Why do LED lights still suck and why do I still use incans or HIDs, your opinions or disagreements please.

AMRaider

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I remember back around 2006 or 2007 I had some early cool tinted LED lights that were all the rage. I was looking at something at a distance and I could not figure out what it was for quite awhile. I didn't want to get closer. Then I took out my E2e and turned it on and could instantly recognize it. That's why LED's are silly to me and I still EDC xenon incans.
I remember as a child, I would often have a SAK, a handful of quarters (for payphones and vending machines), and a Mini-Mag Solitaire in my pocket. When I went off to school, I kept a black Mini-Mag AA in my desk. At the time, one of my housemates had a Surefire Z2 (it was amazingly bright for it's size), and after graduation, I ended up buying one myself.

Some years later, white LEDs came to market (Luxeon, I remember), and the cool white light was almost magical to me, but it did not quite replace the warm light from incandescents. Now of course you can find warm tinted LEDs (To my eyes, some of HDS custom offerings 3000K/3500K are very close to a Z2 P60 Xenon)*, and I do use LEDs more often than incandesecents, but I still pick up Z2 on occasion. Part of that is certainly nostalgia, but I find the visibility of objects using a P60 Xenon to be excellent even though it is not as bright as most modern LED offerings. It's a little bulky for me to EDC, but in addition to other lights, I do keep a Z2 in the car.

*Proper engineering (optics/electronics/reflector) seem to make a big difference. Even though the P60 is only ~60 Lumens, and the warmer HDS LEDs are "only" 180 Lumens, I can just see better with them compared to some brighter LEDs.
 

defloyd77

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We're most sensitive to green light. That doesn't mean green LED's are the best for navigation.

There are certain LED's that mimic the color temperature of the sun, that doesn't mean they have the same overall spectral output as the sun or that of a highly driven incan. That's where LED's fall flat. And make the world look flat.
Well cyan to be specific, which whataya know, incandescents and fire aren't the strongest in that part of the spectrum.

Yes, there are certain LEDs that have a sunlike or incanlike CCT that lack their spectral output, but there are also those that don't and those are the ones make the world look round as it should.
 

ampdude

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I remember as a child, I would often have a SAK, a handful of quarters (for payphones and vending machines), and a Mini-Mag Solitaire in my pocket. When I went off to school, I kept a black Mini-Mag AA in my desk. At the time, one of my housemates had a Surefire Z2 (it was amazingly bright for it's size), and after graduation, I ended up buying one myself.

Some years later, white LEDs came to market (Luxeon, I remember), and the cool white light was almost magical to me, but it did not quite replace the warm light from incandescents. Now of course you can find warm tinted LEDs (To my eyes, some of HDS custom offerings 3000K/3500K are very close to a Z2 P60 Xenon)*, and I do use LEDs more often than incandesecents, but I still pick up Z2 on occasion. Part of that is certainly nostalgia, but I find the visibility of objects using a P60 Xenon to be excellent even though it is not as bright as most modern LED offerings. It's a little bulky for me to EDC, but in addition to other lights, I do keep a Z2 in the car.

*Proper engineering (optics/electronics/reflector) seem to make a big difference. Even though the P60 is only ~60 Lumens, and the warmer HDS LEDs are "only" 180 Lumens, I can just see better with them compared to some brighter LEDs.

That is why I still EDC an E2e Executive after over 20 years. It's basically a P60 in a more compact package. It does what I need it to do.
 
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We're most sensitive to green light. That doesn't mean green LED's are the best for navigation.

There are certain LED's that mimic the color temperature of the sun, that doesn't mean they have the same overall spectral output as the sun or that of a highly driven incan. That's where LED's fall flat. And make the world look flat.

A 4000K high CRI LED, anything 90+, will allow you to see the world in far more color diversity than any incan ever could. They lack the blue content necessary. Color Gamut Area of high CRI higher CCT LEDs is better than Incan is. They most definitely do not look flat.
 
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Studies say otherwise with the results showing color temperatures closer to that of the sun (in other words cool white) enabled drivers to see more and gave more time to react. This should be of no surprise, humans are diurnal by nature and our vision has evolved to use the sun optimally, not fire and definitely not incandescents, which are really a quite recent thing in the grand scheme of things.

They ain't gonna pass a law banning the use of light deemed to provide the most useable and safe output.

Yes, and no.

Higher CCT light allows for faster reaction times at low lighting levels in the peripheral of our vision, not in the center cone. Moon light is appro 4000K for reference. Ideally a headlight would be warmer in the central portion of the beam, and cooler on the outer parts of the beam, however, that needs to be balances against disability glare for other drivers.
 

fivemega

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If short run time and lack of rechargeability bothering you, there are many options to upgrade and modernize your favorite incandescent and LED flashlight.
 

vicv

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I still believe the absolute height of flashlight engineering was the a2 aviator. Nothing else comes close. Sure leds are brighter, but new lights are boring. They just keep getting brighter. I don't need brighter. I want quality built innovative lights. I feel the marketplace has basically been stagnant for the last decade. Nothing new or interesting anymore. Do love my steam light polystinger though. And 1L-1AA. Oh and my surfire lx2
 

vicv

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Agree with this. Visual perception seems like such a varied and nebulous thing from person to person, I don't think it's possible to objectively state "This is the best" for everyone and everything.

EDIT: and if you really want to see people going nuts arguing about color science and color tones, go check out a digital photography site or forum and look at the Sony vs. Canon vs. Nikon vs. Fuji topics. Holy guacamole Batman!
People actually argue when anyone can see Fuji in the best? Weird
 

vicv

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I have one, picked it up in Dubai on the way to Afghanistan in 2009. Never could get used to the LED/incan mix. went back to my Streamlight TL2. Now it's LED's all the way baby.
Ya if you prefer led great. That wasn't the point. The post I referred to stated incans are only good for 3-5 minutes until the batteries deplete. The a2 is regulated therefore fixes that. Baby
 

Stress_Test

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Well it's no substitute for an A2, but I've found that using li-ion cells for any incan bulb gives kind of a pseudo-regulated output thanks to the inherent flat-ish discharge curve of li-ion.

A little while back, I put an old old 3-cell Mag bulb into a 2C Mag and ran it off a single li-ion. Added a faceted reflector and a sand-papered lens (for diffusion) and I gotta say that was pretty nice for indoor use. Bulb suddenly went open after a while though. No poof, just wouldn't light up one time when I hit the switch.

In fairness, that bulb was over 20 years old!
 

Stress_Test

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For 2C M*g use 2x18650 and 6D bulb.

I wish, but 2x18650 are too long for the tailcap to even screw on. I think at one point there was a short extender available just for that purpose. I do have a 2D Mag though that I have used with the 2x18650 and 9-volt bulb combo.

I was wishing for a 3-cell C Mag incan a little while back but it was already too late; couldn't find any available. Not new, anyway.

I do have 2-cell and 4-cell C Mags though, so I'm glad I bought them when I did.
 

vicv

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I wish, but 2x18650 are too long for the tailcap to even screw on. I think at one point there was a short extender available just for that purpose. I do have a 2D Mag though that I have used with the 2x18650 and 9-volt bulb combo.

I was wishing for a 3-cell C Mag incan a little while back but it was already too late; couldn't find any available. Not new, anyway.

I do have 2-cell and 4-cell C Mags though, so I'm glad I bought them when I did.
Ya I think you can make a 2c work but you need to remove the tail cap spring and make your own short piece, plus remove the ano. If not, I also believe fivemega sells a deep tail cap. I just use a 3c. I got lucky and got one used. And another one brand new. The used one is using 2 18650s and six cell bulb and aluminum orange pillar reflector. The new one has 2X 21700 and a 7.2v 1.8A tad bulb for around 350 lumens and a smooth Alu reflector. Both have bypassed tail so springs and switch springs. They're both perfect. I still think the A2 is the greatest light ever made, but that is just because of the engineering that went into it. And it's regulated. And it has a low beam. But for walking around, nothing can be a 3C with those mods. I actually prefer my 6c magnum star bulb. Around 200 lumens in that big reflector is about perfect. The 350 lumen bulb is kinda silly. It's fun but it's just so bright and intense
 
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fivemega

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You already missed these but possible someone has some extra.
I wish, but 2x18650 are too long for the tailcap to even screw on. I think at one point there was a short extender available just for that purpose.

I was wishing for a 3-cell C Mag incan a little while back but it was already too late; couldn't find any available.
If you can modify the tail spring short extension tubes will work for 2x18650 system otherwise use 50mm extension tube and go for 2x21700.
 
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