Another virus attempt-get a load of this.

Al_Havemann

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Sep 11, 2002
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Location
New York City
X-Ray:

VMware and Virtual PC both use their own hardware abstraction layer. They use the VM-OS drivers but abstract the interface so that it doesn't matter what OS is hosting the session. The networking depends on the host to have the correct drivers in one case but if the host does not, then the VM can access the hardware directly. If the host has the drivers for the network installed then the VM uses it's own driver and NAT to work through them.

It is supposed to be possible to do direct access to some of the hardware even if the host is using it. I haven't followed that logic to it's conclusion so I'll beg off a direct answer there, I'm not at all sure exactly what hardware the host will allow to have shared access to.

I do know that the VM-OS can be attacked, destroyed or whatever without infecting the host. For example, I created a Novell NetWare 6.3 server in a VM on a desktop system at my office. I loaded the firewall (Border Manager) in default mode without much configuration or specific port blocking etc. as would be the case for an inexperienced sysadmin. That evening I attacked the server from home using my laptop. This test was somewhat unfair since I knew the OS intimately and was aware of every installation choice.

I penetrated the firewall and destroyed the server first by attacking the WEB server and corrupting it, then the underlying server OS and finished by killing all the volumes. In other words, I attacked it much as an experienced hacker might with intent to do as much damage as possible. At no time was I able to detect that I was attacking a VM and not a physical server.

The next morning I checked the machine and the host OS (WinXP) was completely undamaged.

In summary, the VM uses much of the host hardware control systems since they are not shareable. The host OS locks onto much of the hardware and the VM must work through the host. This doesn't mean that you don't need drivers for the VM, just that they work through the host for access. This is going to be true for any VM on any host OS since on any system, the essential hardware is not shareable.

Attached peripherals for the most part function fine. I have had problems with USB devices and SCSI drives. Virtual PC doesn't support SCSI at all and I've had trouble Hot syncing my Palm to a VM, the VM see's the connection but fails to hotsync, so there's likely some issues with USB and maybe firewire as well, I don't have all the answers since I haven't tested that exhaustively. Mostly, I use VM to test various configurations, do investigation and forensics work and virus/Trojan investigation.

Performance is good with a VM on a competent machine but keep in mind that running two OS's on one machine is going to hit the system pretty hard. For most daily, non-intensive applications like WP, browsing and such it's no problem, but I wouldn't load a VM to do video processing, it just isn't going to work all that well. In a couple of years the hardware will probably support this workload with flinching but for now, just know that performance will take a hit.

As for drivers, they work through the host OS but the VM-OS has to have the drivers loaded as well. If you remember that the Vmware application uses the host OS as it's platform, that it can use whatever services the host provides and supply an abstract layer to the VM you'll pretty much be able to figure out what's going on.

Got another one for you, consider this: I load a version of VMware on a server, a special datacenter server version of VMware specially designed to abstract the server environment at the machine level. Into that server I load NetWare or some other server OS in a VM. Next I obtain say, 10 more computers and load the datacenter VMware on them as well and hook them into the network so they can all see each other. Once all the machines have the VMware loaded and can see each other, I do some configuration to inform them that they are all part of the same virtual computer. Having done that, I start the server os and off we go.

Since the hardware is abstracted and the machines themselves are abstracted, all 10 systems behave as if they were a single computer. The fun part is, if I lose say two systems, maybe the power supplies fail or something. The server just gets a bit slower. Fix those machines and maybe add 5 more and the VM server gets faster. No more single server failures, no clustering headaches. Need more horsepower?, add more hardware. One OS running on a multi-machine virtual server, fully fault tolerant, fully redundant and non-stop. Take down a machine for maintenance and the VMserver never misses a step.

The above is not fiction, there's a product well on it's way to delivering those features. Future high availability servers and sites may well utilize this technology. I wouldn't be surprised to see a product soon from that includes it's own boot OS and driver base. Boot to a minimum system (DOS like) and load your OS into a VM. Think of the relief to the support world, no more individual configurations for different hardware platforms, it's all abstracted. Build one OS, polish it to the corporate standard and copy it to every system in house regardless of the hardware and it runs the same everywhere.

I'd LOVE that!.

Hope this explains it better.

Al
 

x-ray

Flashlight Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 1, 2002
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1,941
Location
London
Thanks very much Al /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 

Negeltu

Enlightened
Joined
Aug 28, 2003
Messages
724
Location
Oregon, USA
Charles,

I know that. I program in Java. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I didn't mean to seem like I was angry or anything. My only point was that a persons choice in browsers seriously affects how "safe" they are while surfing the net. That was my only point. Perhaps I didn't state it very clearly. Sorry about that. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 

James S

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Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Messages
5,078
Location
on an island surrounded by reality
I've been using Virtual PC since before it ran on windows /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif GREAT program, unbelievable almost.

It's also become very popular amongst windows developers, especially with some of the lower level folks. They can do their testing and corrupt the hard drive or windows install and a re-install back to a clean state is as easy as duplicating the clean image and re-running the program. Imagine how much easier that also makes for testing and tweaking complex installers and uninstallers.

As to peripherals, I haven't actually used the thing on windows, but on my Mac when I plug in a USB device or other device I can load the low level drivers for it in windows under VPC without any difficulty. All sorts of things have worked fine.

Slightly off to the side of this, there is a program in Linux that is now coming to windows that tries to keep bad drivers from crashing the system. (they blame, and probably rightly so, bad drivers and other 3rd party software that is loaded inside the kernel where it is not protected for most crashes) that actually emulates the kernel and loads the driver into IT instead of into the real kernel. then if the sub/fake/imitation kernel crashes, you just loose the functionality of that device until you unplug-replug or something.

now, all of this comes at a price, but with the speed of processors now a days you have to look to see the difference in speed.

Somehow it all strikes me as wrong in a basic way though. They aren't fixing the underlying problems, those are now considered just part of daily life that will never change, but we can improve reliability by radically increasing complexity... Nothing running in any of those cases will ever be completely deterministic. And you'll never use it to launch spacecraft. But for running word and serving up ASP pages it will work better than what we've got now.
 

richpalm

Banned
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Messages
965
Location
Central Pa.
I actually received *another* of these yesterday supposedly from my ISP's "virus dept" with an @optonline.net addy. Of course I didn't dare.

I use Eudora 6 and couldn't find any setting for disabling HTML on the receiving end, only sending. However, I get clickable links in plain text emails also.

FWIW, I went and downloaded Zone Alarm right away. Amazed at the list of blocked attempts already.


EDIT: This is on my ISP's home page now... so for those in the NY/NJ area that use optonline, beware!

(paste)

Fraud Warning! Forged Optonline.net Email

If you receive an email like this, delete it immediately.

Virus Alert
To:[User ID]
From: optonline.net's Internet Virus Department


We have detected a possible computer virus on your computer, You must open the details of the report within 24 hours our we will be forced to shut down your internet service.

Please Click Below Then Press "open" To View The Report If you do not open this report in 24 hours we will suspend your internet service If nothing apears on your virus report please dis-regard this message Click Here Now


Optimum Online has discovered that an outside third party has sent email to our subscribers in an attempt to trick users into visiting websites that contain malicious code and could potentially cause harm to your computer. These emails have the subject line, "Virus Alert From optonline.net Virus Report Center." Optimum Online has taken steps to protect you already, but the best course is still to delete this message immediately.

These websites likely take advantage of some vulnerabilities in Microsoft Internet Explorer. You can protect yourself by visiting Microsoft's Windows Update site. Click here to get the most recent updates.

Additionally, installing firewall and antivirus software will further secure your system. Some providers are:

Symantec/Norton - www.symantec.com
Trend Micro - www.trendmicro.com
Zone Alarm - www.zonelabs.com

(See http://www1.my-etrust.com/cvision/ for a special firewall and antivirus software offer just for Optimum Online subscribers.)



Rich
 

Al_Havemann

Enlightened
Joined
Sep 11, 2002
Messages
302
Location
New York City
James: Your right, point well taken. It's becoming all too easy to isolate components, abstract the hardware and generally compartmentalize various components until a single failure cannot take down the whole system, and like you, I see problems with that down the road.

I can easily envision a time when every critical component of an OS lives in isolation. If a component fails it can be restarted without lose of system up time. All this fault tolerance will add massive complexity to the basic OS and the resiliency will foster lazyness in programmers. You can see what the attitude will be; "what the heck, I don't have to be that careful, after all, the OS will watch out for me". Already you can see some of this.

When I was a full time programmer we had code review and QC at every step, what went into production was pretty good stuff. I don't see much of that these days with production managers counting the lines of code a programmer writes a day, and reviews their performance by quantity, not quality.

Just think, massive computing power, huge memory models, multi-processors, etc. The computer of the future, able to leap tall building in a single bound, except their strapped with error checking, redundancy, trapping and component isolation to the point that their performance might actually rival the desktop machine of today.

And if you've looked at some of the crappy code coming out today you know what I mean.

Al
 

illumiGeek

Enlightened
Joined
Oct 28, 2003
Messages
499
Location
Kapolei, Hawaii
Another one I've seen in newsgroups lately is someone claiming to post a picture or diagram of something relavent and it will be a name like:

schematic.pdf

or

diagram.jpg

and a whole bunch of spaces with .exe at the end. Unless you are running a very high rez monitor, the .exe will be off the right side of your screen.
 
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