Why Quality Matters

[phosphor]

Murphy's Law.....things go awry. Part of the human condition is to look for permanence in a universe where there is no refuge from change. Once I owned a Brass Peak, but when I went to use it the light fell out of my hand and plunged into the raging river below. I wished it were the same light your wife was using.

 

[357mag1]

The only lights I had go bad are Nitecore and Jetbeam and I understand they are affiliated. Either way I don't buy their products anymore and haven't had any more faulty lights. Three Nitecores and Three Jetbeams so it wasn't like I just received one bad sample.

 

[380long]

357mag1, Can I ask what sort of problems you had with your Jetbeams & Nitecores? I own one Jetbeam a RRT-3 and have been happy with it so far and also just purchased my first Nitecore. Thinking now that may have been a mistake!

 

[angelofwar]

No manufacturer will ever have a 100% perfect record. I guess you got a duff one?

But the head breaking off??? C'mon...that goes beyond "one just got out"...sounds like poor machining/material...coupled with poor QC.

My older brother is also military and deploys to "hostile" environments quite frequently...he got one of my old L1's a few years back. My younger bro is an adventurer/outdoorsy guy, and he got one of my G2L's a few years back as well. I couldn't/wouldn't give them anything less.

I'm glad your wife wasn't in a "less than hospitable" situation...it could have broken at a worse time. The things I do, my lights CANNOT fail...if, by an act of God, they do, I'll have a back-up (usually a...well, E1B Back-up...).

I've heard of Surefires being broke on purpose, or extreme "accidents", but have never heard of one failing due to A) Unknown reasons (i.e. giddy electronics) B) Being dropped (minus a busted bulb). On the other hand, I've read stories of SF's surviving extreme accidents, that, well, most MIC lights would not have survived. I tell people at work this...Surefire isn't just a "cool tactical name"...(o.k., maybe it is now), but, it's actually a description of the light..."Guaranteed To Work".

(And yes, there are others, HDS, Peak, Elzetta, etc. al., that have similar track records of "just working", I only mention SF cause that's what I own)

Edit...just realized this was a semi-necro thread, but, the stories are still the same...

 

[reppans]

The real answer is the CPF motto: 2=1, 1=0.

I don't think the Surefires/HDSs are so much more reliable that if you must have light, you can go without carrying a spare. In any case, at 3x the price, I'm pretty certain the risk of 3 cheaper lights failing at the same time is quite a bit smaller than 1 HDS or Surefire failing. I've done searches of "HDS/Surefire + warranty" and read through enough failure threads to know they are far from perfect too.

I'm not arguing about the better feel of build quality, pride of ownership, better customer service or warranty; just the point that if you buy the highest quality light, you're somehow protected from ever being in the dark. A back-up is always going to be the best solution for that.

 

[357mag1]

357mag1, Can I ask what sort of problems you had with your Jetbeams & Nitecores? I own one Jetbeam a RRT-3 and have been happy with it so far and also just purchased my first Nitecore. Thinking now that may have been a mistake!

Sure. I purchased a Jetbeam M1X in 2009 and the wife got me a RRT-1 for my birthday in 2009. Loved those lights and purchased one more of each as well as the Jet 1 Pro EX3.

First disappointment was the 2nd M1X was really a totally different light and by design and had much less throw. That is comparable to buying a sports car and finding out they detuned the engine without mentioning it anywhere in the specs. The worst part was I turned it on one day and it just died. Fortunately that light was under warranty and Bug Out Gear took care of getting a replacement.

My first RRT-1 had impressive throw and I liked the ring. My second for some reason never threw as well and periodically would not turn on. It eventually died outside warranty. Just refuses to come on.

The Jet 1 Pro EX3 was an awesome 2AA light and one of my best 2AA throwers. After having it for about 18 months it started acting up. It hasn't quit completely yet but is much dimmer than when I purchased it. I've stripped it down and cleaned the threads and checked connection points to no avail.

Similar issues with my Nitecore Extreme Infinity and D10, two of my favourite EDC lights until the D10 quit working (won't turn on) and the Extreme keeps going dim. It hasn't died but is not reliable. I've carried two Quarks about three times as long as either of those lights and they are still going strong.

I did order an EZ 123 which would not come on out of the box. Finally sent it back after cleaning threads and checking connections repeatedly.

Out of 9 lights purchased 5 Jetbeam and 4 Nitecore only three are presently working without issues. With well over 200 lights in my collection I know how to keep them maintained and none of the other lights have failed.

The only bright side is my Nitecore PD20 and the original M1X and RRT-1 all still work and are well liked. I would have already purchased an RRT-3 if it wasn't for the above track record. It is a higher end light so lets hope the quality control is better than I experienced or you just get lucky and it keeps running like these three.

 

[reppans]

Out of 9 lights purchased 5 Jetbeam and 4 Nitecore only three are presently working without issues. With well over 200 lights in my collection I know how to keep them maintained and none of the other lights have failed.

Wow, that's some testimonial.

When you read about the random failure here and there, you gotta take it with a grain of salt. But when you hear from people with reasonably large sample sizes, the statistically "accuracy" means something else altogether.

Thanks for sharing that.

 

[pjandyho]

The real answer is the CPF motto: 2=1, 1=0.

I don't think the Surefires/HDSs are so much more reliable that if you must have light, you can go without carrying a spare. In any case, at 3x the price, I'm pretty certain the risk of 3 cheaper lights failing at the same time is quite a bit smaller than 1 HDS or Surefire failing. I've done searches of "HDS/Surefire + warranty" and read through enough failure threads to know they are far from perfect too.

I'm not arguing about the better feel of build quality, pride of ownership, better customer service or warranty; just the point that if you buy the highest quality light, you're somehow protected from ever being in the dark. A back-up is always going to be the best solution for that.

I agree that we must always carry spare lights. Even though I buy primarily Surefire, HDS, and McGizmo, I am still often seen with at least two or three lights. One thing you should note though is that having multiple cheaper lights does not guarantee less chances of being left in the dark. I have a friend who had a couple of lights (American company and Chinese made but reputable amongst CPF community) failed him because of tail cap issues. I told him to tighten the retaining rings on both the TCs but to no avail. In the end he got to do a simple mod on the TC by opening it up and adding a thin retaining ring in there so that the current could flow properly. It worked in the end but it should not have happened. I have also seen some with one failure after another, myself included. If you are real unlucky, there is no guarantee that even with three cheaper lights it won't fail you simultaneously. I realized that some budget lights come with very poor QC, often with less than adequate soldering, and some with very poor electrical conductivity.

What I am saying is, buying a more expensive light like, for example a Surefire, does not guarantee failure wouldn't happen but it does greatly minimize failure from happening because of the higher level of QC, design and manufacturing process involved. Having a spare or two is still mandatory if one's life depends on it, and having two or three of such more expensive flashlights does greatly eliminate the odds of failure happening.

 

[reppans]

^^ no arguments from me....

I'd love to buy a high quality HDS, or Surefire (McGizmo is too much $$ though), not necessarily for reliability, but more for the other intangibles I mentioned above. Unfortunately they won't make anything that fits my needs (AA, moonlight & another single digit lumen mode). So I'm stuck in the mid-priced range trying to cover the theoretical lower reliability with spare lights. I say theoretical because all 5 of my purchase are running just fine (crossing fingers ).

 

[pjandyho]

^^ no arguments from me....

I'd love to buy a high quality HDS, or Surefire (McGizmo is too much $$ though), not necessarily for reliability, but more for the other intangibles I mentioned above. Unfortunately they won't make anything that fits my needs (AA, moonlight & another single digit lumen mode). So I'm stuck in the mid-priced range trying to cover the theoretical lower reliability with spare lights. I say theoretical because all 5 of my purchase are running just fine (crossing fingers ).

Other than the 3 brands that I had mentioned above, I think the best and most reliable brand that is also priced cheaper would be Zebralight. That would be my recommendation for anyone like yourself who needed it to run on AA as well as spot a moon mode and so on. I just love my Zebralights.

 

[reppans]

Thanks I have one and love it too.

 

[pnwoutdoors]

Why Quality Matters ... I'd rather have a simple working light than a fancy broken one.

Agreed.

Myself, I've been through numerous lights in the past year and more, yet I continually reach for one of my several Malkoff drop-ins (for dead-solid reliability) or 4Sevens Quark 123 (for portability and simplicity). There are all sorts of lights brighter than these ... but these work, every time. They've survived being dropped, getting wet, sitting in sub-30ºF temperatures for days, being battered around in a daypack, and other uglies.

Reliability: the irreplaceable feature.