What's Going To Happen With All The TVs When Signals Go Digital Next Year?

[M@elstrom]

I can't believe your Government is shelling out vouchers to people to assist with the DTV upgrade

I'm sure I've seen tiny DTV decoders around, they were the size of the old scanner signal boosters you could get (equal to the larger packet of tic-tacs), digital reception will supposedly allow for increased information flow, interaction & varied content... I have found both SD & HD reception can be adversely effected by distant electrical storms making it unwatchable at times

 

[chimo]

Your border communities with Canada will still have access to broadcast analog signals unless the US plans on building a Faraday cage around the country.
Programming is a whole other issue.

 

[StarHalo]

As a radio hobbyist, the DTV switch represents a huge loss for emergency radio programming - TV audio of local news is always your best bet in a local/regional emergency, as they always have far more resources and information than a given AM radio station. The last time I was in a five day long ice storm power outage, TV audio was all that was needed for nonstop news and updates, there wasn't even a point to venture into standard radio or weather band stations.

Hopefully one of the more progressive receiver builders will get around to building a radio with a DTV-compliant TV audio tuner, but that's going to be quite an engineering challenge, and it's going to be just as expensive and even more complex than a shortwave radio..

 

[santza]

Expect some antenna problems, especially if new frequencies are bumped into higher UHF frequencies. I'll bet that millions of americans are in a need of a new antenna when your analog transmissions end.

At least that happened here when everything was digitized

Start your own antenna company and make millions.

// Santza

 

[BobVA]

Hopefully one of the more progressive receiver builders will get around to building a radio with a DTV-compliant TV audio tuner, but that's going to be quite an engineering challenge, and it's going to be just as expensive and even more complex than a shortwave radio..

I've seen a couple of the smaller DTV converters that run off a DC wall wart. Not as power efficient as an analog radio, but you should be able to run one of those from an appropriate battery pack. Then you could use a battery powered TV, or just connect the audio output from the converter to the audio input on your radio (assuming it's got one) or an FM modulator.

I was thinking of using my coupon for just such a set up. I need to see which ones can be run without a TV (i.e. no complicated menus to deal with) after you've programmed the channels.


Cheers,
Bob

 

[PharmerMike]

I'm curious to hear about your experience getting an analog TV up and running on DTV.

Mine has not been successful so far. I live about 15-20 miles away from the TV towers, but have not been able to get a signal with two different indoor amplified antennas. When the DTV converter box attempts to scan for signals during setup, it finds nothing. Analog signals come in fine on the same TV.

Any thoughts?:thinking: I'm trying to avoid an outdoor antenna if possible.

 

[BobVA]

Check out:
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

You can punch in your zip code (anything else is optional) and get a list of stations by frequency, bearing and range from your location. That should give you an idea if you should be seeing something. Some stations broadcast their digital signals from an entirely different location than their analog signals, so you may think you're close to a digital source but that may not be the case.

If there are digital stations in your neighborhood (e.g within 10-15 miles) then I'd suggest:
- Make absolutely sure you've got the box hooked up correctly - cables, correct output from the box to correct input on the TV. All the internal menus from the convertor box should look perfect on your screen.
- Make sure you've got the antenna connected properly and, if it's an amplified antenna, you've got power properly connected. Try the same antenna/cable direct to the TV and see if you get analog TV ok.
- Make sure the converter box is set to "ATSC", "Air" or "Antenna" and NOT "Cable" or "QAM." if that is an option.
- Double check the set-up procedure in the manual. Some of the boxes are pretty stubborn about how you have to do channel scanning. Reset it if possible.

If none of that helps, I'd start to seriously suspect the box.

Good luck!

Bob

 

[PharmerMike]

BobVA- Thanks for the link and the advice.

I did all of the above. I do occasionally get a "weak signal" indicator when I punch in a known channel (instead of "no signal"), so the DTV box seems to be doing something, but not much.

I'm using a Digitalstream box; I'm wondering if anyone has had any experience with these, good or bad? Also, is there a good website that ranks/rates these?

When I went to antennaweb, I learned that I was less than 15 miles away from the signals that I want to receive. I'm being told I just need a small, multidirectional antenna with no amplification. I tried using an indoor antenna with amplification with the above results.

Maybe it's time to give up on TV and just spend all of my spare time on CPF...

 

[louie]

I have a DigitalStream DTX9950 (from Ratshack) and it generally works fine for me with passive indoor rabbit ears. Some stations I can get slightly better reception by moving the antenna, but I can mostly leave it. Sometimes reception weakens and the picture pixelates. Some podunk stations are too weak and I don't care; all the majors are fine.

This just augments my analog cable service, giving me a few DTV channels I otherwise can't see, plus greatly improved reception without local channel cable ghosts.

I'm in a Seattle neighborhood, don't know the distance to all the towers, but likely less than 15 miles.

 

[BobVA]

There's some discussion on AVS Forums that might be useful:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=186

The results you are (or aren't) seeing are kind of puzzling. If you were in an RF cage (e.g. hardware cloth under stucco construction, etc.) you'd be getting crummy analog reception as well. Just some wild guesses:

- Are you getting good analog UHF reception with the antenna? Most DTV is currently on UHF so if you've been comparing that with your VHF reception it can be misleading. (For example, my local VHF channel "4" broadcasts their digital signal in UHF, but it still shows as "4" on the digital box.) The antenna may not be performing well at UHF, or you may not be getting a good UHF signal inside your house.

- The box could be defective - might be something as simple as a bad antenna jack. If you bought it locally you might try exchanging it for another one, or a different model.

Good luck!

Regards,
Bob

 

[PharmerMike]

BobVA

You nailed it with this comment earlier:

"If none of that helps, I'd start to seriously suspect the box."

I decided to pursue this route. I did some research online and heard enough good comments about the Zenith DTT901 that I gave it a shot. Hooked it up in about five minutes and had 12 channels coming in crystal clear. This was with the unamplified rabbit ears that came with my 13-inch TV.

Thanks for yours (and others) input. I am pretty impressed that I can get this many channels in clearly with no monthly fee.:twothumbs

 

[Norm]

I'm surprised to hear any negative comments about digital TV, providing the antenna is adequate the results here in Australia are very noticeably improved picture with no breakup.

The signal MAY be better, but as was pointed out, digital is not all it's cracked up to be. Cable decoder boxes will need "6X oversampling" etc. as the old CD players had when they first came out. The glitch you see is an interruption the digital file, and then the audio and video signal get out of sync. Early digital audio playback had the same problems, although it produced a speaker destroying sound when it happened...

When you oversample, the raw signal comes in, is re-samples several times, and then the signal is forwarded on to the playback unit. The oversampling allows the signal to be reconstructed when it glitches (patching the holes) so you end up with a nice, smooth signal.

Give it five years (maybe less) and those glitches will be gone.

I not too sure how you can achieve over sampling with a signal that is arriving in real time, it is quite different reading ahead with a CD were the data can be read at a faster than real time rate.
Norm

 

[turbodog]

Hopefully, many will use this as motivation to kick TV altogether.

I quit watching 16 years ago and it is one of the top 5 best things I have ever done.

 

[BobVA]

...Hooked it up in about five minutes and had 12 channels coming in crystal clear. This was with the unamplified rabbit ears that came with my 13-inch TV.

Cool! Glad it worked out.

 

[Flying Turtle]

I could kick myself. I managed to let my converter box coupons expire before using them. Tomorrow I'll call someone to see if they will still work. Hopefully they'll allow it, or let me get some more. I'd like to get at least one converter.

Geoff

 

[Timothybil]

First - ALL DTV is UHF - that's the whole point of the exercise. It may claim to be 4.1 or 7.2 or whatever, but it is really 36 and 47 and 82. It's now a UHF world, baby!

I have done the conversion. I live in a deep fringe area between two markets. It is 60 or so miles in either direction to the towers. We have two dedicated VHF/UHF deep fringe antennas on the roof (one story house) with a joiner and a mast-mounted amplifier, with 75 ohm coax into the house. It then goes to a splitter with one half feeding the living room TV and the other half going to the basement to the TV down there.

Got pretty good analog reception for being deep fringe - got channels 3,4,6,7,9,14,27,42, and 44. Reasonable good pictures, some static and noise on UHF.

Got the coupons, got a RCA and a DigitalStream 9950 converter box. The DigitalStream is definitely the better of the two, especially in it's ability to dig out signals. Currently get 4.1, 4.2, 6.1, 6.2, 7.1, 7.2, 9.1, 9.2, 14.1, 27.1, 27.2, 27.3. 44.1, and 44.2. Channels 3 and 42 just don't register at all - apparently not enough signal strength. We are running on the bottom end of acceptable signal, so all of the channels have on occasion done the 'freeze and pixilate' thing. If we lived up the hill further or had the antennas higher in the air we would probably cure that.

I like DTV. The picture is better than analog on all channels, especially the UHF ones that used to be pretty noisy. The extra channels don't do a lot for use except for one that runs 24hr weather on .2, and Iowa PBS which runs THREE channels where there used to be one - love the variety. All of the rest of the .2s basically run sitcom reruns or Judge xxx, so no great loss.

I guess the three words of DTV are Antenna, Antenna, Antenna. Get a good UHF antenna, get it up in the air and aimed properly, and amp it if you have to.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I think it's a shame that the PBS stations won't be able to maintain an analog presence (unless they go "low power.") There will be so many people (especially the elderly) that will essentially lose TV unless they have cable or someone can install their convertor box for them. Considering the mission of PBS it seems that an exception could be made for those stations to keep their frequencies.

 

[Monocrom]

I think it's a shame that the PBS stations won't be able to maintain an analog presence (unless they go "low power.") There will be so many people (especially the elderly) that will essentially lose TV unless they have cable or someone can install their convertor box for them. Considering the mission of PBS it seems that an exception could be made for those stations to keep their frequencies.

Sorry, some greedy @$$holes are going to be making too much money when all TV stations go digital. They can't be bothered to care about the elderly or the disabled who have very few things in life to look forward to, other than a good program on TV.

 

[Timothybil]

I'm curious to hear about your experience getting an analog TV up and running on DTV.

Mine has not been successful so far. I live about 15-20 miles away from the TV towers, but have not been able to get a signal with two different indoor amplified antennas. When the DTV converter box attempts to scan for signals during setup, it finds nothing. Analog signals come in fine on the same TV.

Any thoughts?:thinking: I'm trying to avoid an outdoor antenna if possible.

I've done it on our TV and tried to help a couple of neighbors. We live in a deep fringe area halfway between Sioux City, Iowa and Omaha, Nebraska. Analog was ok - VHF worked but UHF was nothing to write home about. We have two antenna on the roof - one pointed at each station cluster mentioned above AND an on-mast amplifier to improve the signal. That is the critical part. With analog tv the tuner tried to do its best to pull out a signal all the way down to white noise. Digital is designed so that if it does not get at least so much signal it gives up until the signal improves again - cause of the dreaded 'freeze' and pixelation.

I have been following the discussion in the tv trade mags, and a lot of the concern is with the people 20-30 miles from the transmitter who have been perfectly happy with rabbit ears on analog. The concern again is signal strength. The answer is either amplified rabbit ears or an outside (rooftop) antenna. They aren't worried about people like me because we aren't supposed to be able to get UHF this far out anyways. That's what cable and satellite are for.

The neighbors I tried to help - one had rabbit ears on top of a hill and the other has a roof antenna but no amp. They both only get a couple of channels of digital out of the 15 or so available.

 

[Radiophile]

The neighbors I tried to help - one had rabbit ears on top of a hill and the other has a roof antenna but no amp. They both only get a couple of channels of digital out of the 15 or so available.

After the analog signals go dark things may improve. Right now most stations have two signals being broadcast - analog and digital. In that case, the digital signal is on a different frequency and may be UHF where the analog is VHF and vice versa. After the analog signals go dark the digital signals should be moved to the analog frequency and power should be the same OR MORE so the coverage for the digital signal is similar to what it was with analog. If it's not, let those stations know. Contact them and give a reception report to the engineers - they may be able to get a better signal your way if the station is interested in providing similar coverage as before. Contact them now and let them know you're having a problem and they may be able to help or let you know what is going to happen after 2/17/09.