18650 sodium-ion battery

[XTAR Light]

There is a video about testing a new 18650 sodium-ion battery. The reviewer measured the battery capacity was around 1300mAh, with discharging from 4V to 2V. The sodium-ion battery seems having a lower capacity vs the same size lithium battery.


While, it's said that the sodium-ion battery can be discharged to 0V without causing irreversible damage to it. Bigger voltage difference between full and low charge, hopefully safer. Besides, the sodium-ion battery has superior low temperature performance. It claims the sodium-ion battery can retain 95% its capacity at -20℃and 92% and -30℃. And cycle life is up to 4000 cycles. But these features have been independently verified yet.

The sodium-ion battery is coming to the market. Do you think it's a potential ahead?

 

[Monocrom]

Are they cheaper than lithium-ions?
Will they work in my flashlights?
And can I use my existing chargers to charge them up?
Honestly, that's all I care about.

 

[desert.snake]

If it goes into production, it might work well in screwdrivers, people here like to discharge batteries while working and only remember about charging immediately before the next use in a couple of months, recharge for 5-10 minutes and discharge it again to 0 and also forget about it several months, and then have to order a new battery pack

 

[Monocrom]

Those folks would be better off with a cheaper corded driver, instead.

 

[desert.snake]

Those folks would be better off with a cheaper corded driver, instead.

or that

 

[Monocrom]

Definitely. I have a modern-day "analog" driver very similar in design to that one. Ideal for the Post Apocalypse or Society-hating hermit loner who lives deep in the woods.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Definitely. I have a modern-day "analog" driver very similar in design to that one. Ideal for the Post Apocalypse or Society-hating hermit loner who lives deep in the woods.

Wow, this takes me back. We had an egg-beater driver in the family a long time ago. I'd completely forgotten about it until I saw this picture.

Anyway, I'm interested in this battery chemistry also. I would happily trade off a little bit of runtime for the increased safety.

So if these are supposed to be charged to 4.0 volts, they technically can't be charged with existing chargers which charge to 4.2 volts...? And a charger that auto-detects the battery type won't know about sodium batteries yet, so I don't know what they would do with one.

 

[orbital]

.... Do you think it's a potential ahead?

+

For flashlights, no.
At 1/3 the runtime, not much of anything else either.

XTAR, make a 21700 LFP and charger for its slightly lower voltage

 

[jtr1962]

For stuff like stationary power storage, the cost per kW-hr is what matters the most by far. Safety and cycle life are also important in this use case. I read that sodium-ion could come out at $30 to $40 per kW-hr, compared to ~$100/kW-hr for LiFePO4. That and the very long cycle life favor it economically non-energy dense applications.

No, you won't see sodium-ion in applications where energy density is the primary criteria.

 

[KITROBASKIN]

What has been written on diysolarforum is a Chinese car maker is going substantial with them. Stationary banks are said to be in development as well.

Their charge/discharge profile is quite different than conventional lithium, LFP or lead acid, with a rather large voltage range (this is what I remember), requiring different charging devices as well as (in the case of converting to AC electricity) different inverters.

 

[PhotonWrangler]

Found an article this morning about a recent improvement in the cathode material by using a Prussian Blue substance. They're going to begin sampling this product next year with the initial market being energy storage rather than small batteries. Oddly the manufacturer's page calls the cathode material "Prussian White" while showing a photo of Prussian Blue. Maybe there's some patent shenanigans going on there.

 

[jtr1962]

If anyone wants to get some of these to play with, they're available https://jag35.com/collections/new-a...0-cycle-battery-12v-sodium-ion-5-6ah-25c-140a

Parsing the specs I'm getting an energy density of around only 25 Wh/kg, or about 1/10th the energy density of lithium-ion, but that might be due to designing for 50K cycles.

 

[zerodish]

They are showing up now. Everyone thinks they will made out of salt. But it turns out we have massive supplies of sodium carbonate. Liberating salt leads to the problem of what to do with all the chlorine. Right now they are a bit heavier that LiPo. This is not a problem on automobiles. When they get cheaper you can divert the money into making other parts of the automobile lighter. Fun fact ambulances have dead weight underneath to keep them from turning over. Better to replace this with batteries. I will be willing to try a triple D in my Maglite. Sodium charges at 9 degrees cooler than LiPo. What the big battery makers need to do is put a cold weather charging battery wrapped around sodium ion batteries. Then fast charging the cold weather battery will warm up the sodium in batteries. https://techxplore.com/news/2024-04-sodium-battery-capable-rapid-seconds.html