Preon P1 MKIII

[bobjane]

Try double dap(press) and hold without clicking. The light should be on momentary burst, while still holding complete the click. Does the level change or light flicker?

Same as before, mode progresses by 2. No flicker.

Tried pushing a pencil down the battery tube, no change. I have 2 units here and they behave the same so I don't think it's a fault.

Yep I've watched both of the P1 videos, which is why I thought I must be doing something wrong or missing the obvious.

 

[Got Lumens?]

Same as before, mode progresses by 2. No flicker.

Tried pushing a pencil down the battery tube, no change. I have 2 units here and they behave the same so I don't think it's a fault.

Yep I've watched both of the P1 videos, which is why I thought I must be doing something wrong or missing the obvious.

Does a freshly charged NiMh cell make a difference? Low batteries can cause some troubles. Alkalines will ruin the light by outgassing from the high current load.

I think I see what You are mentioning. Correct me if I'm wrong, You're saying that when You double press for Burst, it changes the remembered level it should come on in after Your done using burst the next activation of the light, and jumps one level or defaults to High mode step down level of Burst mode when the light is reactivated after You are done with Burst mode. You expect the light to come back on at it's memorized level prior to burst mode.

I just experimented. I noticed that if Burst mode is activated for more than 2 seconds from off, then let the light shut off more than 2 seconds that when that light is reactivated it scrolls to the next level from the previous remembered level. You actually can scroll through the levels by repeating the activation of burst mode.
Good observation Bob.
It does function normal when You activate Burst from any level latched/un-latched if burst is only used for less than 2 seconds, when You click to bump the light down it did come back to the Low, Medium, or High levels prior to Burst being activated. The Factory is looking into this.

 

[thesnark17]

I did some testing on mine and I concur that it does not reliably return to the previous mode. However, mine usually jumps only one level. I was unable to get it to return to moonlight mode following burst 9 times out of 10 attempts in my first test.

(Methodology: put light in moonlight mode. Turn off for >2 seconds. Double click for burst. Turn off for >2 seconds. Turn on, check level. Results from moonlight: moonlight 1, low 7, high 2. Possibly the high results were clicked too slow, but I attempted to do it exactly the same each time. Results from moonlight after watching Jason do it in a video and attempting to copy his timing exactly: moonlight 8, high 2. His timing was a bit slower than what I had been doing. Also I tried to use more of the switch travel, since I wasn't going so fast.)

I think it's the switch. I noticed that output will flicker sometimes, which apparently counts as a press, when I am attempting to get to burst. Basically I half-click once quickly, and it's in burst already (before I press the second time). Whether it flickers seems to be related to how far the switch travels. I'm guessing that somehow the extra click(s) are changing modes. Note: this never happened when I attempted to copy Jason exactly (although there were still issues, see results). I can get the light to skip levels using the flicker if I try (and I had noticed this once or twice in use, but thought it was just me). I don't see a flicker, but I try to press the same way, and voila - hop two modes with one half-click! Also, it's possible that a slow double click just takes the light up two levels. I find it very hard to distinguish between burst and high - if I double clicked from moonlight, the only way I would know that I got burst would be to turn it off and see which mode comes up on restart.

If you use most of the switch's travel when clicking, these sorts of things shouldn't happen to you. But I'm used to half-clicking (from the old Quark interface).

Conclusion/TLDR: it's pretty easy to fool the light's firmware using edge cases of the switch. Possibly it an "anti-shock" type adjustment so that connect/disconnect cycles above a certain speed don't count would fix this? Or a different switch. If the low battery strobe is repeatable on the new light (which I haven't tested), this should probably be implemented anyway.

 

[bobjane]

Same behavior with fully charged battery.

Mine does this with Burst <2 seconds and >2 seconds.

I agree with thesnark17 in that it's not consistent. Most often mine will progress 2 levels after burst, sometimes progress 1, very rarely it comes back on in the last remembered mode as it should. Before I thought these irregularities were due to misclicks.

 

[mbp1]

I just purchased another of these a week ago, noticed this behavior and can confirm mine also does not work properly.

I do not like mode memory but made an exception for this onebecause of the hybrid memory and the fact that burst is not memorized. However,the light does not return to low when moving out of burst, the next mode isalways be medium. Off time does not seem to affect this. My most used modes arelow and burst, so if the light actually worked as advertised it would be great,but now I have to deal with never being sure that my light will actually turnon in low when I want it to. Another disappointment.

 

[Got Lumens?]

I've noticed that the frequency of the firmware's clicking times may need to be tweaked.
I can only duplicate this by using double tap to get into burst mode for more than 2 seconds(P1). All other mode and
level changes work as they should. I suspect one unproven aspect of this a latching delay of the switch is fooling the
firmware when the user double taps, but this can also be duplicated using head twisting(pressing). ???

A step down in level can happen when the driver senses lower battery voltage. For instance If I have High
selected(Config4), and engage Burst mode, when clicked(Pressed) to bump the light back down to it's memorized
level(high in this scenario) the driver can sense a low battery condition and may bump the level down to Medium, or
mostly it resets back to level 1 of the configuration selected.

I think the second tap is fooling the driver to reset to the first level like when the light is on. However since head twisting
(pressing) can duplicate the trouble, it is unlikely the switch is the major cause of the trouble. I also tried this by changing
config 4 to config 5 and the first setting is high. Sometimes I get an advancement in level(s) or mostly I got a reset back
to high mode. The inconsistency points to more than one variable other than the switch or simply may just be firmware
timing settings.

I will add that the P2 uses higher battery voltage and the light presents itself slightly different. The <2 seconds on the P1
is reduced to <0.5 seconds for memory retention. On the P2 activating burst from Off advances the memorized level by one.
2Tap Burst, Off, High, Off, 2Tap Burst, Off, Med, Off, 2tap Burst, Off, Low . . .


So far I am liking these new Preon MKIII lights!
The inconvenience of Burst interfering with mode memory is not a big problem for my uses. Over the years I have gotten into
a good habit of covering the bezel to check what level a light is on, before ruining my night vision or worse accidentally shining
the light into someone's eyes. This works for me 100% of the time using any light or UI. The most liked is the choice of emitter
binning, nice and white. I like it better than the Legacy and MKII's. Based on these recent releases, I am confident color and tint
of LED choices are going to be top notch moving forward.

 

[bobjane]

I have to say that this does impact my usage.

I don't want the light coming on at a random level after using Burst.

Would very much like this to be fixed because otherwise the light is fantastic.

 

[Got Lumens?]

I have to say that this does impact my usage.

I don't want the light coming on at a random level after using Burst.

Would very much like this to be fixed because otherwise the light is fantastic.

I hear that . I do have a work around for You. Turn your light on low. Double click for burst(I used momentary finger pressure), after your done using burst, give the light one tap, it should come back to low without changing. You have to bump down from burst to the level that's saved.

Let us know.
I also tried this with the P2, bumping down from Burst before turning the light off seems to avoid unwanted level changes.

 

[defloyd77]

I hear that . I do have a work around for You. Turn your light on low. Double click for burst(I used momentary finger pressure), after your done using burst, give the light one tap, it should come back to low without changing. You have to bump down from burst to the level that's saved.

Let us know.
I also tried this with the P2, bumping down from Burst before turning the light off seems to avoid unwanted level changes.

Tried that with mine, nope, it goes to medium. In all my time fidgeting with mine, it makes no difference if you double momentary or momentary then click for burst, the end result is always the same. If the lights were mistaking the clicks as 2 cycles it wouldn't stay in burst in lmh mode, it would go low, burst, high.

The problem I think is the hybrid memory behavior and the fact that when you double tap, the light considers the first tap as a basic mode change and the second tap doesn't somehow override that. In mode 6 if I slowly go L,M,H and then double tap to burst, it comes back in strobe.

 

[Got Lumens?]

Tried that with mine, nope, it goes to medium. In all my time fidgeting with mine, it makes no difference if you double momentary or momentary then click for burst, the end result is always the same. If the lights were mistaking the clicks as 2 cycles it wouldn't stay in burst in lmh mode, it would go low, burst, high.

The problem I think is the hybrid memory behavior and the fact that when you double tap, the light considers the first tap as a basic mode change and the second tap doesn't somehow override that. In mode 6 if I slowly go L,M,H and then double tap to burst, it comes back in strobe.

I noticed that Burst needs to be on for more than two seconds for this to work. Activating Burst momentarily does bump the level or sometimes it resets to level one of the configuration.

I'm thinking when Burst is activated it is a separate configuration and the lights set configuration does not get recalled until Burst has had time to set itself in the On time.

 

[bobjane]

I hear that . I do have a work around for You. Turn your light on low. Double click for burst(I used momentary finger pressure), after your done using burst, give the light one tap, it should come back to low without changing. You have to bump down from burst to the level that's saved.

Let us know.
I also tried this with the P2, bumping down from Burst before turning the light off seems to avoid unwanted level changes.

Light in Low.
Click to Off.
Press + click to Burst.
Leave on Burst for more than 2 seconds.
Click + press (this is what you meant by light tap?).
Light is Off.
Click turns on to Medium as per defloyd77.

So it doesn't work as intended regardless of whether Burst is on for more or less than 2 seconds.

 

[Got Lumens?]

Light in Low.
Click to Off.
Click + press to Burst.
Leave on Burst for more than 2 seconds.
Click + press (this is what you meant by light tap?).
Light is Off.
Click turns on to Medium as per defloyd77.

So it doesn't work as intended regardless of whether Burst is on for more or less than 2 seconds.

Yes.
Try using just momentary without clicking and latching the switch. That is how I first discovered it.

The timing of the clicking off from Burst followed by a quick momentary tap seems to be time sensitive.
If the delay from turning off from Burst, followed by a light tap to bring back the memorized level is too long it advances the level.
Also if the momentary tap is too light it's possible for the switch to make partial contact/break/and re-make partial contact.
I will try and get a Video up tonight to demonstrate.

All four lights I have tested all are acting the same. :shrug:
GL

 

[Got Lumens?]

VERY interesting !

Tell me --

Can these be safely used with
Energizer Lithium L92 cells ? ? ?

Thank you.

Sorry for the late reply. Yes You can. Energizer, Olight, or other Lithium Primary L92 cells
Please, Never use Alkalines the gases emitted from the high current draw can ruin your flashlight and is not covered.

 

[defloyd77]

I noticed that Burst needs to be on for more than two seconds for this to work. Activating Burst momentarily does bump the level or sometimes it resets to level one of the configuration.

I'm thinking when Burst is activated it is a separate configuration and the lights set configuration does not get recalled until Burst has had time to set itself in the On time.

It behaves the same way if you go low, med and turn it off right away, it'll come back on in low, not medium. Same if you go low, med, high and turn off right away. Even when you have med or high saved in the memory mode, revert back to low and turn it back off right away, it will come back in the aforementioned saved mode, not low.

 

[Got Lumens?]

It behaves the same way if you go low, med and turn it off right away, it'll come back on in low, not medium. Same if you go low, med, high and turn off right away. Even when you have med or high saved in the memory mode, revert back to low and turn it back off right away, it will come back in the aforementioned saved mode, not low.

The On Time memory is 0.5 seconds. The medium level was not on long enough to memorize the level. If the light is turned back On before 0.5 seconds has passed it will not memorize the level. This is how it is designed intended to work. In my video I show how it does skip if the timing is off. Are You able to have a Loved One or friend try and duplicate your findings?

Does this just work for me??? Anyone else able to bump down from Burst with level retention?
GL

 

[jylong_away]

The On Time memory is 0.5 seconds. The medium level was not on long enough to memorize the level. If the light is turned back On before 0.5 seconds has passed it will not memorize the level. This is how it is designed intended to work. In my video I show how it does skip if the timing is off. Are You able to have a Loved One or friend try and duplicate your findings?

Does this just work for me??? Anyone else able to bump down from Burst with level retention?
GL

I think the issue of 'returning to Medium' from Burst mode are due to the light interpreting the second press(to enter Burst Mode) both as 'Burst Mode On' as well as 'Activate Next Mode in the Config. Leaving the light on in Burst for more than the required time then saves the 'next' mode to memory. In the case of starting with 'L', the 'next' mode becomes L. If you have M already saved into memory, the 'next' mode becomes 'L' (due to hybrid memory).

Burst mode issues aside, I did also come to the conclusion that the light needed to be 'on' in any particular mode for an amount of time before it 'memorized' that mode. I'm not sure that I fully agree that this was the intended design for a couple of reasons:

1) There's no specific mention of this in the documentation
2) The Pre-production P1's didn't behave this way. Any amount of time in a particular 'mode' (even a brief flicker) was enough to save that mode.

Granted, the driver for the production models are indeed different, so who knows what was intended in the production models? I don't have a specific issue with it at the moment, but before I figured out the ins-and-outs of it, it seemed like the light programming was behaving weird.

I think I might be keeping both my pre-production P1 heads as-is, rather than returning them for upgrade to the new driver, as I imagine this is a driver/board issue?

 

[Got Lumens?]

Burst mode issues aside, I did also come to the conclusion that the light needed to be 'on' in any particular mode for an amount of time before it 'memorized' that mode. I'm not sure that I fully agree that this was the intended design for a couple of reasons:

1) There's no specific mention of this in the documentation
2) The Pre-production P1's didn't behave this way. Any amount of time in a particular 'mode' (even a brief flicker) was enough to save that mode.

Jason has talked about these specific design features across multiple social media platforms over the past 11 months, not just here on CPF. You are free to disagree. Here's the product page from the website. While no mention of the 0.5 second On time, it is now there to help prevent accidental memorized mode advancement setting. The pre-production lights did not have this.

I suggest Trying some tests on Configuration 5, instead of 4. This helped me distinguish when the light is advancing a level or resetting back to the first level within that configuration group.

---

NEW USER INTERFACE (UI):

All Preons feature a new interface with six selectable configuration modes so you can customize your Preon specifically to your needs. Other features include the following:

• Output in programming mode = 15% (medium)
• Bump Protection = <60ms off time = no mode change
• Enter configuration menu = 10 cycles within 3 seconds.
• Mode change interval = .5 seconds
• Memory set (off) time = .5 seconds
• Memory function = revert to mode 1
• Burst Mode Memory = no memory
• Burst mode behavior = 30 seconds burst (100% output), ramp to high mode (60%) over next 30 seconds.

 

[jylong_away]

Jason has talked about these specific design features across multiple social media platforms over the past 11 months, not just here on CPF. You are free to disagree. Here's the product page from the website. While no mention of the 0.5 second On time, it is now there to help prevent accidental memorized mode advancement setting. The pre-production lights did not have this.

I suggest Trying some tests on Configuration 5, instead of 4. This helped me distinguish when the light is advancing a level or resetting back to the first level within that configuration group.

---

NEW USER INTERFACE (UI):

All Preons feature a new interface with six selectable configuration modes so you can customize your Preon specifically to your needs. Other features include the following:

• Output in programming mode = 15% (medium)
• Bump Protection = <60ms off time = no mode change
• Enter configuration menu = 10 cycles within 3 seconds.
• Mode change interval = .5 seconds
• Memory set (off) time = .5 seconds
• Memory function = revert to mode 1
• Burst Mode Memory = no memory
• Burst mode behavior = 30 seconds burst (100% output), ramp to high mode (60%) over next 30 seconds.

I must admit, I missed any reference to the 'on time' required to save the modes in Jason's previous posts. I really have only been following the Preon progress on CPF, USN, and FB. Could you point me in the direction of the discussion you mentioned?

The bit in the product info still only mentions the Off time required to save modes though, which is quite different from On time.

Isn't Config 5 sort've just rhe opposite of Config 4? (LMH vs HML). Do you use it because it helps to differentiate H from Burst in the sequence?

 

[archer6817j]

All of the new drivers use both .5 second on time or off time to save the mode. There is a bug in the UI that had been resolved, but somehow it found it's way back in when we revised the driver to the newest version.

The behavior I'm observing under normal use (ie not just playing around is that the light reverts to low from medium and high, and goes up to medium if you are already in low.

Alkaline batteries cannot sustain the high current draw required as the voltage says horribly under load, even on fresh batteries. This triggers the low voltage step down to medium. Preons have a step down behavior for low battery, instead of a blink.

 

[Tachead]

Wow, what a read.

Might I suggest more thorough testing before releasing a product to the public Jason. I know you can't always catch everything but, in the competitive marketplace we live in these kinds of issues have to be minimized for a company to excel. It may cost more and take longer to get products to the market but, in the end people just aren't going to repeat buy if they have experiences like some are having in this thread.

Hopefully things will smooth out in the log run and I wish you the best👍.