Don't waste your money buying cheap lights. Just so you can complain that your 4sevens, jetbeam, fenix, zebra or other crap light broke when the wind blew. These lights are just for people that don't know any better. People here should know better. Flashlights with several levels of output go unused. I have found with a flashlight I need max output or min, never something in the middle. Only time I ever needed several levels is with a headlamp. Since this is for closeup work I have found a need to use all levels. I really like the Surefire minimus, small great UI, and easy to pack. For flashlights I always seem to grab the single cell lights. Small and easy to carry. I have long sold my 2 cell plus lights. Just too heavy and big to take any place comfortably. If it is not small or easy to carry, for me it just collected dust. For lumen's, unless I need a spot light 200 lumen's max was all I ever needed. I have found more lumen's just eat batteries faster, and serve better for just showing off. I would say I wasted at least $900 to figure this out.
Things I Learned
- Thread starter brianna
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So basically you now use an expensive, 200 lumen, single cell light? Lighten up, some of us like our "cheap" multilevel lights.
I for one use more than half of the outputs on my Quark regularly.
Also, as a visually impaired flashlight user, 200 lumens is not even enough for me to walk the dogs at night.
I for one use more than half of the outputs on my Quark regularly.
Also, as a visually impaired flashlight user, 200 lumens is not even enough for me to walk the dogs at night.
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biglights
Enlightened
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Everyone is different, and if all that you need is 200 lumens that is great. I myself use almost all the different settings, love it. 200 lumens for me is my around the house light. I need the BOOM for outside, 2000 lumens light up the night!! TK70 or at least 1100 lumens with my TN31, and yes I use the low all the way to high.
I don't have a lot of up to date lights myself and have very few multi level lights and find that for the most part 40-100 lumens suffices well and decent runtime without constant battery swaps is preferred such that 2 cell lights get used for long sessions more than 1 cell lights. Late at night I sometimes only need about 10-40 lumens so if I had a multi level new light that would be medium to mid low level. I agree that for the most part 200 lumens would be too much but when you are working on something it would be definitely useful. The fact I spent most of my life using incans I guess makes it easier for me to be comfortable with sub 100 lumen flashlights as even a 5mm based headlamp was superior to an incan headlamp or holding a small incan light in my mouth.
I dont agree with your statment that zebras fenix etc, is only crap. If you messure quality by the thickness of the tube, then,.. well.. buy something heavy. I have had no problems with the brands you mentioned, and trust me, im not babying my lights. I always drop test most of my lights before they get put into use. Yeah i dont care if they get scratched up, dinged or dented doing drop test on tile floor. Wont carry a light that cant be accidental dropped. If it dies, i will simply mod it or trash it. Won't buy another one or even send it back. Only ultra cheap budget lights have failed the drops so far. I only trust the lights i have tortured myself nomatter what brand.
If a light gets too big, it wont leave the house that often . 2x18650 with powerleds is fine for around the home where you have lots of light polluting. A 1x18650 is a better size for my outdoor use. If you have seen the terrain over here, you would understand why. You go steep uphill or downhill. If i want flat terrain, then i have to walk on the road down by the sea. No way im dragging the extra weight up to a mountianlake or something. My backpack is always filled up with other stuff like: a tent, wading pants, food, extra clothes +++ etc. etc. I would never find the room for something like a tk70. Not even if i use my 125L reconpack. A big light is no priority for me when outdoors. 200'ish lumens is pretty overkill when you got no ambient light nearby. And i rather bring a small light + a sleepingbag, than a big light and no sleeping bag
I also like the 2 mode lights. Dim for runtime, full when i need alot of light. I really like the good old ui. Head tightened for max, loose for lo. I dont ever use a "tactical" overhand grip when im walking, so modechange is better for me with a simple headtwist. (no need to change grip for a modechange, as you need to do with all rear clicky operated ui's)
Hard driven xm-l ? They are more fun than useful. Eats the batteries faster than packman on steroids. I only end up with a drained light, sore eyes, and some angry friends because i blinded the crap out of everyone around the camp fire.... Most of the time, less is more.
If a light gets too big, it wont leave the house that often . 2x18650 with powerleds is fine for around the home where you have lots of light polluting. A 1x18650 is a better size for my outdoor use. If you have seen the terrain over here, you would understand why. You go steep uphill or downhill. If i want flat terrain, then i have to walk on the road down by the sea. No way im dragging the extra weight up to a mountianlake or something. My backpack is always filled up with other stuff like: a tent, wading pants, food, extra clothes +++ etc. etc. I would never find the room for something like a tk70. Not even if i use my 125L reconpack. A big light is no priority for me when outdoors. 200'ish lumens is pretty overkill when you got no ambient light nearby. And i rather bring a small light + a sleepingbag, than a big light and no sleeping bag
I also like the 2 mode lights. Dim for runtime, full when i need alot of light. I really like the good old ui. Head tightened for max, loose for lo. I dont ever use a "tactical" overhand grip when im walking, so modechange is better for me with a simple headtwist. (no need to change grip for a modechange, as you need to do with all rear clicky operated ui's)
Hard driven xm-l ? They are more fun than useful. Eats the batteries faster than packman on steroids. I only end up with a drained light, sore eyes, and some angry friends because i blinded the crap out of everyone around the camp fire.... Most of the time, less is more.
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Having gone through the gamut of AAA, AA, Cr123 andother lights andback again I have learned that for ME that I happen to prefer AAA lights to all others. their size makes up for any battery limitation. I prefer low to medium longer lasting lights rather than brighter shorter lasting lights. For brands, I have had excellant luck with Streamlight and Fenix both. the early Fenix clickies gave me some problem but several since and their twist head have been exemplary. In fact my L0PSE has been carried in my pocket an dused daily for going on five years, a pretty impressive time.
What does this experience tell me? That each person has different wants, needs and experiences. To say one brand is better than another or is crap is using my experience to draw defintive conclusions which may not be true for another person with different experience. And who am I to say my experience or opinions is better than someone elses.
What does this experience tell me? That each person has different wants, needs and experiences. To say one brand is better than another or is crap is using my experience to draw defintive conclusions which may not be true for another person with different experience. And who am I to say my experience or opinions is better than someone elses.
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127.0.0.1
Flashlight Enthusiast
4 out of 5 bogeymen agree that +1000 lumens will keep them away
biglights
Enlightened
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- May 13, 2012
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- 515
Now that is simply awesome :twothumbs
HotWire
Flashlight Enthusiast
- Joined
- Mar 9, 2011
- Messages
- 1,651
It's the fifth bogeyman that will "get you!" You need a minimum of 2,000 lumens to protect yourself from *that* bogeyman.
Then there are those who don't NEED massive Lumens but WANT massive Lumens. A Yugo will suffice to get from A to B but most people don't drive Yugos. They want something better. "Bright" starts at about 8,500 Lumens. 438,000 Lumens is nice! Especially when focused on a target at 5.7 miles.
skyfire
Flashlight Enthusiast
i wouldnt say most of those brands are crap, or cheap. i would say very decent, and quite expensive.
$60-70 for a flashlight to an average person is ridiculously expensive! but still, its usually a better value than spending $40 on a light from Wal- or homedepot.
i tend to agree with most of what you said...
my largest lights take a single 18650.
theres only a handful of brands i consider spending my money on, most are made in the USA brands.
lucky for me, i like my lights super simple, so surefires and malkoffs have ideal UIs for me.
and i prefer a more conservative drive level, with better runtimes, and thermal management.
but there are very few high quality brands, and they dont cover all the types of lights, interfaces, battery types, low low modes, super thrower, etc etc that people want.
many surefires for example were designed for a specific task. with the popularity of fenix proves that some folks want the multi-mode, common battery type lights that those other brands dont provide.
one of the most important things ive learned is going with brands that actually care about customer service, and backing its products.
alot of those "flavor of the month" brands seems to want your money 1 time only, and afterwards, dont what anything to do with you.
they dont seem to care if they get repeat customers.:shakehead
$60-70 for a flashlight to an average person is ridiculously expensive! but still, its usually a better value than spending $40 on a light from Wal- or homedepot.
i tend to agree with most of what you said...
my largest lights take a single 18650.
theres only a handful of brands i consider spending my money on, most are made in the USA brands.
lucky for me, i like my lights super simple, so surefires and malkoffs have ideal UIs for me.
and i prefer a more conservative drive level, with better runtimes, and thermal management.
but there are very few high quality brands, and they dont cover all the types of lights, interfaces, battery types, low low modes, super thrower, etc etc that people want.
many surefires for example were designed for a specific task. with the popularity of fenix proves that some folks want the multi-mode, common battery type lights that those other brands dont provide.
one of the most important things ive learned is going with brands that actually care about customer service, and backing its products.
alot of those "flavor of the month" brands seems to want your money 1 time only, and afterwards, dont what anything to do with you.
they dont seem to care if they get repeat customers.:shakehead
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biglights
Enlightened
- Joined
- May 13, 2012
- Messages
- 515
Where you buy it from matters more than what you bought from them
skyfire
Flashlight Enthusiast
thats important too, and i only buy through reputable dealers that support CPF. but not all my lights are bought new. i love CPFMP
some years ago i spent $70 on an Olight, which is no small sum. from a reputable dealer. after about 1 year the switch gave out. i contacted olight several times without any replies. i contacted my dealer, and other dealers if i can purchase a switch or tailcap. no luck. i tried replacing the switch myself, but could not find a switch that would fit well. i wasnt about to custom make or buy custom parts to make a different switch fit. in short, it became junk because i couldnt replace a $5 part.
if this happened to one of my surefires... i could call up surefire, speak to an actual person and probably get a replacement part for free and the problem would be fixed in a couple days.
or i could replace it myself because of the availability of parts on the market.
So what lights pass your 'non-cheapy' test, Brianna? You've plugged Surefire already. Anything else worthy?
HDS produces a fine light. I am sure you already know which lights stand above all others. You just want an argument from me that I am not going to give you.
fyrstormer
Banned
For you, I suggest a McGizmo titanium Clicky Pak, a Valiant Concepts titanium VME Head, and a Malkoff drop-in. That should be just about perfect for the usage you describe, and you could run it over with a truck and it will be fine.
Personally I like Jetbeam's control-ring lights. The one I carry stays on maximum output normally, and I turn it down when I need a dimmer light. Very intuitive, no multi-clicking to change modes.
fyrstormer
Banned
Does the 5th bogeyman disagree even though 1000+ lumens will keep him away too, or does he actually need more lumens to scare him off?
A bit of an extreme statement, sounds like right out of Surefire lawsuit book. Another surefire vs. the world thread likely leads to "US vs. China" again... :shakehead
Predicting everyone else needs with your own limited experience, perhaps a case of shrinking needs with expanding ego?
Bottom line is, if there wasn't needs, those lights wouldn't exist & Surefire wouldn't have started cheap Icon flashlight brand...
Those are some pretty inflammatory statements from a person who claims they aren't looking for a fight. :ironic:
I EDC a rotation of lights from McGizmo, Muyshondt, Mac and HDS. Hardly what would be considered "cheapies", so I think I have a good handle on what constitutes a good quality light. Yet, I think it's silly to say lights like Fenix are crap. There are tons of crappy lights out there, but I wouldn't say the ones you have listed are among them. The Fenixes I have had have served me very well over the years. Probably my most abused light ever is an E01 that has been on my keys for years. That thing won't die. Your statements seem to be a bit extreme and a little off base to me.
And 'lumens' doesn't require an apostrophe; it's a plural noun, not a statement of possession.
Here is a exellent vid that marduke made some years ago. A little more force than any wind can produce
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WvhJWE3_Oc
Some even went a little overkill. Dont think any light would have survived this, but the result of the torture still was supricing.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?194551-TK10-vs-9mm-(picture-heavy)
Lack of quality control might be a reason why you think all theese brands you mentioned are crap. They make lots and lots of lights and send it out on the marked without checking them too good. This means that some of us might get a crappy light if we are unlucky. And then we rush in here and complaint. (Normal behavior) Lets say we got a 3% chanse to get one of theese lemons. (just picking a number from the air). 3% of several thousand customers can generate a lot of complaints in a month This dosent mean that all the lights are lemons and will break as soon as the wind start blowing. The fact is, most of theese "crap" lights will withstand more abuse than you would throw at them. But when you read about the lemons all the time, (from the huge mass of customers) you might think : omg what crap....
Then we have the smaller companies like hds, mcgizmo, malkoff etc. They usually build way less units, and have exellent quality control, so they will find and fix their lemons long before sending them out to a customer. You rarely hear about lemons or d.o.a lights from companies like this. Yes they are solid buildt, but it's no 100% guarantee that the more fragile part of the light (electronics inside) can withstand any abuse it might see when used.
poop happens. Any light can fail, even hds. Shouldent take too long to find a post here on cpf where someone complain over any brand, even a hds. But it will be easy to find a "fenix fail post", there must be millions of fenix owners by now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WvhJWE3_Oc
Some even went a little overkill. Dont think any light would have survived this, but the result of the torture still was supricing.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?194551-TK10-vs-9mm-(picture-heavy)
Lack of quality control might be a reason why you think all theese brands you mentioned are crap. They make lots and lots of lights and send it out on the marked without checking them too good. This means that some of us might get a crappy light if we are unlucky. And then we rush in here and complaint. (Normal behavior) Lets say we got a 3% chanse to get one of theese lemons. (just picking a number from the air). 3% of several thousand customers can generate a lot of complaints in a month
This dosent mean that all the lights are lemons and will break as soon as the wind start blowing. The fact is, most of theese "crap" lights will withstand more abuse than you would throw at them. But when you read about the lemons all the time, (from the huge mass of customers) you might think : omg what crap.... Then we have the smaller companies like hds, mcgizmo, malkoff etc. They usually build way less units, and have exellent quality control, so they will find and fix their lemons long before sending them out to a customer. You rarely hear about lemons or d.o.a lights from companies like this. Yes they are solid buildt, but it's no 100% guarantee that the more fragile part of the light (electronics inside) can withstand any abuse it might see when used.
poop happens. Any light can fail, even hds. Shouldent take too long to find a post here on cpf where someone complain over any brand, even a hds. But it will be easy to find a "fenix fail post", there must be millions of fenix owners by now.
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