Why Do My 9007 Bulbs Have Covers Over Them? 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan. Removable?

[Marcturus]

I don't know these, might be 90mm Hella? Can you see the wildly varying clearance of the assembly to the rest of the car? Almost hurts my eyes.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

I don't see it, but maybe I don't want to. He also has these to offer. What kind of performance do these look like they would provide?

As far as that mid picture above, I'm not seeing anything myself. Maybe Scheinwerfermann does, or maybe it's just a non-issue.

I don't know these, might be 90mm Hella? Can you see the wildly varying clearance of the assembly to the rest of the car? Almost hurts my eyes.

The fit and finish of the projector lamps shown does leave something to be desired, and could indicate that the rest of the units have similar 'issues'.

 

[Hilldweller]

I've used the 65w Osram H7s, Rock; I really liked them.
I had them in both my motorcycle and my MINI Cooper.

 

[-Virgil-]

I don't see any broken tabs on the factory lights. There's nothing wrong with the fit and finish of the projector conversion; they were made by Vmaxx (a German accessory company) and use Hella modular beam units. I don't think they're still made, because I don't see them any more on the vmaxx.de site.

 

[therock]

I don't see any broken tabs on the factory lights. There's nothing wrong with the fit and finish of the projector conversion; they were made by Vmaxx (a German accessory company) and use Hella modular beam units. I don't think they're still made, because I don't see them any more on the vmaxx.de site.

Not my cup-o-tea and the photo makes the lower points under the turn signals look like it could fit better. Interesting though.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

There's nothing wrong with the fit and finish of the projector conversion; they were made by Vmaxx (a German accessory company) and use Hella modular beam units.

They look just a little "off" to me, with the gaps in the lower inboard corners near the bumper. Maybe it's more that I just don't like the styling. If they do use Hella modular beam units, and everything is mounted such that they can be aimed, and keep their aim, then I guess that's great-- but ewwww, they look tacky.

But I guess that's digressing from the main thread. Now that we have assurances that the ordered items are not damaged, then those should be great for him -- and will make the vehicle look stock.

 

[therock]

OK Guys, they are here. Here is the label. Looks good to go for US Roads.

 

[-Virgil-]

Yup, you're good to go. Points off for ZKW saying "LHD" instead of "RHT", but that's not a regulated marking. There's no arrow for the HCR function (the arrows under the A/parking lamp and 1b/turn signal markings indicate that this particular lamp is for the driver's side of the car). The "25" near the (E1) means peak high beam intensity is approximately 75,000 candela with a 55w H7 bulb operated at 12.0v. That's approximately 104,000 candela with that same bulb operated at 13.2v, and if we substitute a 65w H7 bulb operated at 13.2v that's 145,500 candela [em]per[/i] high beam headlamp. I don't think you're going to lack for high beam illumination.

 

[therock]

Thanks for the confirmation. The seller and I have been at it because of DHL's incompetence. I ordered over 30 days ago and the tracking has not moved.. I contacted the seller and he is visiting the US and made a comment he will not be back until 1/2013.
This made me nervous so I had PayPal get into it. They lit him up good and until today I have been responding to fiery emails. I kept cool though and told him I was just making sure I was protected.

The thing is he would not call DHL to initiate an investigation. I tried and they told me it had to be him. His comment of being un available to do so until 2013 was disturbing.

So I apologized and hope he cools off and still gives me good feedback on ebay. We will see.

The units are very pristine showing no signs of buffing. There looks like an aiming motor or servo inside. They have MegaWatt brand 55Watt H7's in both holes. Can't wait.

I have a message in for Daniel Stern to call for the harness order.

 

[Alaric Darconville]

Points off for ZKW saying "LHD" instead of "RHT", but that's not a regulated marking.

Well, it OUGHTA be!

therock, can we get a resize on some of those pics? I see an 1104x736 and some 747x1378's up there; 800x800 is the max.

 

[dave_b]

Could either Scheinwerfermann or Alaric Darconville comment: what (if any) legal ramification do North American drivers have to worry about when importing ECE headlamp assemblies for use on North American roads? I was in contact with Daniel Stern, and he has a pair of ECE "Chevrolet Alero" headlight assemblies he would like to sell me for my Alero. He says that since they use H7 bulbs, in Mr. Stern's words "H7 is a newer bulb design, technically quite superior to 9006 for a fair bunch of reasons: it is a much higher-precision bulb in terms of filament placement and focus. Its filament supports are designed so as not to cause stray reflections of the brightly-lit filament; there's a metal-free zone around the H7 filament so the optics get an unobstructed, no-stray-reflections view of the filament. This means the resultant beam pattern can be much better focused for broader and longer-reaching seeing distance and more even road surface illumination. There is no such care in design of the 9006, which produces a substantial amount of uncontrollable light because of reflections off the filament supports; as a result, the optical designer must make unpleasant compromises in beam distribution to keep glare down to the (lax, in the US) legal limits. Moreover, a basic ordinary H7 has much higher filament luminance which gives a much "punchier" beam pattern and that would be the case even if the H7 and 9006 produced the same amount of light, but they don't; a regular H7 produces 1410 lumens; a 9006 produces 1000."

So, long story short, they would be an excellent upgrade for my car, much in the same way the ECE Grand Caravan assemblies are for the OP. I am in Canada, and Mr. Stern says "Both US and ECE headlamps are permitted in Canada (Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108.1 is the Federal standard that permits ECE headlamps)." However, do American residents who are licenced and insured in the US have anything to worry about running ECE headlamps in the event that they are in an accident, or their vehicle is inspected and the different assemblies are noted? When I am driving my car in the states, do I have to worry about my non-standard (for North America) beam pattern attracting unwanted attention or insurance difficulties in case of an accident?

Thanks for your comments in advance!

 

[therock]

Resizing done. Sorry!

Which brings me to another image pointing to where two small holes are in the drivers side assembly.
I was fondling my new pets and noticed one is cleaner inside than the other and see two vent holes in only the drivers side.

Just curious. Would you plug them for preservation sake. I can tell that some moisture does enter there. Tiny splatties on the reflectors. Plug em? What are they for?

 

[-Virgil-]

what (if any) legal ramification do North American drivers have to worry about when importing ECE headlamp assemblies for use on North American roads?

It's not legal to import into the United States a regulated item of motor vehicle equipment (which would include a headlamp) that is not compliant with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 108, but that is physically capable of being installed on a vehicle certified by its maker as compliant with all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (which would include 108), unless such imported item is intended for research and development, show and display, or exportation. However, this provision of the law has long been very low on the enforcement priority list, and when it has (seldom) been enforced, it's been against large-scale importers of blatantly noncompliant lamps. The last big high-profile such bust was nearly 10 years ago; see here, and was an action taken only after the culprit (APC) ignored repeated warnings. They paid the fine, which was a piddling amount for them, and regarded it as nice, inexpensive advertising and went right on importing (genuinely) unsafe noncompliant lamps. These days, enforcement action against attempted importation of noncompliant vehicle lighting equipment most often focuses on HID kits, which are routinely seized and destroyed by US Customs, though it nevertheless remains easy to buy them in the US.

It is illegal for a party regulated under the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (i.e., manufacturer, distributor/dealer/agent) to render inoperative or noncompliant any mandatory item of vehicle safety equipment. Installing a headlamp not compliant with FMVSS 108 would count as rendering inoperative or noncompliant the headlamps of the vehicle. Vehicle owners, however, are not regulated at the Federal level. They are regulated at the state level, and state codes vary widely in their permissions and prohibitions on vehicle owners.

"H7 is a newer bulb design, technically quite superior to 9006 for a fair bunch of reasons: it is a much higher-precision bulb in terms of filament placement and focus. Its filament supports are designed so as not to cause stray reflections of the brightly-lit filament; there's a metal-free zone around the H7 filament so the optics get an unobstructed, no-stray-reflections view of the filament. This means the resultant beam pattern can be much better focused for broader and longer-reaching seeing distance and more even road surface illumination. There is no such care in design of the 9006, which produces a substantial amount of uncontrollable light because of reflections off the filament supports; as a result, the optical designer must make unpleasant compromises in beam distribution to keep glare down to the (lax, in the US) legal limits. Moreover, a basic ordinary H7 has much higher filament luminance which gives a much "punchier" beam pattern and that would be the case even if the H7 and 9006 produced the same amount of light, but they don't; a regular H7 produces 1410 lumens; a 9006 produces 1000."

I don't see anything wrong or fishy in that comparison of H7 and HB4 (9006).

So, long story short, they would be an excellent upgrade for my car

I agree; both the domestic and the export Alero headlamps were made by a reputable maker (Magneti-Marelli/Carello, a predecessor company to today's Automotive Lighting company). The domestic lamps aren't bad, but I recall finding the RPO T84 (GM internal code for "export, right-hand traffic") units considerably nicer to drive behind.

I am in Canada, and Mr. Stern says "Both US and ECE headlamps are permitted in Canada (Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108.1 is the Federal standard that permits ECE headlamps)."

That's correct, and it means there is no legal impediment to your importation or use of the Chevrolet Alero headlamps on your car. However, if I'm recalling correctly the domestic lamp includes the side marker light and side marker reflector functions, and the export lamp does not (those functions are not required in Europe). So in order to maintain the safety compliance of your car, you'd need to add separate side marker lights and reflectors. This is not difficult or expensive to do.

do American residents who are licenced and insured in the US have anything to worry about running ECE headlamps in the event that they are in an accident

That's a good question. If such an incident were to wind up in court or another dispute-resolution venue, a claim that the headlamps caused the crash would have to be supported with evidence much more substantial than "They aren't marked DOT" or "They aren't manufacturer-certified as complying with FMVSS 108". For one thing, the lack of certification does not necessarily mean the lamp does not meet the relevant regulations, so an identical lamp (or pair of lamps) would need to be tested in a laboratory and the results evaluated by an expert. Then there would be the questions of headlamp aim and condition (which are both a big bugaboo in court cases like this no matter what kind of headlamps are in question).

When I am driving my car in the states, do I have to worry about my non-standard (for North America) beam pattern attracting unwanted attention or insurance difficulties in case of an accident?

No. For one thing, a properly-aimed ECE headlamp produces less glare to oncoming traffic than a properly-aimed US headlamp, so there would be no reason why the ECE lamp would attract particular attention to the vehicle. Of course if the headlamp is improperly aimed, improperly equipped (blue bulbs, HID kit, etc.) or misused (e.g., the driver uses the high beams in traffic) or the ECE headlamp is for left-hand traffic, then it will attract attention and the motorist may get a (deserved) citation.

Beyond that, vehicles are regulated by the jurisdictional power of the state or province where they're registered. States and provinces reciprocally recognize each others' vehicle equipment standards for the purposes of transient motoring, so you cannot be cited in (say) Alberta for driving your Arizona-registered car with window tint that does not meet Alberta standards. If you import that car to Canada and go to register it in Alberta, however, you would be required to make it meet Alberta provincial standards. Transient motorists are, however, subject to the vehicle usage regulations of wherever they are driving through. If a particular state or province says you cannot use your vehicle's fog lamps while driving more than 30 mph / 50 kph (or whatever) then you are responsible for knowing and obeying that requirement even if it differs from the fog lamp usage requirements of your home state or province where the vehicle is registered. Canadian (and Mexican) motorists are permitted to drive their vehicles into and within the United States whether or not those vehicles comply with US Federal safety standards. It's always interesting to go to Arizona and see the many Mexican-plated vehicles with ECE lighting equipment. Occasionally one sees a Canadian-plated vehicle with ECE headlamps (1st-generation Smarts, '86-'94 Saabs...), too.

 

[-Virgil-]

Which brings me to another image pointing to where two small holes are in the drivers side assembly.I was fondling my new pets and noticed one is cleaner inside than the other and see two vent holes in only the drivers side.

Vent holes...in the lens? Odd. Do they look like the lens was cast with them, or like they were drilled? Can you show us a close-up photo? I don't think they're supposed to be there; those lamps have internal venting systems in the housing (not the lens). I would probably plug them, but not with any kind of silicone.

 

[therock]

Vent holes...in the lens? Odd. Do they look like the lens was cast with them, or like they were drilled? Can you show us a close-up photo? I don't think they're supposed to be there; those lamps have internal venting systems in the housing (not the lens). I would probably plug them, but not with any kind of silicone.

My phone cam doesn't do it justice. Too lazy to get the big rig out tonight.
I am a machinist and looking at it with a magnifier I see no evidence of a drill in the bores. I am still not convinced its OE. The edges of the holes are not chamfered at all. Maybe a soul was running scared from burning high wattage in it.

They are both nice but the one with no holes is cleaner inside. Perhaps each came off of a different vehicle. The seller had more than one set.
I have some 2-part epoxy that dries clear. Would you agree a drop of that on each one to suffice? They are less than 1/16th.

 

[therock]

WoW! Let there be light.

I marked my current light aiming and did the job without moving the van and it almost came in exact. I tweaked them to match the tape on the wall as best I could because the spot pattern is different. I drove it a bunch at night and never got a flash. I'm looking for a shop that has the aiming equipment though.


Mercy sakes alive the difference. I made sure it was not too high (IMO) by driving the girlfriends van while she drove mine on our quiet level road here and on low beam they are good. Just right to me. I had her follow me too.

Making sure the lows were aimed to not offend, when she hit the high beams good lord! I will have to be conservative with those. With the Van's OE lights the high beams could be on and I would be rarely get flashed. But with these I'm sure I will get prompted right away.

WoW, just WoW!

Not for the faint of Wallet so don't ask. I have no regrets. Thanks to Daniel Stern Lighting for a great harness and guiding information.

I love the Osram 65w H7 lamps he suggested. The color is totally neutral. They don't look blue or yellow. Just great perfect light where its supposed to be.

The difference I see right away is it seems the contrast in high and low beam aiming is higher with these. And it may be the intended Zizala engineering.

 

[-Virgil-]

Sounds like a great result. Thought you were going to use the Osram 65w H7 bulbs, though?

 

[therock]

I went with Daniel Stearns Lighting recommendation. They came with his wiring harness. Which is very nice. I hit the road every day@ 3:30AM. This AM was a nice change.

 

[therock]

Is anyone familiar with the adjusters on these lights? Am I crazy or is there one for both beams up and down, and one for the high beams only left and right? Still tweaking and looking for a shop with a meter I found that when I back away from my wall the high beams come together. So I moved them out to the cross hairs via an adjuster and was surprized to see just the highs moving.

I just want to get some confirmation on it via an experienced person. Thanks

 

[-Virgil-]

There will definitely be a way of moving the low beams and the high beams vertically and horizontally. I don't know whether it's together or separate. Those lamps will have a levelling motor on them, and if you're not finding a separate vertical aim adjustor for the low beams it will be somewhere on that levelling motor's housing.

Keep looking!