the limit on lithium content is 2 grams of lithium metal per battery.

One CR123A battery is nominally less than 0.6 grams of lithium metal.
Sanyo lists 0.57 grams of lithium in a CR123 cell
Energizer lists 0.55 grams of lithium in a EL123A cell



Under the new rules, you can bring [rechargeable] lithium batteries with up to a total of 8 grams equivalent lithium content.

Equivalent Lithium Content [for rechargeable lithium batteries] is measured as 0.3 times the rated capacity (ampere hour (Ah)) of the cell in ampere-hours, with the results expressed in grams.
The lithium-equivalent content of the battery equals the sum of the grams of lithium-equivalent content contained in the component cells of the battery [pack].

(Example: a 18650 Li-Ion cell with 1.8 Ah of rated capacity would contain 0.54 grams of lithium (1.8 x 0.3) and 6 of these cells in a pack would equal 3.24 grams)

Please pm or email me if any of the above is incorrect and I'll edit it asap.

Al

 

[OceanView]

The announcement on the TSA website is confusing for me. The rotating image on the home page shows a selection of lithium ion batteries only, like the kinds you'd recognize from a digital camera or video camera. However, if you click on it, the text description implies that it is the lithium primaries batteries that are the danger because if they catch on fire, they are not easily extinguishable with the fire fighting chemicals normally on board while lithium ion fires can be extinguished.

Anyway, if lithium ion packs are not the concern of this announcement, then it would seem to make more sense to show a photo of lithium primary batteries, like Energizers, so people can easily see what batteries are being addressed. Well, unless the TSA is being paid to advertise GP brand lithium ion packs.

 

[FlashSpyJ]

How does this affect me ordering batterys from the US? Can I still order CR123 batterys over the internet from the US? And get them shipped?

 

[Size15's]

How does this affect me ordering batterys from the US? Can I still order CR123 batterys over the internet from the US? And get them shipped?

Currently and for quite some time now Lithium batteries can not be shipped (freight) in the holds of commercial aircraft so have to be shipped via cargo aircraft. Regarding purchasing lithium batteries from the USA - situation normal afaik.

 

[Tempest UK]

Good to hear we can still take a fair few CR123a with us. Although, looking at my last flights, I was probably over 14 SF123a with the lights I had in my carry-on. Hmm...

Regards,
Tempest

 

[ltiu]

Re: Airline lithium battery restricitons

Under the new rules, you can bring batteries with up to a total of 8 grams equivalent lithium content.

For a lithium metal battery (CR123A, CR2 etc), whether installed in a device or carried as a spare, the limit on lithium content is 2 grams of lithium metal per battery.

One CR123A battery is nominally rated as 1400-1550 mAh (1.4-1.55 Ah).
Sanyo lists 0.57 grams of lithium in a CR123 cell
Energizer lists 0.55 grams of lithium in a EL123A cell

By my calculation that means we can bring a maximum total of 14 (fourteen) CR123A batteries.
(If we decide a nominal 0.6 grams of lithium in a generic CR123A cell that limits us to a maximum of 13 (thirteen) CR123A batteries)

Apologies, I do not agree with your interpretation.

There seems to be some confusion in the text between lithium-ion and lithium primaries. In the text, it seems that they refer to lithium primaries as being "lithium metal" batteries.

I read it as, you can bring lithium primaries (lithium metal) with less than 2 grams of lithium metal "per" battery:

--------

• For a lithium metal battery, whether installed in a device or carried as a spare, the limit on lithium content is 2 grams of lithium metal per battery.

-------

There is no limit on the "sum total" lithium metal of "all" your lithium primaries, at least, I read the statements:

--------

• Under the new rules, you can bring batteries with up to 8-gram equivalent lithium content. All lithium ion batteries in cell phones are below 8 gram equivalent lithium content. Nearly all laptop computers also are below this quantity threshold.
• You can also bring up to two spare batteries with an aggregate equivalent lithium content of up to 25 grams, in addition to any batteries that fall below the 8-gram threshold. Examples of two types of lithium ion batteries with equivalent lithium content over 8 grams but below 25 are shown below.

--------

as applying to lithium-ion only. If the statement above do apply to lithium primaries, then nothing in the statement says that the grand total sum of lithium metal in all your lithium "primary" batteries need to be below 8 grams or 25 grams respectively. The 8 grams and 25 gram limits seem to point at lithium-ion only, as indicated in the text.

Call the lawyers!

 

[Size15's]

Tempest UK,
Well quite.
My normal carry-on used to consist of an M6, SC1, U2, SC3, L2, SC3, UKE-2L (26 SF123A batteries) with a couple of SF12BB boxes in my checked luggage.

I'm going to have to re-think what I travel with.
I guess Titan, L1, A2, SC3 (total seven SF123A batteries, one CR2 battery) because I'd like to bring a couple SF123A-powered flashlights home with me!
Appears I was wrong and as long as they are correctly stored, we can carry as many CR123A batteries as we like in our carry-on luggage.
Still, I won't bring my M6 next time. I'll stick with my revised list...

 

[ltiu]

Well quite.
My normal carry-on used to consist of an M6, SC1, U2, SC3, L2, SC3, UKE-2L (26 SF123A batteries) with a couple of SF12BB boxes in my checked luggage.

I'm going to have to re-think what I travel with.
I guess Titan, L1, A2, SC3 (total seven SF123A batteries, one CR2 battery) because I'd like to bring a couple SF123A-powered flashlights home with me!

You can always see how far you can bend the rules by bringing more. Bring used/dead CR123As to test so that if you have to throw them away at the security check, you won't be throwing away perfectly good CR123As.

 

[Size15's]

ltiu,
Reading this
Panasonic Transport Update pdf again, I think you could be right.

Consumer electronic devices (watches, calculating machines, cameras, cellular phones, lap-top computers, camcorders, etc.) containing lithium or lithium ion cells or batteries when carried by passengers or crew member for personal use. Each spare battery must be individually protected so as to prevent short circuits and carried in carry-on baggage only. In addition, each spare battery must not exceed the following:
(i) For a lithium metal or lithium alloy battery, a lithium content of not more than 2 grams per battery; or
(ii) For a lithium ion battery, an aggregate equivalent lithium content of not more than 8 grams per battery, except that up to two batteries with an aggregate equivalent lithium content of more than 8 grams but not more than 25 grams may be carried.

I think I was getting confused by 'packs' of CR123A's which is not applicable to individual CR123A batteries.

I'll edit my post above

 

[abvidledUK]

Here too

http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/12/28/luggage.lithium.ban/

 

[ampdude]

Flying is getting to be more of a hassle than it's worth. I feel sorry for those whose job forces them to fly often.

 

[Size15's]

Here too
http://www.macnn.com/articles/07/12/28/luggage.lithium.ban/

That's a completely different message / rule!

batteries will either have to be inserted into a phone, notebook or other electronic device, or else dropped into a plastic bag, and bundled along with carry-on baggage in a limit of two batteries per passenger.

Is that two spare batteries per passenger, or two batteries total per passenger?
I think they must mean two spare batteries.
With this sort of thing "security" at airports are going to be just as confused as everybody else! :shakehead:

Clarification From a link on the TSA website:

the rule limits individuals to bringing only two extended-life spare rechargeable lithium batteries (see attached illustration), such as laptop and professional audio/video/camera equipment lithium batteries in carry-on baggage

It does appear that primary Lithium batteries are not subject to the limitations rule, only the safe 'packaging' rule (including none in checked baggage)

 

[abvidledUK]

Didn't seem to warrant a new thread !

 

[lebox97]

do you guy's really think that you are going to have a discussion with the TSA personnel and TSA supervisors about cell chemistries and how many grams each cell is? :thinking:
their final answer is going to be - do you want on the plane or don't you! tic toc tic toc tic toc - plane door is closing (time is on their side).....

I just finished the year with 130,000+ air miles completed in increments of 500 and 1,000 miles at a time.... ie. I am in and out of airport security A LOT...

so far TSA security expressed much more concern about my finger nail clippers (which I now put in the ziplock baggie and it still get's a hairy eyeball) than any of my lights or cells or many other electronics that I carry on with me (I refuse to check baggage - and have not done so in years)

but, I also don't travel with more than 2-3 lights and a spare cell or two for each. (if for some weird reason I need more cells - I'll buy them locally at my destination)

PS: I don't care what any of these "other" websites say - the TSA AND the specific airline makes the rules and enforcement - if you don't like it or agree with it - don't fly - use the train, car, bus, cycle or walk. :mecry:
rant off.

 

[SilverFox]

Hello Al,

The next thing we have to get a reading on is what the term "battey" means.

A single cell can also be called a battery, but usually a battery is made up of several cells.

In the case of the M6, it uses 6 cells for its battery pack. If the battery magazine was considered a "battery," then it would exceed the 2 gram limit.

The same goes for cameras and camera equipment. If you are using Energizer L91 Lithium AA cells, and your camera uses 4 of these cells, it could be considered a 4 cell battery pack, and that would also exceed the 2 gram limit.

On the other hand, if you pulled the cells out and carried them separately, you may be OK. I don't see a limit to the amount of single primary cells that you can carry.

This is going to be interesting to see how it plays out...

Tom

 

[Size15's]

do you guy's really think that you are going to have a discussion with the TSA personnel and TSA supervisors about cell chemistries and how many grams each cell is? :thinking:
their final answer is going to be - do you want on the plane or don't you! tic toc tic toc tic toc - plane door is closing (time is on their side).....

I agree. That's why I'm planning to slim down my flashlights to the minimum. I've been thinking about this some more and I may just take a Titan and an L1 with no spares. After all the USA is like a civilised country and it should be possible to buy replacement batteries if there is even a rudimentary retail economy in the settlements I am visiting.

 

[lebox97]

... After all the USA is like a civilised country and it should be possible to buy replacement batteries if there is even a rudimentary retail economy in the settlements I am visiting.