AL Sundrop?

[mejesster]

Some time ago, Mr. McGizmo implied that the AL mules would be taken off the market and turned into AL sundrops. Has there been any news on this? After a brief experience with Ti, I decided it's too rich for my blood, but I'm interested in getting my hands on one of those high CRI LEDs along with the fancy lens.

 

[yaesumofo]

Titanium certainly up the ants. In the end an aluminum sundrop would Bea welcome addition to the currently (un) available set of flashlights.
The kicker (I think ) is the unique head design for the sundrop. It is not the same as stock mule. the other missing element would be the custom sapphire lens. So what happens is Don makes an investment in the components needed for a run of lights. lenses, heads even the o-rings all add up
If you make light from aluminum the actual tie it takes to assemble the light and pack it and ship it is the same as a titanium light. So If you are going to make a light and all things are equal a titanium flashlight is going to make him more profit. Like it or not it is that profit which pays for the R and D ad time consuming tests and builds that make these lights which are so cool even possible.
I rekon the bottom line is better with titanium.
All that said I would love to see a few Aluminum sundrops and lunasols.
Since there seems to be a slight shortage of drivers I suspect that most drivers will find their way into titanium flashlights.
Yaesumofo

 

[DecimusQ]

I think i read something similar before lol

 

[adamlau]

Aluminum versions would undeniably be met with favorable sales and reactions .

 

[precisionworks]

If you cost out a Ti SunDrop, there's $170 in the McClicky Pak & only $230 in the head. Which is incredibly inexpensive as Ti heads go. Most everyone (Delghi, Mirage Man, Tranquility Base, et al) sells the bare head for over $200 ... add a lens, driver, etc. and you'll likely have close to $400 in the head alone.

I would guess that an Al SunDrop wouldn't be much less in price than Ti, but Don might prove me wrong

 

[Rico801]

At this point, I would be content to just get the SD LE to place in my empty EN Mule head.

 

[McGizmo]

At this point, I would be content to just get the SD LE to place in my empty EN Mule head.

I think that once I have converters available and get into the assembly of a bunch of 083 LE's that it is likely I will complete the balance of Aleph McMule sets using the 083 LE's. Depending on what is going on at the time and how willing I am to go into LE production beyond those needed for complete lights, I may well offer some up separately.

The 083 LED is quite viable with no secondary optic and some may prefer the even greater beam spread. I personally prefer the sapphire lens in front of the 083 but that's me.

I have no plans in the near future of doing a run of Al SunDrops. Yaesumofo has not been too far off the mark with his observations, nor has Precisionworks. Aluminum runs are relatively large in number for me as a one man assembly house and unless I were to outsource the assemblies, I can't really compete because I can't afford to work at competitive labor rates the flashlights now enjoy. I doubt many, if any, of us could. :green:

I could certainly build more lights than I have been but the number is still finite and not large.

 

[AndyTiedye]

If you cost out a Ti SunDrop, there's $170 in the McClicky Pak & only $230 in the head. Which is incredibly inexpensive as Ti heads go.

$170 for the body (with built-in tailcap AND a clip) is a bargain too.
Usually you pay more than that for a Ti body and then have to buy
a tailcap for $85-$95 and a switch to put in the tailcap.

 

[precisionworks]

+1

IMO, the Ti SunDrop is the best buy on the market today (as long as you need its special qualities). I'm surprised, but also pleased, that Don priced it as low as he did.

The real problem that I see with an Al version is that you'd need an general purpose light in Al as well ... LS20, LS27, PD-S, etc. Imagine how awful you'd appear to friends & co-workers if you carried one Ti light & one Al light in the same pocket.

That's just not right:thinking:

 

[yaesumofo]

I have a feeling that a sapphire lens is not exactly cheap. Ofcourse the emitters and having them mounted is not cheap either. then there is the driver which run what $20 or so. when you start adding components up it is important to start with a complete list of parts.
Then of course one much consider the cost of Don's labor to build the head. I don't know about you but If I were to hire don to do some design work or if I were going to hire him to do some assembly (a waste of money IMHO. Money spent on Don should be for design work not assembly) Anyway IMHO one could expect to pay Don TOP Dollar for either Design or assembly.
Just a little food for thought.
Yaesumofo

$170 for the body (with built-in tailcap AND a clip) is a bargain too.
Usually you pay more than that for a Ti body and then have to buy
a tailcap for $85-$95 and a switch to put in the tailcap.

 

[AndyTiedye]

Imagine how awful you'd appear to friends & co-workers if you carried one Ti light & one Al light in the same pocket.

That's just not right:thinking:

Wouldn't the Ti scratch the hell out of whatever coating/plating you had on the Al?

Perhaps the next step is to combine the Lunasol and Sundrop concepts.
Would a ring of 083s around a Cree or Dragon work?
Would the contrast in color rendition/temperature be a problem?

 

[adamlau]

This is exact what I am waiting on (if at all possible) .

 

[mejesster]

In that case, count me in for an LE/Mule when they become available!

 

[precisionworks]

Wouldn't the Ti scratch the hell out of whatever coating/plating you had on the Al?

It certainly would seem so.

Ti 6-4 has a Rockwell Hardness of C32 ... hard enough for many industrial purposes, but not 'knife hard' (around 60 Rc).

Type III Hardcoat (aka Mil Spec Type III) is many times harder at Rc65 to Rc70, roughly the same as industrial hard chrome plate. So an Al light with a Type III coating (or Industrial Hard Chrome) will be super hard ... but the Type III is thin, only a few thousandths at most, and the Al substrate is soft as warm butter. Hard chrome is tougher because it is not a conversion coating, it is an added layer of metal containing chromium carbides & nickel. But it is still limited by the softness of an Aluminum substrate.

Some people will anodize Ti for cosmetic purposes, as it can look cool if you want a certain color. You could hard chrome Ti but the look would be almost identical to the bare metal. Most of the hard chrome I see is used for shafting rebuilds, or for use on extreme wear parts like coal mining equipment.

Would a ring of 083s around a Cree or Dragon work?

Funny, I've wondered that exact same thing.

(2 seconds f/16 with diffused P60 lighting)

The biggest challenge I see is the physical size of the 083 die compared to the Nichia die. There's not enough room in the LS20 head for a ring of three 083's, although three would probably fit in a LS27 head.

Are there High CRI emitters available that are similar in size to the Nichia? Even if they exist, the minimum purchase quantity is probably large, like the thousand that Don already purchased in the 083.

It's a neat concept that has some real challenges built in Until we see a HCRI LS20, I'll keep carrying those two in the photo ... which isn't all bad:thumbsup:

 

[McGizmo]

I sent an e-mail to my friend at Nichia suggesting that when the people at the factory get bored that they do a run of the 310DS with the high CRI phosphor. I am not holding my breath here.

Guys, why would you need more than one 083?!?! A single 083 in tandem with a high power collimated LED would get you where you want to go but the difference in color temp would not be pleasant, IMHO.

Personally, I am happy to wait for higher color temp high CRI LED's with hopefully greater flux before I go about collimating them. I have done a couple protos with Seoul high CRI and they are warmer than the Nichia and not any brighter flux wise. The beam reminds me of Luxeon low domes with tint variation from spill to spot and just not very bright. It seems that to get the lux strong enough to have better color rendition make a difference you have to move in close to the target. I would rather move in even closer and use the SunDrop at that point and not have any variation in tint or intensity.

Ceteris paribus, I would much rather have the high CRI but we don't have ceteris paribus yet and not even close, in my estimation.

 

[iconoclast]

Guys, why would you need more than one 083?!?! A single 083 in tandem with a high power collimated LED would get you where you want to go but the difference in color temp would not be pleasant, IMHO.

Personally, I am happy to wait for higher color temp high CRI LED's with hopefully greater flux before I go about collimating them. I have done a couple protos with Seoul high CRI and they are warmer than the Nichia and not any brighter flux wise. The beam reminds me of Luxeon low domes with tint variation from spill to spot and just not very bright. It seems that to get the lux strong enough to have better color rendition make a difference you have to move in close to the target. I would rather move in even closer and use the SunDrop at that point and not have any variation in tint or intensity.

Ceteris paribus, I would much rather have the high CRI but we don't have ceteris paribus yet and not even close, in my estimation.

So it sounds like the trick is to find one of the high flux leds that most closely matches the color temp of the 083s you happen to have. Theoretically, if you get them matched close enough, it won't really stand out when both are fired. If you're close enough to really examine subtle color differences, you'll probably have dropped down to the flood ring anyway.
(This sort of matching obviously doesn't scale to production quantities, but for the do-it-yourselfer waiting for leds from the future, it could be an interesting project.)

 

[AndyTiedye]

I sent an e-mail to my friend at Nichia suggesting that when the people at the factory get bored that they do a run of the 310DS with the high CRI phosphor. I am not holding my breath here.

Not holding my breath, but my Paypal is at the ready.

Guys, why would you need more than one 083?!?!

Now that you mention it, if we're gonna have a ring of 3 or 6 083's,
what are we gonna put in the center? a P7? an Ostar?

A single 083 in tandem with a high power collimated LED would get you where you want to go but the difference in color temp would not be pleasant, IMHO.

You're probably right.

Personally, I am happy to wait for higher color temp high CRI LED's with hopefully greater flux before I go about collimating them. I have done a couple protos with Seoul high CRI and they are warmer than the Nichia and not any brighter flux wise. The beam reminds me of Luxeon low domes with tint variation from spill to spot and just not very bright. It seems that to get the lux strong enough to have better color rendition make a difference you have to move in close to the target. I would rather move in even closer and use the SunDrop at that point and not have any variation in tint or intensity.

That is kind of what I have been doing lately too, but it often leads to carrying two flashlights. (This is a problem? No, not really).

Ceteris paribus, I would much rather have the high CRI but we don't have ceteris paribus yet and not even close, in my estimation.

What is ceteris paribus?