Action Light

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
I have been playing with my new camera (Minolta DiMAGE 7, 2500x2000) way to much. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know I've read somewhere your post about buying a SLR digital camera. Nice camera Brock.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
And they wasted all their time searching for batteries .-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahahahahahaha!!!.... Now this one nearly dropped me to the floor. LOL!........hahahahahah!!!!..

Here's my short story about my search for this elusive Li-SO2 battery.

I started my search for the battery at places outside of HDS because I wanted to know how easy it is to find one, so I used the internet search engines like yahoo and google. None.

Called up and talked to Alex of Inner Mountain Outfitters (IMO), they have none and don't know when batteries are coming.

Then I called-up the battery manufacturer (SAFT) and politely told by a staff I cannot buy direct from them and she gave me phone numbers of their dealer DC Battery.

When I called-up DC Battery a lady answered saying a different company name. I thought I got the wrong number but it turned out according to the lady that they were bought out by NEXERGY and carries the new company name. Back to the battery, I asked NEXERGY if they have the Li-SO2 D battery in stock and she said they have them but the minimum order for that battery is $200.

But, she was kind enough to direct me to another store where I could buy just 2 pcs. of that precious battery.

That store is Battery Plus in Columbus, Ohio. Dialed the phone again and somebody answered, again I said my script about my search for Li_OS2 D batteries and he told me he'll do a search and will call me back in an hour. He never called back.

Finally I sent an email to HDS for 2 batteries and Henry responded that he have them and ready to ship. HDS is the only place I can buy Li-SO2 D battery. Is this a good thing or bad thing?

That was my story of "The search for 2 Li-SO2 D batteries". End of story.

- verge -

 

[BKO]

Try these guy`s,
Coldspot Feed`s
They are a dog mushing supplier here in Fairbanks,Alaska.

Those cell`s are used quite frequently due thier cold weather performance,and from what i`ve been hearing here,thier price is good.

------Bill-----------------------------------

 

[PeLu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
Here's my short story about my search for this elusive Li-SO2 battery.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I got several from HDS systems, but wanted also to have a source at least in Europe. When an Alcatel sales representative came to at work (for a completely different reason, but he wanted to make business with me in the $100,000 range), I told him to find out a source for these cells (as SAFT is an Alcatel sub company). So he did the work for me and I got an electronics distributor in Vienna. But I had to do a minum order of 40 and when I wanted to get the exact type (PTC fused and no tabs) I had to order 160.
So I ordered the 40 cells (tabs are easy to remove), which looked not too bad, as 8 more people ordered an ActionLight (to the already existing 5 ones). You know the rest of the story: The V2 ActionLights have now a delay of at least 2 years, but other people needed some cells for other lamps (Polaris). So I have only half or so of them left over now.

Of course I could have ordered them all the time at HDS.

And, BTW, there is an Alkaline version available almost from the beginning.
Further you could use an 4AA/D cell adapter, although this option is not officially supported.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The cat is out of the bag!!!

Can't blame other owner's shyness to have its lightbeam compared to other LED lights.

BIG THANK YOU to Stingmon for the photos and BIG THANK YOU to Ted the Led for loaning his Action Light and enlighten us here on CPF.

Henry of HDS really have to do something about improving Action Lights brightness and battery requirement for the light.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
Nobody will spend this money on light with old LEDs. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn right! I'm not spending $349.00 for a flashlight just as bright as TREK-7, with aluminum body, fancy electronics, and hard to find special battery.

The first and foremost function of the flashlight is to give light. That's the primary consideration I'm paying for, and I pay more because flashlight gives more light (brighter). I consider the main bulk of the price I'm paying for is for the lightbeam not the casing and electronics.

The same reason why I willingly (and with a smile) pay more for SureFire flashlights because they're brighter and with nice flashlight body as added feature. SureFire's main and primary selling point is "nice clean bright light" not the nice flashlight body.

Other features like bomb-proof case and fancy electronics come second consideration for my money and its not the deciding factor for me to spend $349 for a flashlight as bright as a $50 light.

HDS probably got away with the $349.00 price because there were no serious competitions yet at the time.

Good concept though and I'd buy one with an improved brightness and standard/rechargeable battery compatible version.

- verge -

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

news flash! The Action Light will work on a regular D-cell alkaline battery! For days..(just jam a washer or tinfoil to take up the extra space)
..right, not so bright, but it's a very durable light. The color balance is something (last I checked) you can see at the HDS site - comparison photos are posted, http://www.hdssystems.com/NSSLEDArticle.htm (scroll down) -- (further) --

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Action Light V2 with all the mods Henry is doing to it looks very promising.

From email I got from Henry, brightness issue is taken cared of and it will run using standard batteries.

Now... with those improvements I think it's worth the price and Henry will get my money.

- verge -

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

in case I wasn't clear in the previous post,
I meant the old model (that normally runs on a single D lithium, or 2 D alkalines in the optional 'tandem' battery pack) will run on a single D alkaline...also there is the option of putting a 2nd spare D lithium in the 'tandem' battery pack, but you'll have to put together your own "conductive battery bypass strip" -- unless Henry has invented this already? he was working on it last year -- I'll ask him..

 

[PeLu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:
Can't blame other owner's shyness to have its lightbeam compared to other LED lights.
....
Henry of HDS really have to do something about improving Action Lights brightness and battery requirement for the light.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't know how many ActionLight users are around here at CPF, but I would have to borrow a digital camera and some other (well known) LED lights to compare.
And Henry is really not forced to improve the ActionLight, there are more orders as he can handle. First he has to fulfil the backorders and then he may change anything. There is no need to make it brighter and to support other batteries. His main customers are pretty happy with it. Newer versions will be brighter for the simple reason that newer LEDs are used. But he will never overdrive the LEDs as much as other manufacturers will do. And he already has added some kind of (short time) overdrive mode in V2 (demanded by a well known person .-)
Even with the larger input range, most cavers will use the Li D cell.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Damn right! I'm not spending $349.00 for a flashlight just as bright as TREK-7, with aluminum body, fancy electronics, and hard to find special battery.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, you are doing good so. This light will not do what you want to.
And actually, I also do not care about aluminium body, fance electronics and where to buy the battery. The housing could be made from any material, as long as it is real cave-proof (and it turned out that a plastic housing will be not lighter or better). And I (we) look just at the functions and don't care if it is made with fancy electronics or anything magic. And every ActionLight owner here just stocked a couple of batteries and is happy about it. People know that you just can't get this energy density at any supermarket.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
The first and foremost function of the flashlight is to give light.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course! And to give light under any circumstances and the exact amount of light which is needed at the moment.

Your arguments seem to me like somebody who wants a sports car and looks at a 4WD truck. And complains that the 4WD cost more than the sportscar and is even slower. These are just two different things.

 

[PeLu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
news flash! The Action Light will work on a regular D-cell alkaline battery! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But only in the 'normal' mode, not in low and not in high.

 

[PeLu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 2d_edge:

They do not know better yet at the time because there were no visual or photo comparison of lightbeam to other led lights to decide if this $349 lightbeam comparable to a $50 lightbeam is worth it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Again: The lightbeam is only slightly better than of any 24 LED light using the same quality Nichia LEDs at the same current.
These difference may not be worth $10. It is all the other goodies which makes the difference (and worth the money for some people).

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I'm wondering why in all the time owners have the Action Light in their possession and probably access to a digital camera and yet doesn't show lightbeam photos comparing to other known led lights? Why?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I wrote before, on Dec 29th I will make photos of 4 different ActionLights (when I get a digital camera for this time). My own is currently up in the mountains waiting for transport back.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
And what makes you think Action Light is the "4WD truck" of LED lights?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It is just an analogy, nothing else.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Action Light V2 is more interesting to me because now I have an idea how bright its going to be after seeing Stingmon's Action Light V1 photos comparing lightbeams and after hearing from Henry and what he expects from V2 regarding brightness.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Anyway, you will get probably one to test before you buy it. And V3 will probably fit your needs even more .-) (and it will by far not take as long for it as for V2).

BTW, I always wanted to add an additional spotlight and an UV LED. Our last idea was using a SureFire P60 (or R60, which is a little bit brighter in this case) with a separate boost or maybe SEPIC regulator in an additional small housing. Sometimes we need a long reaching light for identifying far objects. In the same small housing will be a UV LED for checking minerals. These two things will run off the same battery, of course, and add only very little weight. I also have a pretty simple solution for a rechargeable battery. We have prototypes running for that, but it may be that V3 makes that all obsolete and the UV led will just be replaced by an UV Arc AAA.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
First he has to fulfil the backorders and then he may change anything. There is no need to make it brighter and to support other batteries. His main customers are pretty happy with. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Two reasons:

1. Curiosity and abundance of money combined
2. They do not know better yet at the time because there were no visual or photo comparison of lightbeam to other led lights to decide if this $349 lightbeam comparable to a $50 lightbeam is worth it.

I'm wondering why in all the time owners have the Action Light in their possession and probably access to a digital camera and yet doesn't show lightbeam photos comparing to other known led lights? Why?

If a product is really great then why the shyness to compare and show it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
Of course! And to give light under any circumstances and the exact amount of light which is needed at the moment. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And that is brightness comparable to a $50 led light for $349?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
Your arguments seem to me like somebody who wants a sports car and looks at a 4WD truck. And complains that the 4WD cost more than the sportscar and is even slower. These are just two different things. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And what makes you think Action Light is the "4WD truck" of LED lights? The "aircraft grade" aluminum case and special Li-SO2 battery? Oh!.. I love it when they say that. Reminds me of the stainless steel pot salesman who always has to attach the words "surgical" and say "surgical stainless steel" cooking pot. Makes his surgical stainless steel pot better and more expensive?!. Btw, I haven't seen a aircraft with its aircraft grade aluminum steel body fully intact after a crash.

Action Light V2 is more interesting to me because now I have an idea how bright its going to be after seeing Stingmon's Action Light V1 photos comparing lightbeams and after hearing from Henry and what he expects from V2 regarding brightness. With the improvements on the brightness and battery compatibility, to me V2 may be worth it.

- verge -

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

2_D edge, take a step back, man. I really don't have a digital camera. If I knew Stingmon didn't have something like a Lightwave 4000 to compare it to, I would have sent him one with the Action light. But as it is, Brock will most probably compare the Action light to another, yes, probably brighter, multi-led light. No, it isn't all a conspiracy to defraud you into spending bocu bux on a dim flashlight - if you handled one, you would understand the quality in the build...

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey.....! It's not as if I'm thinking there might a sinister plot worthy of an episode on "X-Files".

Just like what I said from the previous page of this thread "shyness".

Yes, I'm going to handle one because I'm going to buy one - the latest version (Action Light V2).

I just hope that by the time V2 gets here I already have bought the Canon-D30 for me to take better pictures of its lightbeam.

- verge -

 

[The_LED_Museum]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
2_D edge, take a step back, man. I really don't have a digital camera. If I knew Stingmon didn't have something like a Lightwave 4000 to compare it to, I would have sent him one with the Action light. But as it is, Brock will most )<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brock doesn't have a Lightwave 4000 either... apparently his was also a "loaner".
So at the present time, nobody is equipped to compare an Action Light with a Lightwave 4000.

 

[Brock]

Nope don't have the 4000, but I do have the Trek 1900 and 1400. So.... But like everyone has mentioned until we see a V2 or later it really is just for reference since this one is using the 4000 mcd LED in it.

 

[PeLu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Brock:
Nope don't have the 4000, but I do have the Trek 1900 and 1400. So.... But like everyone has mentioned until we see a V2 or later it really is just for reference since this one is using the 4000 mcd LED in it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you have to mention which batteries you use in your (for example) Trek 1900, as brightness depends at lot of it.

Even if I would have all the equipment here to make a photo, I would hesitate to do so. Such a photo is better than nothing, but not really a serious technical way to compare lights. This would be the light distribution diagram, in at least two axis (horizontal and vertical).
Yesterday I had an idea how to get access to real light measuring equipment again (I did not have it now for many years). An old friend of mine just became professor at a technical school...

 

[PeLu]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ted the Led:
if you handled one, you would understand the quality in the build... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Especially if you used one for a longer time. But it is as always: if several of your dreams get real, you just a several new ones....
And of course, you (could) get dissatisfied when people with 10-led headlights outshine you easily.....
I just got my pack (with my light and several tons of mud) back and I have now finished my 4th cell on it (light was switched on accidently, but there could be only a small rest been left).

 

[The_LED_Museum]

Well, there's a pretty good chance I'll get to do some battery life testing sometime this week.

As for comparative analysis, the best I'm really equipped to do is compare it visually to other multi-LED lights. I'd need access to a *real* laboratory full of optronics & fancy power supplies in order to do much more; and once inside that lab I'd quite likely find myself out of my league.

 

[**DONOTDELETE**]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PeLu:
Even if I would have all the equipment here to make a photo, I would hesitate to do so. Such a photo is better than nothing, but not really a serious technical way to compare lights. This would be the light distribution diagram, in at least two axis (horizontal and vertical).
Yesterday I had an idea how to get access to real light measuring equipment again (I did not have it now for many years). An old friend of mine just became professor at a technical school...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Collecting flashlight is just a hobby for me and to spend 100k-bucks or mega-bucks for laboratory equipment similar to the ones used say by NASA to measure lightbeam I think is beyond my financial capability.

Now as flashlight collectors we often ask each other about lightbeams of different brands because we often would like to have an idea of its lightbeam, or at least we can picture in our minds its lightbeam.

Numerical data is fine but do you think its going to be of good use to the ordinary guy? But, I think those numerical data are good for thorough technical description of lightbeam although I doubt if I would understand all of them.

Were the laboratories and organizations who have access to or the capability to acquire sophisticated light measuring equipment interested on flashlight lightbeams? I doubt they would do so without expectations of big-bucks compensation.

Where does that leave the flashlight collector, back to his simple unsophisticated non-laboratory grade digital camera. A picture with this camera is worth more to the ordinary guy than volumes of numerical data which can be as abstract as the numbers on the NY Stock Exchange, still better than pictures from so-called laboratory equipment not available to the flashlight collector.

Take this as an example; a SureFire 6P flashlight with nice clean lightbeam with a small hotspot compared to a another SL4AA flashlight lightbeam with dimmer rings surrounding a bigger hotspot. I can already imagine the guy who have not seen first hand lightbeams of the 2 flashlights reading the "X" and "Y" axis in a technical data report and still come out not having a fairly good idea of the flashlights lightbeam.

And because lightbeam is a visual perception, a picture of lightbeam speaks more than lightbeam technical data.

This is not to disregard the importance of a laboratory technical data of lightbeam but to just stress a simple point that photo of lightbeam taken with a simple digital camera by a flashlight collector may be easier to understand and more helpfull to the given circumstance.

One can describe the beauty of the winner of the Miss Universe beauty contest in a 50-page single-spaced back-to-back paper report, but a photo is better. Just to stress again that in matters of visual perception, a photo works best although its it adds to the knowledge to read and know that she has a small mole on her neck which may not be visible to the photo.

- verge -

 

[Brock]

I am with Craig and 2d_edge on this one. It is really funny to think about it. I had a web page about my digital camera and got all kinds of email about it. So then I thought, hey someone else might find this goofy flashlight interest of use. So then I started my LED flashlight page. It really amazed me even 3 years ago how many people emailed me. Since I posted the light in their order of brightness the emails have slowed a lot. So my take is most people just what to know what light are the brightest, more then anything else about the lights. To me this is just a fun thing to do and if I get some hi-tech measuring device it would turn more in to work. I guess I want to keep this "fun" for me.