It's about time...

turbodog

Flashaholic
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
6,425
Location
central time

They're posturing and after money.

On paper there are plenty of safeguards. In reality of a hectic movie set, the gun expert prevails when all these items fail. There never should have been live rounds loaded.

Ask yourself, in your job there's the 'published' procedure then the 'real world' one. In scenario #2 who holds more blame the actor, who is be definition an actor, or a trained/certified firearms wrangler.

If this prosecution stands then the atty general should prosecute each and every workplace accident where some random, untrained, uncertified person could have _maybe_ prevented a tragedy instead of the professional whose sole job was to prevent it.
 

jamesraykenney

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Mar 1, 2004
Messages
101
Location
Beaumont, TX USA
I kinda agree with this. He was given a firearm, was told it was empty and he went with that. But the other half of me says as a gun owner I'm going to check for myself. He at least IMO is somewhat responsible.
I have heard from someone that works in the business, that you can get in trouble for even checking to see if the gun is unloaded because you are ONLY allowed to do things with the gun that you are TOLD to do with it... That is considered to be doing something that is 'not your job' and is considered a safety risk...
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
10,097
Location
Pacific N.W.
I have heard from someone that works in the business, that you can get in trouble for even checking to see if the gun is unloaded because you are ONLY allowed to do things with the gun that you are TOLD to do with it... That is considered to be doing something that is 'not your job' and is considered a safety risk...

Alec Baldwin was the producer. AKA, The BOSS. The producer is ultimately responsible for the safety of everyone involved in the project, whether directly or by the professionals he hires.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
10,097
Location
Pacific N.W.
They were shooting cans with live rounds just prior to that incident, AB would not get in troubles for looking at the front of cylinder.
If memory serves me, they use rounds with holes in the cartridge's casing. Otherwise, they're identical in appearance so as to L@@K authentic to the film's audience. Therefore, checking the cylinder would not have been a sufficient safety check.
 

alpg88

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
5,228
I heard there was not supposed to be anything loaded into the gun, the cylinder was supposed to be empty, he was not filming at the time, so he would not miss it, assuming of course the reporting was accurate'

I'm not even sure if such round with a hole would be useful, there is no smoke, no recoil, that does not look real. Wasn't this movie about times when smokeless powder did not exist? the gun had to have some smoke come out, or it would look too fake,
 
Last edited:

M@elstrom

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
2,180
Location
Sunraysia, Australia
Ask yourself, do you perform a safety inspection every time you rent a car, checking oil, trans fluid, brake fluid, brake pad thickness, rotor thickness, and so on?

Then you would be guilty also by your standards and logic for a brake/equipment failure resulting in a death/injury.

It is recommended you check the rental vehicle prior to leaving the lot, additionally we are required to perform safety checks on all work vehicles prior to departure, no different from Pilots conducting safety inspections pre-flight... higher standards save lives.

Firearms need to be held to a higher standard.
 

kaichu dento

Flashaholic
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
6,554
Location
現在の世界
Firearms need to be held to a higher standard.
They already are, except by people who think the rules don't apply to them.

If someone hands me a revolver and says it's unloaded, I open the cylinder before closing it again. Even though it is empty, it still does not get pointed at people and if I were in a play where I had to do that, I'd check it again, and later again, and again as long as I was carrying it.

It's the people who take on the responsibility of handling a firearm that need to be held to a higher standard.
 

Monocrom

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
19,621
Location
NYC
If memory serves me, they use rounds with holes in the cartridge's casing. Otherwise, they're identical in appearance so as to L@@K authentic to the film's audience. Therefore, checking the cylinder would not have been a sufficient safety check.
That's not going to work. You can't put additional holes into a casing. The gun powder once ignited would escape out the front, and the new hole. Very dangerous.
 

knucklegary

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Feb 11, 2017
Messages
4,139
Location
NorCal, Central Coast

Monocrom

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
19,621
Location
NYC
That's how the blanks work in some of our training gear. It does work and blanks are dangerous.
Never said they're not dangerous. An extra hole is an unneeded risk.
It's just safer to put in a live primer, powder charge, and then top the opening with a mesh piece of paper (same type use for old-fashioned tobacco pipes) with a thin wax seal. There's your far more realistic blank, and you didn't have to alter the casing itself.
 

KITROBASKIN

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Mar 28, 2013
Messages
5,351
Location
New Mexico, USA
I have heard from someone that works in the business, that you can get in trouble for even checking to see if the gun is unloaded because you are ONLY allowed to do things with the gun that you are TOLD to do with it... That is considered to be doing something that is 'not your job' and is considered a safety risk...
Get in trouble? What silliness. A functioning firearm is to be checked essentially every time it is picked up, and still considered loaded.

That actor is like so many people who are not interested in appropriate safety. Self important people like that are used to others doing the 'menial' work. Now he has blood on his hands and significant hit to his money supply.

Guessing the apparently sloppy armorer is trying to deflect blame, trying to draw the actor back into the mix.
 

alpg88

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
5,228
It is it is most likely lawyers, AB has much more money than that armorer. they want their cut, they will never let it go until they get everything they possibly can.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
10,097
Location
Pacific N.W.
Never said they're not dangerous. An extra hole is an unneeded risk.
It's just safer to put in a live primer, powder charge, and then top the opening with a mesh piece of paper (same type use for old-fashioned tobacco pipes) with a thin wax seal. There's your far more realistic blank, and you didn't have to alter the casing itself.

My limited knowledge is that the rounds in question are void of gunpowder. They have a bullet/projectile in the case so that when the camera angle shows the front of the cylinder the movie viewer sees what appears to be a fully loaded revolver. The hole in the casing is only to identify the round for what it is.
 

Monocrom

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
19,621
Location
NYC
My limited knowledge is that the rounds in question are void of gunpowder. They have a bullet/projectile in the case so that when the camera angle shows the front of the cylinder the movie viewer sees what appears to be a fully loaded revolver. The hole in the casing is only to identify the round for what it is.
In that case, no need for the hole. What you're describing is a Pewter load. Dented primer, no gun-powder, bullet properly seated. Looks just like a live round, until you check the bottom of it and see the dented primer. Identifies it as an inert Pewter load.
 
Joined
Mar 12, 2010
Messages
10,097
Location
Pacific N.W.
In that case, no need for the hole. What you're describing is a Pewter load. Dented primer, no gun-powder, bullet properly seated. Looks just like a live round, until you check the bottom of it and see the dented primer. Identifies it as an inert Pewter load.
I didn't drill the holes in the casings. OK? I'm just relaying something I remember reading shortly after the shooting. I'm not attempting to win an argument.

An amended search warrant document released later by the sheriff's office suggested the remaining "ammunition" in the gun was just dummy rounds. The document said the assistant director and the armorer opened the gun's cylinder after the shooting and found all of the "bullets" had a telltale hole drilled in the side, which marks the dummies as inert. One of the casings did not have that hole—and it also didn't have a "cap," or slug. That's likely the real one amid the fakes that killed Hutchins.


I'll leave it at that.
 
Last edited:

Monocrom

Flashaholic
Joined
Aug 27, 2006
Messages
19,621
Location
NYC
I didn't drill the holes in the casings. OK? I'm just relaying something I remember reading shortly after the shooting. I'm not attempting to win an argument. I'll leave it at that.
Not arguing with you. Just a bit of clarification. Seriously though, lately you seem to get incredibly upset or angry at the blink of an eye. It's been going on for awhile too. I noticed. Decided to not say anything. Honestly though, whatever it is, I hope you're okay. I hope it's a temporary thing.
 

alpg88

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Messages
5,228
One of the casings did not have that hole—and it also didn't have a "cap," or slug. That's likely the real one amid the fakes that killed Hutchins.
That is pretty interesting, why would someone leave 1 live round and load the rest with dummy, or take 1 dummy out and load 1 live? it somewhat seems like it was no accident. Looks like a bad prank, a Russian roulette by an unsuspecting person.
 
Top