A few dumb basic questions, please help !!!

[Kiessling]

Since I am slowly gathering some knowledge about HIDs, I have a few burning and maybe dumb questions:

- cars usually use 35W HIDs? Metal Halide "medium arc"?
- cars use those on high or low beams or both?
- meaning that the average power of our HID searchlights is about the same as one car HID headlight?
- they even use the same DS2 bulbs?
- will it damage the bulb if I turn it on and off again before it reaches peak brightness?
- Xenon short-arcs start quicker and have a higher color temperature than Metal Halides, but have a shorter bulb life and tend to explode easier?
- what is the average cost of a replacement Metal Halide and Xenon short arc 35W bulb?
- what is the difference between the Metal Halide bulb in the KenRad UDL-35 with a more reddish tinge and the bluish car HID bulbs?

If someone with knowledge could chime in I'd really be happy.
thanx /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

bernhard

 

[Deleted member 684]

I do not know much and what I do know of may not be right, but I'll see if I can answer any of your questions.

- cars usually use 35W HIDs? Metal Halide "medium arc"?

35 watts HID, yes. Metal Halide Medium Arc, :shrugs:

- cars use those on high or low beams or both?

:shrugs: No idea, sorry.

- meaning that the average power of our HID searchlights is about the same as one car HID headlight?

Yes

- they even use the same DS2 bulbs?

Yes. Also if I didn't remember wrongly, the bulb can be pushed to 50 watts by the right ballast.

- will it damage the bulb if I turn it on and off again before it reaches peak brightness?

That depends on the ballast, some ballast can do hot re-strike as you have mentioned, but some can't do hot re-strikeand have no protection against having the power turned on and off it which means if you're not careful, you might toast your bulb.

- Xenon short-arcs start quicker and have a higher color temperature than Metal Halides, but have a shorter bulb life and tend to explode easier?

If I'm not wrong, Xenon Short Arcs take more power to start. Bulb life wise, I think they are the same. As for the tendency to explode.... I don't think anyone has reported an explosion. Yet. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

- what is the average cost of a replacement Metal Halide and Xenon short arc 35W bulb?

The price I can remember for a UK Light cannon's replacement bulb is around $80 USD. Extra-polating from there, it should cost around $130 USD? Just a guess.

- what is the difference between the Metal Halide bulb in the KenRad UDL-35 with a more reddish tinge and the bluish car HID bulbs?

:shrugs:

Hope I've been of limited help. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Kiessling]

of course, thanx a lot, Nerd!

this leaves the following questions:

- HIDs in cars in low and/or high beams?
- will the bulb be damaged if turned off before reaching peak brightness?
- cost of 35W DS2 bulbs?
- why has the bulb in the UDL-35 a reddish tinge opposed to the blueish white in car HIDs while both are Metal Halide?

thanx again ...

bernhard

 

[LEDagent]

-HIDs in cars are only used for low/standard beams. The high beam is still a regular bulb, but usualy with a more focused beam pattern.

-Your HID torch has a reddish tinge to it because of the bulb's rated color temp and possibly the way the reflector focuses the light. I think your previous review stated the bulb had a color temp of ~4500K. The bluish tint you see on OEM HID units in cars use a bulb with 5400K color temps. Some companies, i think, are moving to the 4500K color because of color preference and I THINK they are brighter (lumens) than the 5400K bulbs.

I believe most OEM HID units use a Phillips or Bosch ballast/bulb configuration, and ALL of them are driven at 35W. I don't think any US car models have anything higher than that because of DOT regulations.

-As for the price... This website XenonFactory.com lists a Phillips D2S 6000K bulb for $145.00...For ONE bulb. They are rated for 2000-3000 hours, so unless you drop the bulb and break it, you shouldn't have to worry too much about replacing them anytime soon.

-I don't know if turning off the HID light before complete brightness will damage things. My guess would be no. There is no filament to stress from repeated strobing, and the tolerances these bulbs endure in cars and underwater lights, i'm sure the little ball of gas can hold it's own. But this is merely a guess. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

...I hope this helped

P.S. I envy your new HID lights! Getting that light 2nd hand for ~600 dollars is a steal! The battery setup and construction looks better than the MC X990, but it does lack the ability to focus. Either way, GREAT choice!

 

[phyhsuts]

Turning the light off before reaching full out put does not damagethe bulb. What they don't like is being turned on and off too often. The bulb goes through a very high power phase at turn on as the efficacy is low before the metal halide salts reach high enough temperature to vapourise. The high power is to make the lamp seem more "instant on" than otherwise. This is hard on the electrodes.
Most D2 bulbs are 4200-4500 K. Certainly the Philips and Osram ones are. The Koreans make D2 bulbs from 3800 to 10,000K! The higher CCT ones are less efficace though. Note that at turn on the light is about 6000K. This is the CCT of pure Xenon arc. When the salts vapourise, then the colour will change to the design colour of the particular bulb.
I have no idea why the KenRad one is redder than normal. Most cars have 4500K D2s. It is possible the KenRad you have has a 3800K lamp.

 

[Deleted member 684]

I recall seeing a HID equipped car go over a hump. I saw the light change from a nice white to a purplish red, only for a while, before turning back to a nice white. I think there were some salts that have not vapourised or something. Looks ghostly if you understand what I mean.

 

[mattheww50]

Many HID lamps are sensitive about arc orientation, and the arc does have mass, so if you accelerate it suddenly (like going over a speed bump), you can displace the arc, and in effect, temporarily destabilize it. For example many of the 175 watt HID lamps are designed for either horizontal orientation, or vertical orientation, but NOT both. Some are Base down, other are base up. The actual configuration is usually part of the part number, i.e. a 175 watt Multi Vapor II lamp may come in several different configuration depending upon the intended use.

The problem with hot start usually isn't so much the lamp as the ballast/igniter takes a beating.

HID lamps rarely explode because they are double envelopes,
the arc is inside one tube (not even necessarily glass), which is inside the globe itself, and most are designed to shut down if the outer envelope fails.

 

[Kiessling]

wow!
thanx to all of you, what a great help!
one post on CPF is better than a lot of reading and searching elesewhere ...

Laurence, I am very satisfied with it so far. it is extremely solid and should be better in this aspect than the McCulloch albeit less bright/focussed I think. What I like the most is that you just can't do anything wrong with it ...

phyhsuts, the bulb should be 4500K, and it is not THAT red, look at the beam shots. I was ust curious about that since I usually associated "blue" with a HID light. Personally I like this red very much, it is the first light I ever saw that makes this and it looks kinda cool, now that we're all used to incan yellow, luxeon urin green and pure white as well as LED blue ... quite unusual. In the field however this cannot be noticed, you just see it on a white wall.

once again, thanx all!

bernhard

 

[Zelandeth]

Hmm, there are a couple of movies of (admittedly much larger scale) HID lamps during testing (Osram if I remember correctly), failing catastrophically, and exploding (one in which the outer envelope contains things, and one where it doesn't...very glad I wasn't standing under that when it went!). They're slowed down a lot, so a lot of detail is visible.

This isn't strictly on topic...but I don't think it's totally off-topic either! Just thought it might be of interest.

These can be found on the movies page of Lamptech.

http://www.lamptech.co.uk/

 

[Kiessling]

gulp. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
does not look too nice. fortunately mine is behind a 10mm glass ...
bernhard

 

[Ray_of_Light]

One more thing about HID bulbs. They must get some form of cooling, but not much. When and HID bulb is overcooled, you get that bluish hue. When it is undercooled (and thus is overheating) the bulb emits a reddish light. In this condition (overheating) the bulb life is seriously shortened.
Some professional bulbs uses a thermocouple (temperature sensor) built in the bulb to correctly drive the cooling fan, or to help the design of the lighting element.

Anthony

 

[Kiessling]

Anthony,
I hope you are not traing to say that the reddish tinge produced by the Metal Halide bulb in
this ight
means it would be too hot?
and is the "afterglow" after shutting the light off normal?
(see pic in first post)

bernhard