742 Torch Lumens! Most beautiful runtime curve. NEOFAB Legion II MC-E review added

[TITAN1833]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

This makes no sense at all! I do not know of ANY commercially available lights that are overdriven, or driven beyond the specs for the LED. The idea that the consumer should be "trusted" to not run a light with an overdriven LED for too long (as if the consumer would even know what that is) is absurd. The engineering behind a commercial product has to be to try make it safe and reliable for all users.

If you want to sell a product like this I would have to ask how you expect to have a viable business model.

If the purchaser wants to modify the light, at their own risk and with the understanding that this completely voids the warranty that's another story...

William

I totally respect your views,however I have to disagree there are lights out there that warn or recommend not to use on max for to long one example it the Haiku from Don McGizmo and also plenty of lights do also warn about inserting other batteries other than the recommended.So it seems a disclaimer is all that is needed maybe :thinking:

 

[Kiessling]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

The Haiku can be run on high for a full burn without any problems. Don even did some temperature monitoring with a FLIR cam or whatever this thing is called.

Using other batteries is a "misuse" of the item and falls in the respionsability of the consumer. Offering an item that has its own destruction built in requires informed customers, and you really can't count on that.

bernie

 

[Alan B]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Just because an LED is run within spec'd current does not mean the heatsink can handle the heat in all situations. Running an LED slightly beyond spec'd current on a big heatsink works fine, and there are reports that many manufacturers do that to achieve performance in some high performance models.

It is really a system issue. Can the system operate safely and reliably the way it is sold and shipped to the customer. Some products place operating limits on the user, and it is up to the user to follow them. Many products we buy cannot operate "continuously".

 

[evenchaos]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

This makes no sense at all! I do not know of ANY commercially available lights that are overdriven, or driven beyond the specs for the LED.

Em, cpf fav: Dereelight DBS/CL1H pills? The XR-E emitters spec a max current of 1.0A, while the pills drive them at 1.2A.

 

[TITAN1833]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

The Haiku can be run on high for a full burn without any problems. Don even did some temperature monitoring with a FLIR cam or whatever this thing is called.

Yes you maybe right,but I was just quoting what I read from Don

I do not think the Haiku should be used for long durations on high and especially if it is not held in the hand for thermal relief. I did to a thermal test leaving the light on high and unattended:Anyway you are right and maybe Neoseikan will decide on what is best for his cutomers and in the long run what's best for him

 

[easilyled]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

This makes no sense at all! I do not know of ANY commercially available lights that are overdriven, or driven beyond the specs for the LED. The idea that the consumer should be "trusted" to not run a light with an overdriven LED for too long (as if the consumer would even know what that is) is absurd. The engineering behind a commercial product has to be to try make it safe and reliable for all users.

If you want to sell a product like this I would have to ask how you expect to have a viable business model.

If the purchaser wants to modify the light, at their own risk and with the understanding that this completely voids the warranty that's another story...

William

I have to respectfully disagree with you. If you had been around CPF for as long as I have, you would have come across
a vast no. of lights that heat up quite dramatically and quite fast.

It was common knowledge in all the discussions not to run them on high/burst for too long.

Very few of these lights had built in thermal sensors or any others for stepping down or shutting off as I said before.

Why don't you list all the well-known lights that do?

Neoseiken was only talking about running the led at slightly over the recommended maximum current and then
decided to reduce this to the maximum recommended current on the high setting anyway. Hardly a liability issue as far as I can see.

Surefire L4s could toast your hand after 10 minutes with the old Lux Vs.

If you use a Draco on burst for longer than a minute or so, its understood that you the customer is taking a risk because of the tiny light
being much too small to sustain the Flupic burst setting.

The same applies to nearly all the Orb lights.

I could list examples ad infinitum.

None of these manufacturers seem to be worried about any liability.

They issue warnings and then its up to us to use our common sense.

 

[wbp]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

OK, does no one read? I said "commercially available". I know there are LOTs of lights around here that do all sorts of things, and custom builders are free to do what they want and either accept the responsibility or let buyer beware. I know, for example, that if I run my Creemator on high without holding it or providing some means of cooling it that it's gonna fry the LED. Some of the Gatlights will cook themselves if run on high for very long at all. Etc etc etc. I don't consider any of these to be commercial products. Maybe NeoFab doesn't consider the L2 to be a commercial product either, I don't know where they are going with this.

Please don't talk to me about being around CPF for however long. Hanging out here is only part of life, and just because someone hasn't been here all that long has little to do with their total experience. I've got thousands of products out there in the world with my name on them and I think I know a thing or two about engineering for reliability, although I'll readily admit that I'm still learning after over 40 years...

I think pushing an XR-E to 1.2A when the heatsinking is there and works is one thing. People here are asking for 4A on an MC-E rated for 2.8 and if the poor sap that buys one doesn't know about this being burst mode and not to do it for too long fries their LED, that's their problem. I think that's a tad silly. That's my opinion and I'm going to stick with it, at least until my brain fries due to all the excess current from too many hours trying to keep up with all you CPF experts...

Now please try to read this with your sense of humor turned on... where's my tin foil hat? Oh yeah - :tinfoil:

William

 

[evenchaos]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

I think pushing an XR-E to 1.2A when the heatsinking is there and works is one thing. People here are asking for 4A on an MC-E rated for 2.8 and if the poor sap that buys one doesn't know about this being burst mode and not to do it for too long fries their LED, that's their problem.

Yes, I would seriously want to see it possible to have a (hidden?) 4A turbo mode. Why?, 700-900 lumen output is already too passée for me :nana: after having an ACE & ED-P72 light and frequently using it on high (whether needed or not ). I am by NO means advocating having it driven at 4A for the general public, but for CPF'ers I think it would be another matter, especially if its not offered as a default option (i.e. only to those who know and request a higher level). There was a reason why I mentioned the timed Zebralight turbo mode - where the light drops out of high output after 10mins (or whatever its set at) .

Now given the fact that Neoseikan has said its changeable via a resistor, then I am happy as long as the circuit board is accessible and NOT enclosed, press fitted, sealed with extra strength locktight or welded shut. As far as I am concerned, the issue is now closed though I presume some other people will want to see it driven at moderately higher levels e.g. 3-3.2A by default. For me, its now back to hoping that Neoseikan comes through with a better reflector and keeps the light affordable so I can get it once it becomes available.

Oh, and as a side node, I know the 4A is the max that Neoseikan's regulator can supply from one of his previous posts (assuming things haven't changed on his side) but whether by coincidence or not, that happens to be the max current that would be needed to fully drive four separate Q5/R2 emitters to spec. Those would be the "same" dice that are in the MC-E emitter, so afaik, the lower current rating is due to expected thermal performance of having 4 dies so close together in a single package.

 

[easilyled]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

OK, does no one read? I said "commercially available".
William

Surefire are commercially available yet it would have been inadvisable to leave the old lux V lights on high for 1 hour
at a stretch or more. (especially L4 but to a lesser extent L5 and L6 too)

Please don't talk to me about being around CPF for however long. Hanging out here is only part of life, and just because someone hasn't been here all that long has little to do with their total experience. I've got thousands of products out there in the world with my name on them and I think I know a thing or two about engineering for reliability, although I'll readily admit that I'm still learning after over 40 years...

I'm sure you know a huge amount about many things. I can see that.
However I think that it helps to see the evolution of leds across the generations and the lights themselves too to have a good understanding about what is expected of both the led and the user.
I had come to realise long ago that if overdriven, the lifetime of an led is compromised considerably and because of that I never leave any of my lights on for long when I feel any heat.
I feel that the same principle applies whether the led-light is custom or commercially based.
I would certainly consider the Legion II to be at least semi-custom anyway, since neoseiken is taking so much feedback from us and using so many of our criteria and desires to build the light around.

I think pushing an XR-E to 1.2A when the heatsinking is there and works is one thing. People here are asking for 4A on an MC-E rated for 2.8 and if the poor sap that buys one doesn't know about this being burst mode and not to do it for too long fries their LED, that's their problem. I think that's a tad silly. That's my opinion and I'm going to stick with it, at least until my brain fries due to all the excess current from too many hours trying to keep up with all you CPF experts.

I agree with you that 4A would be excessive. 2.8A is fine as far as I am concerned.
What I don't agree with is that the onus is on neoseiken to put all sorts of sophisticated built-in protection
mechanisms into his light. After all, I want to be able to afford it. :nana:
A disclaimer about not having the light on high for more than 10 minutes continuously should be enough,
like it always has been.
In led lights of these outputs (which by the way, there have never been up until recently), the second level is probably more than enough for most uses, most of the time anyway.

 

[neoseikan]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Hi. People. Some new photos & my idea about the heat problem:

Some of you said about 4A driven MC-E/P7 lights, I think they are not regulated, are they? If there isn't a fully regulated driver in such a light,
the current will reduce as the battery voltage. So, the heat from LED will be less and less.

But a regulated driver is another story. No matter how hot the LED and driver is, the current will always be 4A. When you compare different runtime charts, you will find the total output from regulated/non-regulated lights are so different, so is the heat.

We should remember this.

(pics moved to the first post.)

 

[AardvarkSagus]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Definitely like the OP much better. The doughnut is still there, but it is FAR less noticeable. I think a lot of people are going to prefer that reflector even at the cost of a little throw.

 

[AlexGT]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Wow nice light!

What colors will be offered? HA Nat and HA black? Would really want to see the different parts to match in color

What are the dimensions of it? Lenght? Bezel diameter? Body diameter? Weight?

Can I suggest to add a hole for a lanyard? Tritium slots?

What is the water resistance? I would like to see at least 10 meters.

How positive is the selector ring? I assume that is the switch to turn it on right?

Price?

Thanks!
AlexGT

 

[AardvarkSagus]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

I'm not sure what he is offering for the anodizing, but it appears to be black. The reason the parts don't "match" is actually because the bezel and tailcap are made from Stainless Steel to provide better durability.

I know water is going to be at least a little bit of an issue though because of the design of the selector ring, and yes it is the on switch as well.

 

[Jarl]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Every time I read this thread, the light is that much better, and I have that much less money.... *facepalm*

 

[AlexGT]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Neoseikan, do you have the outdoor pictures in a bigger format?, I wan't to compare them, would like to see the ones that have the city skyline and what appears to be a line of trees being illuminated, how far are those trees?

Thanks!
AlexGT

 

[neoseikan]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Neoseikan, do you have the outdoor pictures in a bigger format?, I wan't to compare them, would like to see the ones that have the city skyline and what appears to be a line of trees being illuminated, how far are those trees?

Thanks!
AlexGT

Hi. I have the RAW file if you want it.
These trees are about 7 meter away.
I can not find a wide dark area.

 

[65535]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Hey neo it's great to see you at this.

Your lights have evolved amazingly since the original Spartan. It's great work.


If you ever need another review you got my #.

 

[Bushman5]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

how many lumens on high setting?

 

[neoseikan]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

how many lumens on high setting?

Waiting for the lumens test...

 

[Bushman5]

Re: NEOFAB Legion II, the powerful MC-E light &COMP with M1X, pic heavy!

Cheers. I quite like the machining