2000+L, $300 budget....Please Help!

rangeK

Newly Enlightened
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
8
This is my first post, so hello everyone!

I am looking for some help & advice. I want to build a flashlight to keep in the car, use for emergencies, and wow some friends....

Here's what i had hoped for:

2000+ Lumens
45 min runtime
3" head, maybe crenellated
Approx the length of a 2D or 3D mag, give or take a little
Host could be mag, but doesnt have to be, ( i really like the look where the battery area is a bigger diameter than the switch section)
Rechargeable, but i dont want a PITA to recharge where i have to check the voltage on each cell & watch them while they charge
Withstand stting in the car in the day (gets very hot in the south florida sun)
Budget $300 or so

Is this possible? And best brand / place to buy the parts. Any and all help and improvements are appreciated...
 
welcome in cpf!;)
I don't know how you can obtain 2000L with 45 minutes of runtime:thinking: but you can go for this light that offer a good compromise: runtime/output:naughty:

this flashlight is made by Fivemega (cpf member) and in my opinion is a very high quality flashligh...
-you can get the 2.5" Fivemega throw master head (105$) HERE becouse I don't know where you can get a 3" head
-Fivemega 1450L M*g 2-1/4D (135$) (I don't know if still in stock, contact him for info), bi pin socket (30$), Bi pin 14.8V bulb (10$ each) HERE
-li-ion 14670 batteries are sold (10$ each-->80$) HERE
-li-ion chareger (I don't know where..:thinking:)

another good light may be the wolfeyes 24W HID @ 385$ / 1800L / 90min of runtime....
 
Your requirements put you in the HID league. It is not possible to get this brightness out of an incan with that kind of runtime. A WolfEyes Boxer 24W HID or MIcrofire K2000R, both HID with 1800 bulb lumens are good candidates.
 
Filippo, I did look at that FM 1450L thread and i thought 3 things..
1. It that Lithium going to blow up or be a hassle if I dont charge it right
2. Since I was willing to go with a longer host if need be, I though maybe i could get more lumens..
3. I should contact FiveMega....but also i was thinking that buying everything separately and doing minor assembly would be enjoyable....
 
This is my first post, so hello everyone!

I am looking for some help & advice. I want to build a flashlight to keep in the car, use for emergencies, and wow some friends....

Here's what i had hoped for:

2000+ Lumens As far as I know you have two choices for this. One would be a USL or Torch type light and be powered by nimhs. A safe power supply, but you'd never reach your runtime or even come close in a handheld light powered by nimhs. You could get close to these lumens as mentioned by others with a Fivemega type light, but you are right about there being possible dangers in respect to using li-on rechargeables. If you're not willing to do what's needed to be safe, and it can be a hassle, then you'd be better off sticking with nimhs. Personally, I use Fivemega's charging jack type system with li-ions and have never had a problem, but I do keep an eye on the voltage of individual cells.

The second choice would be an HID light. You mention that you like to make it yourself. I've never put together an HID, but my understanding is that the tolerances are quite tight in a Mag type host. With a decent knowledge of electronics and access to some tools, I'm sure you could do it. A search of CPF would probably yield all the information you need. If you want the lumens and the runtime, HID is probably the way to go. More efficient, thus the extended runtime.

45 min runtime

3" head, maybe crenellated With a $300 dollar budget, I'd say you'll be lucky to afford the aforementioned Fivemega Throwmaster. You'd be well advised IMO to make you decision on the size and type of head you want the last decision you make if your budget is tight. Even building the light yourself could get expensive, depending on your ability to make parts for the light, etc.

Approx the length of a 2D or 3D mag, give or take a little
Host could be mag, but doesnt have to be, ( i really like the look where the battery area is a bigger diameter than the switch section)
Rechargeable, but i dont want a PITA to recharge where i have to check the voltage on each cell & watch them while they charge
Withstand stting in the car in the day (gets very hot in the south florida sun)
Budget $300 or so

Is this possible? And best brand / place to buy the parts. Any and all help and improvements are appreciated...

IMO, you should think about lowering your runtime expectations and go with a nimh powered light. It would be much easier to build, much cheaper to build, and the parts for it, such as bulbs, battery packs, etc are much more readily available. The wow factor is hard to beat and they're fairly reliable and typically safe or as safe as any light putting out 2,000 lumens can be.

Chuck
 
Thanks for the inputs....

I dont want to go the HID route, as i want the instant-on capability.

I can live with a comprimise on the runtime (maybe 30-35 min) or the lumens (maybe 1700ish) to make it work if that helps

I think nimhs is the better route for me.

Any further suggestions?
 
That is a sweet light for the price....im just not sure if i can handle the size......if I go the maglite size route, i would be more likely to bring it inside at night for home use in case the power goes out / sell defense / etc.....right now i use a L4 lumamax & im looking for alot more.
 
rangeK,
Once you get above 1200 lumens (mag85) your getting into the really hot hotwires. Where they are more for a "short running show off torch" rather than for daily use. A 700 to 800 lumen light is really a more practical very impresive daily use light. Once you hit 2000 lumens you might as well go for 4000 with 10 minute runtime that can catch newspaper on fire.
I think most of us here would like a practical 2000 lumen incan torch with 1hr runtime in the standard flash light form. I'm sure they will be out there soon, so keep up with CPF and who knows you may come up with proper batery and bulb configuration for us all. Mean time welcome to CPF and hold onto your wallet.
 
thanks again for the help....maybe I'll build a ROP to tide me over in the meantime
 
You could have an ROP run for an hour from Elite 4500 sub C cells. Another option is a Mag85 running on AW Li-ion C cells.

For higher output with long runtimes you could use D size Li-ion cells. I have a 4D Mag 625 running off of 4 D size Li-ion cells. It gives just shy of 3000 lumens for about 30 minutes. A similar setup with slightly less power, longer battery life and more throw would use the 138 bulb. These setups require a hotdriver and tailcap resistors to run off of the 14.4V source voltage.

I think the closest you can get to your goal with incandescent would be a 35W IRC lamp running on 5 D size Li-ion cells to give 1800 lumens for 66 minutes.

For more output you could run the 50W IRC lamp off of 5 D size Li-ion cells to give 2500 lumens for 49 minutes or 3300 lumens for 37 minutes. These different output levels were controlled using a hotdriver.

I believe these IRC setups may need a hotdriver, but I am not at all sure.
 
You could have an ROP run for an hour from Elite 4500 sub C cells. Another option is a Mag85 running on AW Li-ion C cells.

For higher output with long runtimes you could use D size Li-ion cells. I have a 4D Mag 625 running off of 4 D size Li-ion cells. It gives just shy of 3000 lumens for about 30 minutes. A similar setup with slightly less power, longer battery life and more throw would use the 138 bulb. These setups require a hotdriver and tailcap resistors to run off of the 14.4V source voltage.

I think the closest you can get to your goal with incandescent would be a 35W IRC lamp running on 5 D size Li-ion cells to give 1800 lumens for 66 minutes.

For more output you could run the 50W IRC lamp off of 5 D size Li-ion cells to give 2500 lumens for 49 minutes or 3300 lumens for 37 minutes. These different output levels were controlled using a hotdriver.

I believe these IRC setups may need a hotdriver, but I am not at all sure.

Do you have a link to a thread or the ingredients for that 4d mag 625? This sounds like a great light. And is there an easy, safe way to charge the lithiums?
 
This was not an easy light to build; not because it was difficult to assemble, but because it was difficult to obtain all of the parts. I have been working on this light for about a year. The holdups with this build are the D size Li-ion batteries, of which only 300 were ever made about 2 years ago, and a suitable regulating circuit to prevent instaflashing the bulb and driving it too hard.

With 14.4V from the 4 Li-ion cells, my AWR hotdriver can't handle dropping the bulb voltage down to 12.48 (IIRC) without frying the FET, so two tailcap resistors help by dropping about 1V with 9.3 Amps of current flowing through them. Thermal grease carries the resulting heat to the tailcap.

Since the D size Li-ion cells are unprotected, extra care must be exercised whenever handling, charging, or discharging them. To that end I also soldered a 10 Amp automotive style plug fuse into the tailcap in case the light develops a short.

This light gets extremely hot in operation, so the hotdriver circuit must be configured with the optional high power thermal shutdown option. The high power option also uses an FET with greater power handling capability. There is also a slightly different build up required for certain bulbs such as the 62625 in that they need the KIU socket to be set at a different height. The circuit overheats in something like five minutes of continuous operation without insulating it from the heat with ceramic insulation behind the reflector. I am using a 1/2" ceramic blanket material.

Of course, the stock lens and reflector must be replaced with borofloat glass and aluminum respectively, and since the 64625 produces a beam with many artifacts otherwise, the use of a stippled reflector is recommended. This light is not optimized for throw, but can light up everything for 300 feet in front of you. I like a #6 stipple (medium stipple) from Litho123.

Lights in this class are a responsibility and should be treated like loaded weapons, which is why I never store the batteries in the light. I built a PVC battery carrying tube for transportation and storage. Not only will this light start fires, but I would hate to see someone burned or with permanent vision loss because of carelessness. On this note, charging the largest Li-ion cells ever made should be of utmost concern, because it is overcharging that will result in a violent reaction aka explosion. I am building my own 2 Amp charger which is discussed in this thread, but if I had the money I would like to invest in a Triton or Schulze or similar versatile charger. The last thing I would use is an Ultrafire WF-138 or WF-139 because they are known for overcharging unprotected Li-ion cells, and I have noticed that larger capacity cells tend to overcharge to a greater degree with these types of chargers. I charged one of my D cells with a DSD and came back for a voltage check to find it up to 4.22V and still charging. The same charger does not overcharge AW C cells, AW 18650s (both protected) or unprotected Sony 17670s. These cells should be charged individually and always monitored for voltage balance before and after runs. The hotdriver will automatically shut the light off when the input voltage drops to 90% of the set voltage, so this setup does have some measure of overdischarge protection.
 
I did a search for the 625 4-D & I saw that the cells were in very high demand & little supply. The best things always are. Anyhow, that sound like a great project, definitely too advanced for my blood, but very nice.
 
2000+lm seems way up there. IMHO its not useful as a car light unless:

1. The headlights go out and you need emergency light to drive by, or
2. You have a welding mask handy

I just finished my ROP and it puts out soooooooooo much light that I have not found a usefulness for it inside of 50 feet. It lights up the neighborhood really well, it spotlights critters in the woods, it shines the tops of trees a football field away, but it is too bright for any close up work like changing a tire or fuse.

Again, just an opinion on a "Car Light". My favorite car light is a 4D Mag running alkys and a Radio Shack XPR-103 bulb. Usable brightness and reasonable runtime. I like to think of it as "fire and forget".
 
Since you mentioned that you want a light to keep in the car for emergencies, I will also add something about battery choices.

Standard Nimh chemistry exhibits faster self discharge than Li-ion or the new low self discharge hybrid batteries (Eneloop, Rayovac Hybrid, etc.), so if you want the light to always be at a ready with as much capacity as you left it with, then you might not want to use standard Nimh batteries.

Li-ion batteries are known for working better in very cold weather than Nimh, but Li-ion cells are more easily overheated, such as might happen with a black light in direct sunlight in a closed car on a hot day (complete speculation here folks). In operation they will shut down when they get too hot, so that is not a typical failure mechanism.

If you want to build a light that uses hybrids, take a look at the Mag85 on Eneloop AAs. The mag 85 is a lot of light, and would throw like a champ with a 3" head and a 3" FM reflector. It wouldn't start a fire, but would still impress friends. :grin2:

And I am going to agree with molite about the everyday usefulness of the really bright lights. I was camping last weekend and had along a modded Q3, Mag 2C running 6 cell Mag bulb on 18650s, a Mag5761 LE, and the Mag625 LE. For most tasks it was just more practical to use the Q3 or the Mag 2C. The 2C was the only one I felt I could use without being too conscious of the remaining battery capacity.
 
I know you mentioned you want instant-on, but if you'd have to compromise so much on output, runtime, battery options and deal with heat issues, I'd rather just compromise on the instant-on and get a nice HID :D

Super output, wow throw (light sabre!) and with a diffuser, a great area light. What's more, they can prob do 1-2 hrs runtime. I think these are worth the minor 10s startup wait. Unless you are trying to flash someone in the eyes instantly (don't do it though), the startup time doesn't seem to much of a problem for your intended uses.
 
RangeK, welcome to CPF's!

You are wise to spend some time reading and asking the questions you are asking. Much good advice here. You can get an idea of my personal ranking of brightness from this thread.

I would personally recommend that you go with the 5th on the list using the 43W Carley. FM does have more of these available (as of a few weeks ago). I get at least 30 minutes out of all three of these that I have. Put one of FM's 2.5" Turbo Heads, and you have an awsome and very useable light.

It's fine to use Lithium Ions as long as you have a volt meter to check the readings, making sure that the cells are getting about the same voltage readings when charged up (+/- 0.2 V) . The easiest way to charge them is with a quality 2 slot charger like the Pila shown here that shuts off when it reaches 4.15 to 4.2 Volts...so they will all get voltage balanced by this individual charging to the shutoff maximum. The AW UltraFire charger (last I heard) does not shut off charging voltage so it is not as safe if you forget to take out the batteries (and trust me, eventually you will forget).

I bought two of these Pilas, so charging 8 cells goes a lot faster. Only use "Protected" Li-Ion cells....and AW's Dealer's thread is pretty much what we all recommend. There is a more complex charging solution using the Voltcraft cradles, but I would not recommend you start out with that.
 
Last edited:
Excellent posts. Thank you everyone for being a tremendous help. This is a much more complicated hobby than one would think!
 

Latest posts

Top