Another longbow review *edited*

[ws]

Hi, guys. Just today, I was looking at dive exhibition in Singapore and guess what? Longbow flashlights were being actively marketed at at least two dive stores that I saw. Had a chance to compare the Micra, Mini and Eco 8210 (runs on 2AA cells), both with conventional head and their version of a turbo head. Two had the clickie switch and two had the push switch.

No surprises for the Micra and the Mini. The 2AA version is quite long, but as far as I could tell, was as bright as the Micra at least. Unfortunately, the place was too bright for me to test the throw of the turbo head version. One thing I must say, though. I was not correct to say that the T.I.D. for the surfire 6P will fit on the Longbow bezel. It cannot, because the diameter is different. Sorry about that.

The advertisement sheet that was given to me stated that all the lights were 20.7 lumens. I do not know how true that is. The figures do not quite match the box. Maybe they are being conservative. One thing though: They are producing what they call an SDO head, which is identical in concept to the crenelated bezels of the new surefires. (SDO stands for Supplementary Defence Option.) So if those are allowed to be sold in Singapore, maybe the fuss about surefire's crenelated bezels is not so warranted. The 2AA goes for S$188/- and the turbo head version for S$288/-.

Also on sale by some local shop: a small, locally made 1W LED light (Luxeon? Dunno) made from stainless steel, meant as a backup light. When I first saw it, I thought it looked like a chrome slug. No photos but it was at least as bright as the Micra. Twist switch, run by one 123 lithium battery. Two hours of bright light ("sun" mode) and 3 hours of useable light ("moon" mode). Tested to 100 m depth (328 feet), so the sales personnel claim. Retailing for S$150 (interbank conversion rate at this moment is roughly US$1 = S$1.68) but they were offering a 15% discount only for today and tomorrow at the exhibition. Its chrome finish makes it very attractive, and its run time and small size (almost as long as the Micra, but 3/4 of the diameter) makes it a good competitor as an EDC.

From what I can see, the state of flashlight manufacture and design in Singapore is: very much alive and kicking, and developing. Given a few more years, such designs could become serious competitors on the international market. Pity I could not buy the Longbow Eco 8210 as my wallet is empty now. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/broke.gif

 

[Red_Dot]

Re: Another longbow review

Hi WS
thanks for the longbow review, seems like quite a few people here on CPF find the longbows to be good lights. A friend of mine actually went down to the factory where they're being made here in Singapore and went away impressed. For myself, I'm hoping that they'll be priced more competitively since they'll be competiting directly with the ARCs and ARC LSH prices have come down in recent months.
Will try to go down to the Dive Exhibition to check out the other light you mentioned.

 

[ws]

Re: Another longbow review

Went back to the Asia Dive Expo again to look at the Longbows. Found out some new things as the marketing manager for Longbow was there.

The LEDs are actually made in capsules. That means that if somehow the LED becomes faulty, all one has to do is open up the bezel, replace the LED capsule with another and you are back in business. They currently have 1 watt (used with one 123 lithium) and 5 watt (used with two or three 123 lithiums). A 3 watt LED capsule is in the pipeline. They did tell me that if the 1 watt LED is used with two or three 123 cells, it will blow in short order.

The bezel is also different. Instead of the normal thin plate of Lexan or even Pyrex, the bezel window is a solid block (of glass? dunno), with a reflective surface on the inside of the block, and just enough space for the LED to fit in nicely. This makes it one up on all other bezels on the market, since 5 mm of solid glass is very hard to shatter.

The booster head (think something like a Surefire SRTH) can be fitted to all Longbows, including the Micra, and it increases throw of light, like a tubo head.

Part 3 of the review coming up presently.

 

[ws]

Re: Another longbow review

Part 3 of the review:

One thing about the Micra. Its body can be replaced with that of an Eco, and two 2AA cells can be used without any problem. So that's what I did: buy a Micra and an extra Eco body. Now I can use either 1 123 lithium cell or 2 AA cells just by changing the body. Runtime should be the same, and the light is just as bright.

Just to verify their product, the Longbow people sent two Micras and two Minis to the Productivity and Standards Board here for independent testing. In the US, its equivalent would roughly be Underwriters Limited. Both Mini and Micra were subject to water pressure, drop and crush tests.

Water pressure test: 15 seconds each at simulated depths of 50, 100, 150, 200 and 250 feet. Lights work perfectly at all depths. Clickie will automatically switch light on below 50 feet.

Drop test: each light dropped twice from roughly 60 feet onto a concrete surface. Lights still work after each drop.

Crush test: lights placed horizontally on a hydraulic press and pressure applied until the light is squashed. Results: Micra squashed when weight on it is roughly 4.5 metric tons, and Mini squashed when weight is roughly 7 metic tons. Tough light.

The marketing manager at the Longbow stall told me that the clickie switch was designed to switch on the light when the water pressure is greater than 50 feet. 2 reasons:

1) If a diver is going below 50 feet, the light comes on, warning him of the fact. Useful second indicator, especially if a depth gauge is busted.

2) If the light is dropped, as it sinks below 50 feet, it comes on, enabling it to be found on the sea bed. Of course, depth of the sea bed must be greater than 50 feet in the first place.

Longbow people told me that they plan to introduce new accessories every quarter. The SDO head should be available in 2 weeks time, but only in olive drab at first. Black will come later. The 3 watt LED capsule would come out later. Currently, they are testing a rechargeable lithium cell (similar to what is being done in the USA.)

Things are going to get very interesting with this product, the way I see it.

 

[03lab]

Re: Another longbow review

Great info ws. Do you know if the 3 watt LED will be available for the micra or will it need two 123 batteries?

 

[Aten_Imago]

Re: Another longbow review

RE : " Crush test: lights placed horizontally on a hydraulic press and pressure applied until the light is squashed."
Now that's my kind of stress testing- Thanks ! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Aten

 

[The_LED_Museum]

Re: Another longbow review

[ QUOTE ]
ws said:
Crush test: lights placed horizontally on a hydraulic press and pressure applied until the light is squashed. Results: Micra squashed when weight on it is roughly 4.5 metric tons, and Mini squashed when weight is roughly 7 metic tons. Tough light.

[/ QUOTE ]
Is this test done with or without batteries in the flashlights?
Either way, they're tough flashlights!!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

 

[ws]

Re: Another longbow review

03lab - No idea. I did see one of the salesmen have a Micra body (2 CR123) with a 5 watt LED and booster head. No word on what the 3 watt LED can use. Will just have to wait, I think. The 5 watt capsule seems almost as bright as an L4 but I do not have one for comparison.

The_LED_Museum - Dunno. The test sheet did not say. What this test means, though, is that theoretically, one could put a Mini on the ground (normal earth, not tarmac road or concrete), have an M1A2 tank run over it and it still might operate normally. I'll put this test to any US armour servicemen out there: can you take an operational Mini and an operational E2e (or L4, if you can afford it /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ), put it horizontally on earth (say, a training ground) and run your M1 or Bradley over them twice or three times. After each time, switch it on to see if they operate normally and inspect each to see what is broken or squashed. You could try it with any other lights, of course. This would be a real world test, and as heavy duty as I could think of. I'm quite sure many here would be curious as to how the lights would fare. However, could others supply the lights please? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[JanCPF]

Re: Another longbow review

[ QUOTE ]
ws said:
The marketing manager at the Longbow stall told me that the clickie switch was designed to switch on the light when the water pressure is greater than 50 feet. 2 reasons:

1) If a diver is going below 50 feet, the light comes on, warning him of the fact. Useful second indicator, especially if a depth gauge is busted.

2) If the light is dropped, as it sinks below 50 feet, it comes on, enabling it to be found on the sea bed. Of course, depth of the sea bed must be greater than 50 feet in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a rather far fetched explanation IMO. If the sea bed is below your dive limits, number 2 won't do you much good anyway. And as for number 1 - what is wrong with diving deeper than 50 feet?! Also If you use it as a backup light, you would probably have the light in the BCD pocket, depleting the batteries as you go deeper than 50 feet.

This surely isn't a divelight.

Jan

 

[McGizmo]

Re: Another longbow review

JanCPF,

I got a chuckle out of this marketing "explaination" but figured I would refrain from comment. Like any push button tail switch, this light will come on when enough ambient external pressure is reached. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif The light can be locked out so it could be used as a dive light with the clickie tail pack. Of course the twisty pack might be a better choice in submerged applications anyway. As to the switch being "designed" for this 50' target depth, cursory inspection of the switch, in situ, seems to indicate that this switch is a familiar, off the shelf, part. Perhaps the durometer of the boot was selected for the 50' target or perhaps the 50' depth is just the result of the mechanics and inherent spring force of the switch with some "Happy HS" spin mixed in. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Design goal or result of design? My money is on the latter.

In fairness to the LongBow as a submersible light, The potting of the LED as well as the O-ring on the LED module would seem to point to interior water proof chambers with water damage minimized even if the integrity were compromised. I would guess that a cracked lens might flood the front end but the light might well continue to function with little damage. Water intrusion in the battery compartment would probably toast the battery and switch but if the rear portion of the LED module is potted as well, the module should survive unharmed. I am speculating here and assuming that the potting materials will function, as I assume, in elevated thermal conditions and that the various CTE's don't compromise the integrity of the system.

That the light has passed some significant pressure tests does not come as a surprise nor do I think it's a fluke.

Marketing aside, I think this light is an honest light with good, possibly great, bang for the buck.

Thank you WS for your time and the information you have reported on this "new entrant" to the LED scene.

 

[Mister T]

Re: Another longbow review

[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:
In fairness to the LongBow as a submersible light, The potting of the LED as well as the O-ring on the LED module[..]

[/ QUOTE ]
I looked at the exploded drawing in the manual and saw that o-ring on the LED module as well, but my Micra doesn't have one.

[ QUOTE ]

[..]if the rear portion of the LED module is potted as well, the module should survive unharmed. [..]


[/ QUOTE ]
The rear side on my Micra is not potted or sealed in any way, nor the circuit in it. It is easy to remove the plastic shim that holds the anode contact and take a look inside /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif Unfortunately, there is some kind of coating on the circuit board (at least on one side). Otherwise it might have been possible to boost the current a little bit /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[McGizmo]

Re: Another longbow review

Mister T,

I stand corrected. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Darell]

Re: Another longbow review

That 50' business is some stellar marketing! EVerybody needs to know when they reach 50', afterall. I wonder how accurate that "indicator" is? Marketing spin aside, these do appear to be impressive little lights.