64458 bulb advice

[mr.squatch]

Ok, I've finally settled on my choice of bulb for the monster duo projects. Curious to hear other people's opinions and stories on using this bulb. The 64458 has better mid range (overdriven) numbers than most others that are maxed out at 21-22v. I plan to run it at 18.5v and hope to get around 8000 lumens out the front. Have most of the parts to start, should be quite an adventure. I'll post up my results, you guys post up what you think of the idea. Also looking for a mag switch solution for this lil monster if there are any. Thanks to Lux and Jimmy for the past posts and info/research. Can't wait to see this baby burn.


g

 

[LuxLuthor]

It will work at that voltage, but it wants to go a bit higher if possible...like 20V. You need to get the Judco 10A switch. Do a search for that word, I have posted about it, and a link to ordering it. Respect the current, and don't push it for too long. Let head heat be your guide.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

What parts do you have?

Not sure if you will get 8000 lumens TBH, I think the figures for this may be a bit off,
If you look at this thread
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=179748
the 64623 and the 64458 the lux readings arn't far off each other, and the 623 is said to be 3000 lumens.

Who Know what the real lumens value is, but the 458 is bright, screams at 21V at the pins. :devil:


What host/ cells do you have in mind?

 

[mr.squatch]

Well, my easy cells plan fell thru, so now I'm in search of some that will work. Jimmy recommend I use A123 or eOne Moli cells. I don't know much about either, more research to do I guess I'm still set on the bulb, got a switch figured out now (thanks guys). If you know of a good source for either of these batts, or a good source of info on either lemme know. It's googletime I guess. :candle:

g

 

[JimmyM]

If you use 5 eOne Molis that's 21V off the charger and 18-18.5V nominal. I'd skip the Judco switch and use a MOSFET. It will have lower resistance which will translate to less heat. The IRF1324-7P will work fine at these voltages. Use a 1.5K resistor from the switch to the gate and a 3.3K resistor from the gate to ground. This will keep the gate voltage from going too high. I have 2 of these MOSFETs at home and an evil thought just hit me. A Dual MOSFET "Super switch". I know, people will tell me that it's stupid. You don't need more than 1. But I'm kind of prone to overkill.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

I have built a 64458 with 5 emoli, ( and 6 but thats to much without some way of holding back some juice)

and it is great, but you need a 7C or 6D mag to get it all in.

I could probably get it all in a 5D just, but it would involve no stock switch, and a lot of moving things about to shoe horn it in there.


jimjones3630, sells them
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=178188

Petrev, Jim and I have have all played with the 64458 with emolis. Have a Google search for that or search under our user names and you'll find some info

 

[mr.squatch]

I'm thinking this is the way to go, 6d mag with 5 emoli. Can I fit em in my 6c? I need to do some measuring tonite. I'm not too good with figuring things like resistors and mosfets but I can solder really well. I liked the idea of the disk somebody posted up where I simply solder it in under the base and wire it from the switch to the bulb. I think I could manage the mosfet/resistor way if I had a picture to go by and a parts list so I didn't mess that up. lol. Thanks guys for all the help, My monster is coming together nicely. :thumbsup:


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[JimmyM]

If you can solder, you can build a MOSFET switch. They're really quite simple.
I'll see if I can etch a board for you this weekend. Then it's as easy as soldering your own parts on it. You can use SMD resistors (tiny chips) or regular thru-hole resistors.

 

[RickB]

I have thought about building a 64458-based light for a while. How about a quad-bored 4D mag, with a 16-cell Elite 1700 battery pack (if LuxLuthor will make one)? That gives a nominal 19.2 volts. If it really is necessary to push it further, you could add the 17th cell like Lux does for the 15.6 volt packs...

-Rick

 

[mr.squatch]

Ah man that'd be awesome, thanks for all the help Jimmy, you're the man


g

If you can solder, you can build a MOSFET switch. They're really quite simple.
I'll see if I can etch a board for you this weekend. Then it's as easy as soldering your own parts on it. You can use SMD resistors (tiny chips) or regular thru-hole resistors.

 

[mr.squatch]

Are there AA nimh batteries that can handle the power? I have eneloops and sanyo 1700's right now, enough to make an 18v pack out of either. hmmm



g

 

[RickB]

Are there AA nimh batteries that can handle the power? I have eneloops and sanyo 1700's right now, enough to make an 18v pack out of either. hmmm

Well, according to LuxLuthor's testing, at 19.2 volts, the 64458 will draw between 10.1 and 10.3 amps.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2218688

The load graph at CheapBatteryPacks shows that, with a 10 amp draw, the Elite 1700 AAs will hold over 1.2 volts for over half their capacity.
http://www.cheapbatterypacks.com/cellinfo.asp?invid=ELITE1700AA

According to SilverFox's testing, the Titanium Powermax 1800 AAs are probably the next best bet, although some have reported quality control issues with them.
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=920843

Unfortunately, it looks like this load is a bit past the edge for Eneloops... I can't find any info for Sanyo 1700s.

I'm kinda waiting for Lux to chime in with his thoughts on the feasibility of a 16-cell quad-stack AA pack...

-Rick

 

[mr.squatch]

I'm looking at a 5d mag with 3wide AA's for a total of 15 cells. That should put me in the right volt range and also give me the host to later go to 5x emoli's. With the cost of the elite 1700's x15 I think I may just skip that step and go straight to the emolis. Picking up the light host tomorrow, then to the machine shop that should gimme a day or two to decide.


g

 

[LuxLuthor]

.....<Lux enters, stage left>........oh yeah, you need the higher current cells, exactly as you identified, RickB. The best I have found for high current output in AA size are the Elite 1700mAh from CBP. I have made 16 cell packs for a 4D...even a 21 cell pack for my Elephant Mag (3 stacks of 7 wide)

The Sanyo and Eneloops will not handle that 10A range of current output very well, if at all. Another option is the 2/3A Elite 1500mAh in a tribore Mag D. If you want to get real creative, you can also use the newer A123/Emoli 18650 size safe Li-Ion cells in a bi-bore (or diffusely bored) Mag D.

In a 5D/6D you have options like Emoli, or A123 regular size.

 

[Raoul_Duke]

I'm looking at a 5d mag with 3wide AA's for a total of 15 cells. That should put me in the right volt range and also give me the host to later go to 5x emoli's. With the cost of the elite 1700's x15 I think I may just skip that step and go straight to the emolis. Picking up the light host tomorrow, then to the machine shop that should gimme a day or two to decide.


g

5 emoli and 5D dont fit.

5 x 60mm D cells = 300mm
5 x emoli ( 70mm) = 350mm

you can get an extra ~20mm putting the emoli in the tailcap, but still have to find 30mm.

i managed buy removing the switch, and using a different switch, but its not perfect, and the cells are realy near the hot end if that concerns you.

You could get a FM 37mm extention, or a 6D

 

[mr.squatch]

5 emoli and 5D dont fit.

I only did the math ten times, you can't expect me to get it right

That's ok, I found a red 6d host today

g

 

[jimjones3630]

With the lowest resistance in the switch the 458 gets hot. Too hot to hold after 10min continous run.

Nice thing about a 6D has plenty room for insulation.

 

[mr.squatch]

I don't expect to run it over a minute at any one time. More of a fun light than a user I found a beauty of a red 6d host to put it all in. Had no idea til recently that red was available in 5 and 6 d's. Should be able to start this lil project by next weekend. Have yet to search for a source for the 64458 bulb yet, any points in the right direction? Thanks to everyone for all the help, can't wait to see the end result of this project


g

 

[jimjones3630]

here is one

http://www.bulbconnection.com/ViewItem/bcrw/itmid/1666/oc/64458S/item.html

 

[JimmyM]

The 458 I built using 4Ah 1/2Ds could run for 8 minutes before it got too hot to hold at the head.

I'll see if I can etch that MOSFET switch board today. I'm in the home stretch of finishing the latest batch of softstarters. That's eating up all my time.