123's: rechargable vs primaries

cruisemissile

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I have used the "search" function and haven't seen what I need to know.

question: which is better for runtime and performance (in general) rechargeable 123's or regular 123's?
again, i'm sure it varies by light. plus I'm also finding that some lights cant' even take rechargeables because of specs or whatever.

just say for instance I am using a Surefire E2DL, I've only run 123's in it.
I've stayed away from rechargeables in general because they eventually wear out- this is only from my experience YEARS ago with AA's in a walkman.
I'm sure things have changed.
should i spring the $ for rechargeables?? (if I want decent horsepower?)
 
If my memory serves, you will have more runtime from a primary than the rechargable. However you have to dispose of the primary when it is exhausted. The rechargable just need to be put in a charger and plugged into the wall for a while.

Also be careful. Some lights will go :poof: with the 3.7v rechargables. You may need to do some research here to determine if the E2DL will take RCR123's at 3.7v

All rechargable eventually stop working correctly, but based on the cost of how many recharges you get from them, they more than justify the price. Again if they work for the application you want to use them for.
 
It's not a simple answer since you asked for runtime and performance.

For performance, I would think rechargable (if the light's circuitry can handle the extra voltage).

For runtime, I would say primary.
The good primary 123 cells have around 1550 mAh capacity whereas good rechargable 123 cells are labeled at 750 mAh but are really around 600 mAh capacity.

If you have a hungry light, feeding it primaries all the time is going to be hard on the wallet.

I'm in a similar situation. 3 of the 6 CR123 lights I have definitely cannot handle the voltage of rechargeable 123s.
I have another light that I am unable to get any info about the driver to determine if I could use rechargebale 123s in it :(
 
Did you look at mdocod's thread in the stickies above? (MD's Rechargeable Compatibility Chart) There is much useful information there.

In general there are several types of rechargeable 123 and none of them is an exact replacement for a primary CR123A, but some are closer than others.

All rechargeable options have a much shorter run time than a primary.

Because of the different types of rechargeable 123 in existence they need to be matched with the right charger. In general it is best to buy batteries and charger as a set.

Most of the time rechargeable 123's are not good replacements for primaries in incan lights. Incan lights are often designed right on the edge of the performance curve of primary CR123 cells and the electrical differences of a rechargeable, however small, may blow the bulb or shorten its life. However, replacement light assemblies can sometimes be purchased that are matched to a rechargeable battery solution. This is the best option for incan lights.

Compatibility is better with LED lights like the E2DL, but you still need to be careful. When in doubt, look for specific advice from the likes of mdocod.

Here is a post asking the same question you asked, answered by mdocod:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?p=2718013#post2718013

(this was found with a quick Google search)
 
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There have been so many variations of the surefire LED heads, different LED generations and drivers and such, and I honestly haven't been able to keep up or take the time to be 100% confident in the exact compatibility of the SF lineup of LED lights with various rechargeable cells. To be safe, I generally suggest various "3.0V" variants of the RCR123, or a single long cell like a 17670 or 14670...

My recommendation is almost always as follows in these circumstances:

Buy or build up (from available parts) a 1x18650 powered LED light to serve as your rechargeable workhorse go-to light, and use those lights that are best suited to primary cells as backup and emergency lights. There are dozens of options available now in this category. A single quality protected 18650 is the only way to get a rechargeable setup that competes with 2xCR123s in the runtime/performance/size department.
 
In my experience with my Surefire L4 and E2DL lights, rechargeables have about 2/3 of the runtime of Surefire or Duracell 123 primaries. My runtime guestimate on the E2DL may be a little off, as I've only had it since Christmas, but I'm pretty certain that it runs for about 35-40 minutes on a pair of AW 3.7v RCR123s. I don't know if a 33% reduction in runtime is a deal breaker for you; but honestly, when you have people willing to change primaries every 20 minutes with incandescent lamps like the Surefire P61 and P91, then getting 30 to 40 low-cost minutes between rechargeables in an LED light is probably acceptable to many.

As far as "horsepower" goes, rechargeables are always the winner over primaries. This is a known fact backed up by competent opinions and discharge graphs everywhere. The E2DL and L4 both run at full brightness on rechargeables for the quoted runtimes.

Now, to address your concern about the longevity and cost effectiveness of Li-Ions. I have been running my Surefire L4 on Pila 168 Li-Ions that I purchased over 4 years ago. I have two 168s that I rotate in succession, and they each have over 200 full discharge cycles on them; I don't recharge them until the L4 kicks out of regulation. I get about 40 minutes of runtime per charge on one Pila 168 versus 60 minutes on a set of 2 primaries. With my conservative estimate of 200 recharge cycles on each Pila, I have run the L4 for about 16000 minutes. That's 534 Surefire 123 primaries, which at $1.75 apiece is $935.00. I spent $95.00 on the Pila 168s and a Pila Charger. Some people here have said that Pilas are a more premium battery than the AW cells that are now so widely used, and as such, may hold up longer. However, these claims were comparing the AWs of a couple of years ago, and I don't know that the difference in quality still applies. Even if it does, you can get AW cells for ½ the cost of Pilas, which should more than make up for any shorter service life.

To answer your question about rechargeable compatibility with your E2DL; there are a lot of people on CPF saying don't use 3.7v RCR123s with it, but only one so far backing up that statement with an actual over-voltage occurrence. When I got my E2DL for Christmas, the first thing I tried was to run it on one of the Pila 168s, which is the equivalent voltage-wise of running on one 3.7v RCR123. It does work, and will have a long runtime, but is much dimmer than running on 2 primaries due to the E2DL having a different regulation circuit than some other Surefire lights like my older L4. So I then looked on CPF to see what other people were using. I didn't find much at all about using rechargeables in the E2DL, but there were 5 or 6 people saying they were using AW 3.7v RCR123s without issue; so I ordered some from Lighthound. My brother and I both received E2DLs for Christmas, so I have been using the 3.7v RCRs in both lights thru approximately 4 full discharge cycles without issue. However, about a month ago, a post popped up from username "The Sun" where he is saying he had a problem out of one of the several E2DLs he owns while using 3.7v RCRs. So he's 1 for 3 with problems, I'm 0 for 2, and the other posts are 0 for 5, giving us a a failure rate of 1 out of 10 lights. Possibly his experience was a fluke. I'm still using mine with the 3.7v 123s, but if another person posts an issue with them, I'll be switching to the 3.0v LiFePo4s or regulated 3.0v Li-Ions. There are some further capacity and quality trade-offs with those 2 options, however, and that's what kept me from going with either of them in the first place.

It would be much appreciated if anyone who has had an actual problem using 3.7v RCR123s in a Surefire E2DL would let us know about it.
 
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This might be alittle off topic but :whistle:

Newbie/Dumb question:

Is it safe to leave a CR123 in a flashlight(like the LF3XT) while not using it (for a couple days or maybe months)? :confused:
 
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Is it safe to leave a CR123 in a flashlight(like the LF3XT) while not using it (for a couple days or maybe months)?
I have been leaving CR123 primaries inside my Surefire LED lights in the car for years under all kinds of conditions varying from 100 degree Summers to 15 degree Winters, and have not had one leak or explode or do anything out of character so far. If your question was more about the possibility of the battery being depleted over time by the electronic user interface of the LF3XT, I can offer no insight there. I did notice when looking up info on that light that its specs practically beg for rechargeable 123s. About the best price you're going to find for CR123s is $23 a dozen tax included at your local cop supply warehouse, and probably a hair more on-line when you factor in shipping. For under $33 shipping included, you can get 2 of the best quality RCR123 batteries available, along with a very respectable charger from Lighthound. Use coupon code CPF at checkout to save 2%.

AW 3.7v RCR123s http://www.lighthound.com/AW-RCR123a-Protected-750-mAh-Battery_p_114.html

Ultrafire RCR123 charger http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire-36-volt-or-3-volt-RCR123-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_2270.html
 
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I have been leaving CR123 primaries inside my Surefire LED lights in the car for years under all kinds of conditions varying from 100 degree Summers to 15 degree Winters, and have not had one leak or explode or do anything out of character so far. If your question was more about the possibility of the battery being depleted over time by the electronic user interface of the LF3XT, I can offer no insight there. I did notice when looking up info on that light that its specs practically beg for rechargeable 123s. About the best price you're going to find for CR123s is $23 a dozen tax included at your local cop supply warehouse, and probably a hair more on-line when you factor in shipping. For under $33 shipping included, you can get 2 of the best quality RCR123 batteries available, along with a very respectable charger from Lighthound. Use coupon code CPF at checkout to save 2%.

AW 3.7v RCR123s http://www.lighthound.com/AW-RCR123a-Protected-750-mAh-Battery_p_114.html

Ultrafire RCR123 charger http://www.lighthound.com/Ultrafire-36-volt-or-3-volt-RCR123-Lithium-Battery-Charger_p_2270.html



Thank you, Howecollc.

I always wondered about RCR123's and chargers :thinking:
 
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