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oldgrandpajack said:
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Josey said:
I recently read a research article on ethanol, that I can't find now, of course; but the thrust was that if you take the total costs of ethanol (fossil fuels needed to run the tractors and fertilize the fields and the pesticides dumped on the crops, etc.) it does nothing to help our environment or our dependence on foreign oil. In fact, it's a net loss and makes our economy less efficient. The reason ethanol enjoys such support is because it benefits some farm states and their big-ag corporations.
The selling points (better for the environment, displaces foreign oil) are just PR talking points necessary to keep the program popular with the public.
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ADM is the largest US producer of ethanol. ADM lobbied Congress, to pass a law requiring it's use. ADM is the biggest winner, when it comes to the use of ethanol in gas.
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Yea, I've read a University of Iowa (or was it Illinois?) study that pretty much stated the same thing - relating to ethanol produced from CORN. Study concluded it takes (best case scenario) at least 2 energy units of fossil fuel to produce 3 energy units of ethanol from corn (pretty pathetic, IMO).
But ethanol is produceable from plant materials (celluose, starches) that are abundant in certain quick-growing, no-maintenance poplar-type trees - with no net loss of energy (actually a small gain) in the production process, alone. Far better source than corn.
A big portion of the energy lost in ethanol's production is the lengthy heating needed for fermentation - typically supplied by burning natural gas. The study proposed burning the poplar tree remains instead (once the celluose/starches are extracted) to do the heating, with energy left over to generate electricity - piped to the grid.
ADM indeed appears to have their hand in the cookie jar /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif regarding the poor choice of corn as an ethanol source.
Roth - 10% ethanol gasoline blend will give slightly less power and fuel mileage (a few percent), as ethanol has considerably less energy, per gallon, than gasoline. Otherwise, it is considered safe in about any later model auto (within 10-15 years old, maybe? Somebody know?).
Now, methanol is the nasty one - very corrosive and reactive with rubbers/polymers/living tissue. Poisonous! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/faint.gif I think I recall some oil companies supplying a limited amount of methanol blends at the pump (?) years ago - until a wave of fuel system problems cropped up.