18650 charger and cells, do I have it right?

ebow86

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
1,297
Location
Pennsylvania
First off let me let it be known I have hardly any knowledge of batteries or chargers, but I'm hoping to learn with all the great info on this site. Now onto my question.

I've gotten a new Fenix Tk30 that can use 18650 cells. I've done some searching and have seen many post's on 18650 cells and chargers. I want to purchase one, but before I do I want to make absolute certain I buying the correct thing. Money isn't much of an issue here, so I'm going with this charger http://www.flashlightz.com/product.php?p=pila_bc01-ac01&product=171829&category=1225 and these cells http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-...able-Lithium-Battery--New-Version_p_3125.html

Would this be the best setup for a newbie with a TK30? With being new to batteries and chargers I'm a little scarred of overcharging, overdischarging, and everything else that goes with it.
 
I'd say you're a good researcher. :thumbsup: That's what I'd recommend.

Since you're new to Li-Ion care and feeding, I'd highly recommend that you check out the relavent threads in the "sticky" at the top of this forum, and also the "Smoke and Fire" subfourm also at the top of the page. However, since you're such a good researcher, you've most likely already done that. :)

Dave
 
I think I received the exact items but am still a little nervous. I read the stickies but it gave me just enough info to freak me out.
Just to be clear I have:
-Pila IBC charger
-AW IC +Power Li-ion Rechargable 3.7V 18650 2600mAh

As I understand, there is a potential danger of fire and explosion, both during charging and when in use. I should insert the cells (according to polarity) and press reset once. When the light turns green I remove cells and unplug charger. During charging, I stay in the same room as the charger in case of fire and avoid flammable surroundings like furniture.

1. Any tips to reduce risk of fire?

2. Any warning signs of impending doom?

3. With this setup, am I at very little risk of my TK11 exploding? What can I do to be safe(er)?

4. Do I have to do anything special to prolong the life of the 18650's? Is it bad to charge cell when almost full? How about almost empty? Is it good or bad to run the cell down? If its bad to run the cell down, will the cell or the light "shut off" to prevent damage?
 
I think I received the exact items but am still a little nervous. I read the stickies but it gave me just enough info to freak me out.
Just to be clear I have:
-Pila IBC charger
-AW IC +Power Li-ion Rechargable 3.7V 18650 2600mAh

As I understand, there is a potential danger of fire and explosion, both during charging and when in use. I should insert the cells (according to polarity) and press reset once. When the light turns green I remove cells and unplug charger. During charging, I stay in the same room as the charger in case of fire and avoid flammable surroundings like furniture.

1. Any tips to reduce risk of fire?

2. Any warning signs of impending doom?

3. With this setup, am I at very little risk of my TK11 exploding? What can I do to be safe(er)?

4. Do I have to do anything special to prolong the life of the 18650's? Is it bad to charge cell when almost full? How about almost empty? Is it good or bad to run the cell down? If its bad to run the cell down, will the cell or the light "shut off" to prevent damage?


You see this is what's scaring me. I can read stickys and posts till I'm blue in the face but that isn't going to make me any less concerned. After reading your post now I'm reconserding, maybe I should just stick with primaries:thinking:
 
As I understand, there is a potential danger of fire and explosion, both during charging and when in use. I should insert the cells (according to polarity) and press reset once. When the light turns green I remove cells and unplug charger. During charging, I stay in the same room as the charger in case of fire and avoid flammable surroundings like furniture.

1. Any tips to reduce risk of fire?

2. Any warning signs of impending doom?

3. With this setup, am I at very little risk of my TK11 exploding? What can I do to be safe(er)?
The TK11 takes a single 18650, so your risk is reduced simply by the use of a single cell.

You are using the AW 2600 cell - risk is reduced.
You are using a Pila IBC charger - risk is reduced.

Get yourself a DMM (digital multimeter) and check the voltage of your cell(s) regularly.

Here is a table that shows the voltage of regular Li-ion cells and the approximate capacity remaining of the cell:

4.2V = 100%
4.1V = about 90%
4.0V = about 80%
3.9V = about 60%
3.8V = about 40%
3.7V = about 20%
3.6V = empty
<3.5V = over-discharged


4. Do I have to do anything special to prolong the life of the 18650's? Is it bad to charge cell when almost full? How about almost empty? Is it good or bad to run the cell down? If its bad to run the cell down, will the cell or the light "shut off" to prevent damage?
Li-Ion cells prefer to be charged frequently, so if you use your light for a bit, toss the cell on the charger and top it up.

Running a cell down to the point that it shuts off is bad for the longevity of the cell.

If the cells get run down too far, the protection circuit will kick in and "shut off".
DO NOT rely on the protection circuit as your indicator that it's time to charge a cell.

If you do so, you will shorten the life of your cells (good for AW, bad for your wallet :))
 
If I wanted to "be nice" to the cell, at what voltage should I stop use and recharge?
 
If I wanted to "be nice" to the cell, at what voltage should I stop use and recharge?

As long as your not discharging to under 2.75v under load (about a 3.5v resting voltage), there isn't a problem. The cell will last the longest if it is left at a 40-60% charging state when not in use for longer periods of time.
 
1. Any tips to reduce risk of fire?

Some folks suggest charging cells in a fireproof metal box. While that would increase the safety factor, I just charge cells on my stove. The kitchen sink is 3 feet to the right of the stove and has an easily opened window just above it, if things were to get really out of hand. Additionally, I never leave the room while cells are charging.

2. Any warning signs of impending doom?
In most cases, a damaged cell will give some warning signs that can alert the user to potential problems. Damaged cells will become abnormally warm when nearing full charge on the charger. They also will not hold their charge well. If a cell charges to 4.20 Volts, for example, and within an hour or so, the voltage has dropped to less than 4.00 Volts, the cell is either damaged, or at EOL. As Black brought up, a means to measure cell voltage is really a requirement when using Li-Ion cells.

Another possible sign of a damaged, or worn out cell is if the cell just doesn't seem to perform as well as it used to. The output of your light may be noticeably less, or the runtime may seem much shorter. In either case this is a sign that the cell should be replaced.

3. With this setup, am I at very little risk of my TK11 exploding? What can I do to be safe(er)?
Keep in mind that, particularly with LiCo Li-Ion cells, you are always at a higher safety risk than when using nickel based, or alkaline cells. None of the various types of Li-Ion cells were ever intended by the manufacturers of the cells to be used in flashlights. Our hobby has just "borrowed" them from their primary use, which is the building of battery packs for electronic devices, tools, and such. These devices all have their own unique, built in, finely tuned to the particular application, protection systems, not only in the device itself, but in the charging system, as well.

If you familiarize yourself with the proper handling and care of Li-Ion cells, you should be fine. One thing I will mention here, is that when you are using multiple Li-Ion cells in series, it's just as important as when using primary lithium cells, to monitor the cell's voltages so that they remain "matched" in capacity. Never use cells of different voltage, capacity, or SOC (state of charge), in series applications. Also, the use of protected cells is almost mandatory, particularly if you are new to using Li-Ion's.

4. Do I have to do anything special to prolong the life of the 18650's? Is it bad to charge cell when almost full? How about almost empty? Is it good or bad to run the cell down? If its bad to run the cell down, will the cell or the light "shut off" to prevent damage?
All chemistry of Li-Ion cells prefer a shallow discharge, as opposed to discharging them fully, each use. You can do as jasonck08 suggested, and it is safe, but your cells will not last nearly as many cycles.

As has been mentioned, storing unused Li-Ion cells at about a 40% SOC will prolong their calendar and cycle life considerably. Also, storing them in an airtight container (eg. a Ziploc bag) in the fridge, can significantly extend lifetime, as opposed to storing them at room temperature.

Personally, I try to avoid "topping off" Li-Ion cells if they have only been run down a tiny bit. For example, if I have a light that runs for one hour, I don't consider recharging the cell until it has been run 10, or 15 minutes. This doesn't mean you can't top them off whenever you want, but the time spent at the end of the charge cycle, is the hardest part of the charge regimen on the cell, and causes the most wear.

As far as running cells down until either the protection circuit, or the lights circuitry shuts the light down, this is a bad habit to develop. Both of these functions are designed as a safety, to protect the user, not the cell. It's best to avoid this situation, if you want your cells to last.

You see this is what's scaring me. I can read stickys and posts till I'm blue in the face but that isn't going to make me any less concerned. After reading your post now I'm reconserding, maybe I should just stick with primaries:thinking:

Hope this helps both of you guys. It's not as much of a PITA as it sounds, to care and feed for your Li-Ion cells. Once you develop the proper routine, you get used to it. Keep reading, and with that, and some experience, you'll do fine. :)

Dave
 
Hope this helps both of you guys. It's not as much of a PITA as it sounds, to care and feed for your Li-Ion cells. Once you develop the proper routine, you get used to it. Keep reading, and with that, and some experience, you'll do fine. :)

Dave

I have been following this thread with intrest because I had similar concerns. The info provided by Dave certainly cleared many doubts. Now I feel more cofident to take this route.

Many thanks Dave and guys.
 
I charge my batteries on the kitchen counter when I am about 12 feet away watching tv. I inspect the batteries for damage to the external casings. I check periodically to make sure I don't overcharge. The batteries do get warm when charging but they've never been hot. I have also set a kitchen clock when the batteries need a full charge and it's going to take 3-4 hours; I'm afraid I'll forget about them. I also replaced my 8 year old fire extinguisher. I only have single battery flashlights. I keep thinking about a 2xRCR123 flashlight, but after all the warnings about 2x battery lights, I pass on these.

I also recommend getting a decent digital multimeter and check batteries as they go in and come out of the charger.

I also use caution when charging my Eneloops. And I've stopped leaving my laptop plugged in all the time at home. More LiIon batteries in there.

Care and caution are in order.
 
Get yourself a DMM (digital multimeter) and check the voltage of your cell(s) regularly.

Can you recommend one? I read a "primer" of sorts here on how to use multimeters to check cell voltage and the writer shows how far off readings from budget devices can be next to better (read: expensive) multimeters.

Others here claim to get by on the $5-$10 voltmeters/multimeters by double checking readings with some other cheap device, but I haven;t slept in a looong time and can't recall the name of these things or what threads they came from. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Li-Ion cells prefer to be charged frequently, so if you use your light for a bit, toss the cell on the charger and top it up.

What about on camping trips? Solution? Bring topped up extras? Also on camping trips, If running an 18650 light, how would you know when voltage is getting too low? People doen't bring multimeters camping, do they? DO THEY?:eek:

Running a cell down to the point that it shuts off is bad for the longevity of the cell. If the cells get run down too far, the protection circuit will kick in and "shut off".

As long as your not discharging to under 2.75v under load (about a 3.5v resting voltage), there isn't a problem. The cell will last the longest if it is left at a 40-60% charging state when not in use for longer periods of time.

I've also read that li-ions cannot be charged on some (all?) chargers once they've dropped down past a certain voltage. Is that true? If yes, then what, garbage? Thay can't be right.

I have being delivered to me some AW 18650 2600mah and AW RCR123A 750mah. Will they be topped up upon delivery or will they need to be charged me for the first time?

Li-ions are daunting stuff, and I've already done more reading on them in the last three days (which have turned into nights, which has even turned into morning once:eek:) than I've done for anything else since college. Thanks, guys.
 
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