17670 Batteries?

[realitycheck]

Hey guys I was talking to lumafist yesterday and he suggested I get some 17670 batteries for my SureFire G2 LED. Im getting a Malkoff M60 so I want some rechargeables.
My question does just one of these go in the surefire to make it work or does it take two, just like the cr123's?
Also will these fit in my G2 and is the best battery I can get to fit in this body or is there another one that would last longer?
Thanks for your help,
Chet

 

[Marduke]

17670 is the size of two CR123's, but 3.7v nominal.

For the M60, 2xRCR123 will give you the best performance. If you want to go the single Li-Ion route, I highly recommend the M30 instead. Same output, but it's geared specifically for 1xLi-Ion use.

 

[LightWalker]

I can use a 17670 in my Fenix TK10 on low for long runtimes.

 

[DHart]

The M60 runs great on a single 18650 or 17670. Nicely, it will drop out of regulation as it drops in voltage and give a nice looong runtime at diminishing brightness... no sudden power cuts like you get with two 16340's.

 

[realitycheck]

Alright so I have two different opinions here.
I dont know anything about this so please excuse my ignorance. But wouldnt marduke be correct in getting a longer runtime with two batteries instead of one?

 

[Marduke]

Alright so I have two different opinions here.
I dont know anything about this so please excuse my ignorance. But wouldnt marduke be correct in getting a longer runtime with two batteries instead of one?

It depends on the module. The M60 on 1x17670 will fall out of regulation quicker, and have a long period of reducing brightness as the battery runs down.

On 2xRCR123 (16340's), the M60 will run longer in regulation, but have little or no period of reduced brightness.

If you run the M30 on 1x17670, it will better utilize the 1x17670 cell by running in regulation longer.

1x17670 has more energy than 2xRCR123's.

 

[1996alnl]

The 17670 cell has more capacity (1600-1800mA) than a 16340 cell (750mA).
That's what gives you the runtime not the voltage.

 

[realitycheck]

And regulation is the time it stays in its maximum lumen output correct?
Once it goes below the voltage dictated by the module it goes into direct drive and starts slowly diminishing?
If I go with 16340's is that when you have a chance of the light all of a sudden just cutting off and you really have no warning of when it might do it?

 

[Yoda4561]

With 16340's you'll get around 45 minutes of full power runtime. With lithium ion batteries, running them below 3v can start to damage the cells, leading to reduced runtime and recharges. Using protected cells the protection circuit will suddenly cut the light off when they reach around 2.5v per cell. The M60 will still be at full power right before that cut, so you'll be left in the dark suddenly, this happens to all flashlights that are running in full regulation on a rechargable. 1 17670 will run close to or at full power for an unspecified amount of time, some have estimated around 30-40 minutes, then slowly dim over a few hours as the module goes to direct drive (below 3.8v), by the time the protection circuit kicks in the light will have dimmed to less than 1/10 it's normal output.

 

[Kestrel]

To add to Yoda4561's post,

M60 with a single AW _protected_ 17500 (it's the closest thing I had to the 17670, the behavior of which I am most interested in with regards to unregulated behavior in an M60):
~200 to ~140 lumens for hour one.
~140 to ~80 lumens for hour two.
~80 lumens to ~20 lumens for hour three.
(lumen figures are unfortunately guestimates, based on my other various configurations in my integrating bathroom)
After 4 hours, down to maybe 10 lumens and still the protection circuit hasn't triggered, so I got bored & turned off the light.

Compare this to the _M30_ on a 17500, with a calculated runtime of 60 minutes @ 240 lumens (calculating off of a tested runtime of 1:20 min with a 17670).

So whatever turns your crank, that's what makes this hobby so fun.

 

[realitycheck]

So basically it comes out to if you would rather have full light for a longer time and then poof your in the dark.
Or not ever make full lumens and have a battery that would drain to almost no lumens before ever going out.
Man thats a hard decision?
Any other options for the m60 and G2 combo? :thinking:

 

[Kestrel]

Man thats a hard decision?

I completely agree with you, such a small configuration change creating two completely different behaviors.
Solution: Get both. If you really get into the Malkoff drop-ins you'll have a ball trying them in different configurations you put together. In the very unlikely event that you won't want to keep both, sell the config you don't want for 95% of your purchase price on the Marketplace.:huh:

Either configuration stomps the stuffing out of a 2xRCR123 setup due to having considerably more watt-hours of stored energy in the larger single-cell. Plus purchasing a pair of the long cells gives you one backup, while you'd have to purchase four RCR123's and juggle them, possibly getting them mixed up in the dark when your protection circuit triggers.

The same debate (M60 vs M30) is currently running in this thread, you might find that helpful:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=226590
Also, there is a great thread on M60 and M30 runtimes here, it's pretty much the CPF bible for the two drop-ins:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=194879
IMO darn near the best CPF thread ever, at least for my interests. Enjoy!

 

[Kestrel]

You will get the most output (& heat) from the M30 (theoretically more heat than even a full-driven M60 - more current flow due to the lower voltage _plus_ heat coming from the boost circuit), but your host (plastic body / aluminum bezel) is marginal for getting that heat out. It should be ok from what I've read on CPF, but it is pushing it. I can't say more specifically, no real experience with this configuration - the other configurations I've tried, to avoid any potential heat issue on this. YMMV.

 

[Outdoors Fanatic]

Hey guys I was talking to lumafist yesterday and he suggested I get some 17670 batteries for my SureFire G2 LED. Im getting a Malkoff M60 so I want some rechargeables.
My question does just one of these go in the surefire to make it work or does it take two, just like the cr123's?
Also will these fit in my G2 and is the best battery I can get to fit in this body or is there another one that would last longer?
Thanks for your help,
Chet

Go with the Malkoff M30 + SureFire 6P + AW 17670.

Do not use the G2 or any other host made of Polymer/plastic with high-powered LED modules.

 

[DHart]

Just did a quick output test (bathroom ceiling bounce) between the M60 and the M30 driven in a 6P host by a fresh off the charger AW protected 18650. Measured in EV, at 29" distance from ceiling, converted to Lux. With the relatively short 29" measurement distance, a measurement difference of .1 EV is totally insignificant.

To the eye the difference in output is hardly if even noticible. To a light meter, there is a measureable difference, however.

Body=======Bezel===Lamp=======Power======EV===Lux
Fivemega 6P===6P=====M30=====AW 18650=====5.3===104.0
Fivemega 6P===6P=====M60=====AW 18650=====5.0===80.0
Fivemega 6P===6P=====R2 3.7v===AW 18650=====5.0===80.0

The R2 is a Solarforce R2-M 3.7v 5-mode lamp module tested on high (about $18 from solarforcestore.com).

So from a practical standpoint, the M60 (due to power versatility & long run time) is arguably the better choice. But as Kestrel said above, just get both and enjoy the fun!

 

[Kestrel]

Just did a quick output test (bathroom ceiling bounce) between the M60 and the M30 driven in a 6P host by a fresh off the charger AW protected 18650.

The above test by DHart proves my point, which is: Yes, you too could be having as much fun as he is: swapping around hosts & emitters!:twothumbs

 

[DHart]

Here are my test results with an AW protected 16340, hot-off-the-charger. Measured in EV, at 29" distance from bathroom ceiling, converted to Lux. With the relatively short 29" measurement distance, a measurement difference of .1 EV is totally insignificant.

Body===== Bezel==Lamp========Power====EV======Lux
Fivemega 3P==6P===M30========AW16340===5.3====104.0
Fivemega 3P==6P===M60========AW16340===5.1=====88.0
Fivemega 3P==6P===SolFor R2 3.7v==AW16340===4.9=====76.0

The R2 is a Solarforce R2-M 3.7v 5-mode drop-in lamp module tested on high (about $18 from solarforcestore.com). This is an excellent option if keeping costs down is important.

Again, though the results have measureable differences, to the eye there is little, if any, noticible/useable difference in output.

=======

Just to put things into perspective, here are some of my comparative measurements, same test set-up:

Body===========Lamp========Power====EV======Lux
Romisen RC-N3=====Q5========AW16340===4.5=====60.0
Surefire E1B================CR123=====4.3=====52.0
Surefire L1=================CR123=====3.9=====38.0

=======

Now, I've got to stay out of the bathroom and get some of my real work done!

 

[Kestrel]

Body===== Bezel==Lamp========Power====EV======Lux
Fivemega 3P==6P===M30========AW16340===5.3====104.0
Fivemega 3P==6P===M60========AW16340===5.1=====88.0
Fivemega 3P==6P===SolFor R2 3.7v==AW16340===4.9=====76.0

Hey, I see you're working on formatting your charts, they might be prettier like this? :nana:
(assuming the standard color scheme display)
Body________Bezel_Lamp.________Power______EV_____Lux
Fivemega 3P__6P___M30._________AW16340___5.3____104.0
Fivemega 3P__6P___M60._________AW16340___5.1_____88.0
Fivemega 3P__6P___SolFor R2 3.7v_AW16340___4.9_____76.0

Definitely more work though, formatting charts via text is difficult here...

 

[DHart]

Definitely more work though, formatting charts via text is difficult here...

No kidding! I had hoped I could just paste in a chunk from my spreadsheet, but noooooooo! Yes, your formatting looks MUCH better than my quickie ad-hoc job!

 

[realitycheck]

It depends on the module. The M60 on 1x17670 will fall out of regulation quicker, and have a long period of reducing brightness as the battery runs down.

On 2xRCR123 (16340's), the M60 will run longer in regulation, but have little or no period of reduced brightness.

If you run the M30 on 1x17670, it will better utilize the 1x17670 cell by running in regulation longer.

1x17670 has more energy than 2xRCR123's.

Well if the 17670 runs at 3.7 volts and the M60 goes out of regulation below 3.8 volts. It would never be in regulation right?
From the getgo it would always be running below the 235 lumens, right?