Are the Fenix-Store lumen figures accurate ??

Pierat

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P1 runs even brighter with rechargable's, dunno about regular cells though
 

Illum

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carrot said:
The lumen figures are taken from the numbers provided by Fenix.

being the fenix advocate are we....carrot:grin2:

as much was I feel its true, but the numbers have a high probability of being modified for advertisement usage, however, because I dont have the proper equipment to test these numbers, I can neither agree or disagree on the value's authenticity....

I buy their light because the advocate above comvinced me...:grin2:
personally I've been eyeing fenixes product for a while now....:)
 

selfbuilt

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I think the L0P might be a bit of an anomaly, but the other models look reasonably good to me.

I don't have an integrating sphere, but I do detailed beamplots on all my lights. By measuring "area under the curve" of light intensity taken at 0.5 degree increments over a 120 degree range or so, I find I get a pretty good estimate of *relative* total output that matches what others report.

What I can say is my various E1, L2Ts, P1s, and Civictor V1s are all proportionally consistent with each other, based on the advertised lumen ratings (i.e. compared to E1, the V1 is about 2.8x brighter overall, and the L2T and P1 are about 4.5x brighter, etc, etc.).

My single L0P is the sole lone outlier - by calibrating to my other Fenix lights, I'd estimate that output is closer to 20 lumens (i.e. it's about 1.7x brighter than the E1 overall).

Of course, most people tend to believe manufacturer's numbers are inflated. But at least Fenix seems reasonably consistent (except for the L0P).
 

amanichen

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Perfectionist said:
Yup, it was the L0P figures that made me suspicious ..... :)
The source of the tests was not an impartial one. I wouldn't put much weight into the results for that reason.
 

Flying Turtle

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I think in this case Mr. Gransee presented the data accurately, as it was presented to him by a reputable testing service.

Geoff
 

amanichen

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Flying Turtle said:
I think in this case Mr. Gransee presented the data accurately, as it was presented to him by a reputable testing service.

Geoff
From the page:

These tests were paid for by CIS Inc. CIS is affiliated with the Arc Flashlight brand.

Reputable does not equal impartial. I'm not saying the numbers are falsified, merely that it's best to have an impartial party do the testing if you want to present your data as being derived from a scientific method, that's all.

I know it sounds like a matter of semantics, but using a calibrated integrating sphere and then using a non-impartial party to run the tests is like running a 400m race, and stopping at 399 meters and saying "good enough." Most people won't care, but you technically never completed the race.
 

IsaacHayes

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Yes the numbers at the store are taken off the fenix website.

Think of the numbers as relative, not absolute. So use them to compare the various fenix models to get an idea of how the compare.

The lumen figures are mainly from the luxeon data sheets, like R bin up to X lumens. Now the lights may not drive them at 350ma or whatever drive level, so the lumens may be lower in real life if you factor in drive current, reflector/lens loss, binning ranges, etc.

The E0 5 lumens is pretty accurate it sounds like though, but it could be 1 lumen or so off. We already have a good idea of how many lumens the nichia CS puts out, and surely it's getting at least 20ma, where as the luxeon single AA lights aren't running at full 350ma I imagine.

The 2 cell models likely are closer or at/above 350ma because they have more input voltage and the driver has more to work with.

If you look at other lights like say the QIII with a lux3 and think wow, lux 3 it's gotta be at least S bin, 60 or so lumens, then fire up a L1P and the L1P with 1w is just as bright, what does that tell you? QIII isn't driven at lux3 levels even though it has a lux3, so don't expect full lux3 performance figure from the lumileds data sheet! So don't think the fenix lights won't be that bright either.
 
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thelightdude

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If the lumen numbers posted on the Fenix store are reprinted from the Fenix website, don't get mad at the Fenix store if they are not accurate.

I have been very happy with the advertised vs. acutal output of the 4 Fenix lights I have purchased.

I would say the EO I just received, very much complies with the listed output.
 

Lebkuecher

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QUOTE amanichen

The source of the tests was not an impartial one. I wouldn't put much weight into the results for that reason.


I was there and my L0P was one that was tested. Anyone doubting the results are more then welcome to pay LSI again to retest the light. I would be careful before challenging someones creditability without any facts.


www.lightingsciences.com

The L0P being tested

IMG_0720.jpg


IMG_0718.jpg


(Below) The guy from LSI setting up the testing equipment, each time a light is tested the equipment has to be recalibrated to account for the body of the flashlight. Different size bodies absorb different amounts of light so to be accurate you have to put the light into the sphere and recalibrate (So I was told)


IMG_0708.jpg


IMG_0717.jpg
 

CM

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amanichen said:
From the page:



Reputable does not equal impartial. I'm not saying the numbers are falsified, merely that it's best to have an impartial party do the testing if you want to present your data as being derived from a scientific method, that's all.

I know it sounds like a matter of semantics, but using a calibrated integrating sphere and then using a non-impartial party to run the tests is like running a 400m race, and stopping at 399 meters and saying "good enough." Most people won't care, but you technically never completed the race.

While it would seem like this was an impartial test to you, there was great care in making sure there were others besides Arc to witness the test. I was there, Lebkuecher was there, shakiesam was there to attest to the legitimacy of the characterization. I can assure you it was all business and no monkey business.

As far as lumen figures from the Fenix store and "other" stores, I'm not going to pull any punches and what I'm going to say will get peoples' noses bent out of shape; however I make absolutely no apologies about it.

I consider most claims of lumen figures as worthless. They're usually quoted off the manufacturers data sheet which was taken under ideal (thermal, environmental, no optic/reflector/lenses etc.) conditions and the quoted figures are probably 30%-40% on the optimistic side. I will say there are some reputable manufacturers/individuals who I trust with lumen figures. But I can also say I can count the quantity on one hand.
 

DrJ

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The battery type (as in voltage output and internal resistance) makes a big difference...what type of battery was used in testing the L0P in the sphere? If you look at the flashlightreviews.com graphs, the L0P isn't very well regulated, if the "right" battery was used, could the advertised lumens figure be reached?
 

4sevens

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DrJ said:
The battery type (as in voltage output and internal resistance) makes a big difference...what type of battery was used in testing the L0P in the sphere? If you look at the flashlightreviews.com graphs, the L0P isn't very well regulated, if the "right" battery was used, could the advertised lumens figure be reached?

Alkalines were used. Alkalines simply have handle the load. Notice
the sharp drop near the beginning. I believe outputs were measured
after a few minutes.

If NiMH or lithiums were uses it would have been different.

Fenix's website says 30 lumens maximum (link) - which i can only assume a
theoritical 1.5v was applied to the light.

I wish there were tests done with NiMH's or Lithiums or even possibly
a bench supply set at 1.5v - just to see if 30 lumens was even possible.
 

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