Uncle Sam wants YOUR biometrics

[Lightraven]

Easy for you to write, since you weren't the woman that got murdered.

I've been accused of a serious crime (not specified) I didn't commit by a federal law enforcement agency based on biometrics (not the ones we are talking about here.) Can anybody else reading this say the same? It's the most bitter experience of my life. My dad was briefly investigated by the FBI because his name was similar to that of a swindler and con man.

Believe me, I get it. But my and my dad's irritation is a smaller price to pay than to have killers and rapists running around taking advantage of their privacy from investigation.

 

[daveman]

Easy for you to write, since you weren't the woman that got murdered.

I've been accused of a serious crime (not specified) I didn't commit by a federal law enforcement agency based on biometrics (not the ones we are talking about here.) Can anybody else reading this say the same? It's the most bitter experience of my life. My dad was briefly investigated by the FBI because his name was similar to that of a swindler and con man.

Believe me, I get it. But my and my dad's irritation is a smaller price to pay than to have killers and rapists running around taking advantage of their privacy from investigation.

Right...so if every single American don't start turning in their blood type, iris scan pattern, hair sample, genetic codes, and time of their monthly period we're going to have "killers and rapists running around taking advantage" of us. Sorry I'm not scared yet...

Okay. I wonder how civilization, order, survived in cultures and societies older and greater than ours when they didn't have everybody's *** numbered and recorded.

 

[gadget_lover]

Okay. I wonder how civilization, order, survived in cultures and societies older and greater than ours when they didn't have everybody's *** numbered and recorded.

I think it was simple. In most societies throughout history you have no rights, and if the king or count or bishop wanted your life, your farm or your wife, well, then it sucked to be you.

If you stop to think about it, you deal with a government document every day that has a unique number that can be and has been used to track criminals. Your humble dollar bill has serial numbers that can be scanned and tracked. And yet I've never heard of anyone being busted because the money they got from the ATM was tracked to some illicit activity.

Identification does not make bad government. Bad government does not require identification. You don't even need to know who people are to abuse them. As a matter of fact it's much easier to abuse them as a group instead of individuals.

I'd rather have strong, valid, verifiable ID. What we have now is a joke.


Daniel

 

[daveman]

I'd rather have strong, valid, verifiable ID. What we have now is a joke.


Daniel

I've also heard this argument from the "gun-control" clowns who argue that less or no private gun ownership would reduce gun related violence in America.

Hehe..I spent 10 years various East Asian coutries (Taiwan, Singapore, Japan) for business and personal reasons, and in all those countries, gun ownership is outlawed. Except for the organized crime elements extracting protection fees from the unarmed.

In the aforementioned countries, they have had "national ids" for decades now, yet it has not added more security or ease to law enforcement as the activists have claimed here.

Of course, biometrics will work out, just like banning gun ownership and mandating nation ids have worked out for those East Asian countries (we're not talking about Iraq here, these are government fearing people).

 

[gadget_lover]

....various East Asian coutries (Taiwan, Singapore, Japan)...<snip>these are government fearing people

Since I know that my wife's family in Japan don't fear their government, your take on the terrible connditions there may be colored by your pre-conceptions.

I have no idea why gun control is being mentioned. It has nothing to do with a valid form of ID, unless you count the fears of anti gun control advocates. I understand they fear being identified in the event that they need to rise up and defend themselves.

Well, I guess this thread has jumped the shark.




Daniel

 

[AndyTiedye]

Easy for you to write, since you weren't the woman that got murdered.

I've been accused of a serious crime (not specified) I didn't commit by a federal law enforcement agency based on biometrics (not the ones we are talking about here.) Can anybody else reading this say the same? It's the most bitter experience of my life. My dad was briefly investigated by the FBI because his name was similar to that of a swindler and con man.

Believe me, I get it. But my and my dad's irritation is a smaller price to pay than to have killers and rapists running around taking advantage of their privacy from investigation.

Suppose you had been wrongly convicted of that crime and sent to prison for the rest of your life?
Presumably that is what would have happened if you didn't have an alibi.
Would that have been a "small price to pay" too?

 

[gadget_lover]

Isn't one of the arguments for biometrics and other verifiable identification the assertion that it would make it harder to convict a person incorrectly?

People are currently arrested because they match a criminal's description, or because they share a name with a criminal. Identity theft confuses the matter even more.


Daniel

 

[daveman]

Since I know that my wife's family in Japan don't fear their government, your take on the terrible connditions there may be colored by your pre-conceptions.

I have no idea why gun control is being mentioned. It has nothing to do with a valid form of ID, unless you count the fears of anti gun control advocates. I understand they fear being identified in the event that they need to rise up and defend themselves.

Well, I guess this thread has jumped the shark.




Daniel

Your wife, and her family, must be blacksheeps in Japan. The japanese are the most, for a lack of better word, obedient, populace I know of.

Gun control is being mentioned as another example of failed social policy that, while being touted as a miracle pill in the U.S. along with nation ids and biometrics, has failed to bring forth the advertised benefits to the system in which they have been imposed on for decades.

Biometrics is just another wet dream for the sci-fi fans geeks to drool over. As long as there is a human element involved, and the data will surely be accessed and read by humans, there will be corruption, mistakes, and abuse. Except with biometrics, it will be harder for the average joe to understand and prove his innocence when the government man shows up at his front door.

 

[Lightraven]

I was never arrested for any crimes and for good reason. Not only had I not committed any crimes, but no crimes had been committed by anybody. No alibi was needed for a crime that didn't exist.

I've gotten burned by biometrics, but I've seen how it nabs the hard core bad guys when it works. Sometimes, you have to put others' safety before your career goals or pride--or at least that's what I learned from the Army Officer Corps. Your mileage may vary.

 

[daveman]

...I've gotten burned by biometrics, but I've seen how it nabs the hard core bad guys when it works. Sometimes, you have to put others' safety before your career goals or pride--or at least that's what I learned from the Army Officer Corps. Your mileage may vary.

There's always a disclaimer, isn't there... except this time, we're asking people to put their most private information on the line to be abused instead of just carrying a driver's license.

 

[NA8]

How's this ?

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...ALUGIDJ.DTL&hw=airport+security&sn=004&sc=611

You give them all your biometrics and $100/year just to step to the front of the line.

 

[daveman]

Yes, let's all sell our souls for a little bit of convenience.

 

[Widsith]

There is a line between oppression and tracking and identification. I see nothing at all scary about irrefutable identification. I actually like the idea. No need to carry a drivers license or SS card. Fewer worries about Identity Theft. Higher transportation security.... whats not to like?

Nothing, right now. But what if, at some point in the future, you don't want the government to be able to identify or locate you?

Twenty years ago, I used to say we need to be prepared in case our government ever became oppressive. Now, I no longer say in case but rather when it becomes oppressive. Considering the way things have been going the last few years, it won't surprise me a bit if, in another twenty years or so, we reach the point where armed civil revolt becomes a necessity. I'm not sure I'd be surprised if it happened in a single decade. And if it does, the less the government knows about any private citizens who might be involved, the better. Even today, I'm in favor of keeping the government and law enforcement as much as possible in the dark about as many things as possible.

And as for the "war on terror," as far as I'm concerned, we've already lost it. I think the terrorists won the moment we allowed the fear of terrorism to be used as an excuse to further infringe our civil rights with more domestic surveillance, tighter airport security (which I thought was onerous even before 9/11/2001), etc. in the name of so-called "security."

If the only way to survive terrorism is to change the way we live, I'm not sure survival is worth the price.

 

[chamenos]

Hehe..I spent 10 years various East Asian coutries (Taiwan, Singapore, Japan) for business and personal reasons, and in all those countries, gun ownership is outlawed. Except for the organized crime elements extracting protection fees from the unarmed.

How long were you in Singapore? I can't speak for Taiwan or Japan, but I spent the first twenty-one years of my life in Singapore, and that statement simply does not reflect the reality in Singapore. Gun crime is almost non-existent in Singapore, and what passes for "organized crime" in Singapore are wannabe teenage street "gangs" or white-collar criminals.

In the aforementioned countries, they have had "national ids" for decades now, yet it has not added more security or ease to law enforcement as the activists have claimed here.

Have you worked as a law-enforcement officer in any of the countries you mentioned? If not, some links backing up that statement would be appreciated.

 

[turbodog]

This thread is a little stale, but here's some food for thought.

Your cousin Bob is arrested and a DNA sample is taken and stored.

By extension, now part of YOUR DNA is on file.

Privacy is dead.

Land records, credit cards, blog entries, CPF posts, paypal records, mail records, amazon.com history, pizza purchase history, etc can and are being plundered, indexed, and cross-linked at a feverish pace.

 

[daveman]

How long were you in Singapore? I can't speak for Taiwan or Japan, but I spent the first twenty-one years of my life in Singapore, and that statement simply does not reflect the reality in Singapore. Gun crime is almost non-existent in Singapore, and what passes for "organized crime" in Singapore are wannabe teenage street "gangs" or white-collar criminals.



Have you worked as a law-enforcement officer in any of the countries you mentioned? If not, some links backing up that statement would be appreciated.

Sorry Chamenos, you got me there, no links or stats (maybe there are, but I'm certainly not going to search) to prove my position at all besides my personal experience.

 

[deathkenli]

I'm sure those data will be stored on discs and laptops, carry around and get lost or stolen. Like those in the UK.
Did anyone ever read Nineteen Eighty-Four?

 

[Sub_Umbra]

Never mind.