Anyone tried this light?
- Thread starter Packhorse
- Start date
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
No, but it looks kinda nice.
It's a bit big for what it is,though, and there's something wrong with the specs. The XP-E has a max current of 1A, and all but the worst bins should be able to provide 200 lm at that current. But at 1A, the burn time should be 3-4 hours, not the specified 1.5 hours.
It's a bit big for what it is,though, and there's something wrong with the specs. The XP-E has a max current of 1A, and all but the worst bins should be able to provide 200 lm at that current. But at 1A, the burn time should be 3-4 hours, not the specified 1.5 hours.
wquiles
Flashaholic
+1
Nice to see more "factory" lights with a magnetic switch. Shows lots of promise. That is assuming the build quality is there and that it does keep water out ;)
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Got mine in the mail today. It's everything I expected, and then some.
I went on e-bay and found it for $50 USD, free shipping. I got the whole package. I was afraid I was only going to get the light, which would have been okay for the price. But I got the light with wrist strap, protected battery, charger, and a slick charger housing tube with Chinglish instructions printed on it. No instruction manual. Oh, and one spare o-ring.
At first blush it seems well (though inexpensively) made, works well and produces a very nice beam, exactly as expected, fairly tight hotspot with substantial spill and sharp cutoff at edge of spill. The crenellations on the tailcap allow it to stand up with the wriststrap attached by what's hopefully a stainless split ring, but there are some sharp corners there, which I will probably file smoother.
After first inspection, I'm very hopeful that this will be a good host for an XM-L upgrade, with custom driver board and Ahorton aspheric lens. If not, it looks like a nice primary/backup light for my needs, though I'd probably still want a brighter primary for daytime use.
Now for the bad news. The o-ring and thread area was fairly contaminated with debris. I don't know if it arrived that way, but after I played with it a little, I noticed that one of the O-rings had a large cut in it that extended nearly from one sealing surface to the other. Since this is not where the most wear occurs during use, I think it must have arrived this way. It probably wouldn't have caused a leak but I replaced it anyway, with the one supplied spare.
The alloy seems pretty soft. I put several scratches on the ID of the tailcap just trying to measure the ID with my calipers. The wall of the tailcap over the O-rings is pretty thin at 0.030". This may lead to durability issues in a hard environment. I'm hoping but not hopeful that this won't become an issue for me. The claim of HA-III is total fabrication.
I plan to dive the light this weekend, then force off the front end and see what I can do for upgrades.
I went on e-bay and found it for $50 USD, free shipping. I got the whole package. I was afraid I was only going to get the light, which would have been okay for the price. But I got the light with wrist strap, protected battery, charger, and a slick charger housing tube with Chinglish instructions printed on it. No instruction manual. Oh, and one spare o-ring.
At first blush it seems well (though inexpensively) made, works well and produces a very nice beam, exactly as expected, fairly tight hotspot with substantial spill and sharp cutoff at edge of spill. The crenellations on the tailcap allow it to stand up with the wriststrap attached by what's hopefully a stainless split ring, but there are some sharp corners there, which I will probably file smoother.
After first inspection, I'm very hopeful that this will be a good host for an XM-L upgrade, with custom driver board and Ahorton aspheric lens. If not, it looks like a nice primary/backup light for my needs, though I'd probably still want a brighter primary for daytime use.
Now for the bad news. The o-ring and thread area was fairly contaminated with debris. I don't know if it arrived that way, but after I played with it a little, I noticed that one of the O-rings had a large cut in it that extended nearly from one sealing surface to the other. Since this is not where the most wear occurs during use, I think it must have arrived this way. It probably wouldn't have caused a leak but I replaced it anyway, with the one supplied spare.
The alloy seems pretty soft. I put several scratches on the ID of the tailcap just trying to measure the ID with my calipers. The wall of the tailcap over the O-rings is pretty thin at 0.030". This may lead to durability issues in a hard environment. I'm hoping but not hopeful that this won't become an issue for me. The claim of HA-III is total fabrication.
I plan to dive the light this weekend, then force off the front end and see what I can do for upgrades.
interesting DIWdiver.
can you post some of your measurements so we can see what we can come up with for a mod? seems like a nice host for an XML with fresnel lens.
What driver would you choose for an XML on a single li-ion battery?
Johan
can you post some of your measurements so we can see what we can come up with for a mod? seems like a nice host for an XML with fresnel lens.
What driver would you choose for an XML on a single li-ion battery?
Johan
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yes, I'll post some measurements and hopefully some photos next week.
If there's not enough room for an Ahorton aspheric, the Fresnel aspheric may be a good alternative. I think length is more likely a limitation than diameter. Darn, I can't find the link to the aspheric Fresnel lenses... Help?
If I mod it, I will most likely build a custom linear driver board with micropower hall sensors. Since the light is already marked with off and three brightness levels, I'd probably maintain that. My previous build is an XM-L, Ahorton, 26650, linear driver and piezo sensor glued into the tailcap for switching. It was also focusable. I was very happy with the beam shape and intensity, but the focusing mechanism seized up on the second dive (haven't diagnosed that yet, as it means cutting open the light) and I haven't got the piezo to work very satisfactorily, hence my interest in this light. Modding it will hopefully be a lot less work than a new total scratch-build.
The driver would draw no more than 50 uA when off, which would discharge the 4000 mA-H battery in somewhat over 9 years.
If there's not enough room for an Ahorton aspheric, the Fresnel aspheric may be a good alternative. I think length is more likely a limitation than diameter. Darn, I can't find the link to the aspheric Fresnel lenses... Help?
If I mod it, I will most likely build a custom linear driver board with micropower hall sensors. Since the light is already marked with off and three brightness levels, I'd probably maintain that. My previous build is an XM-L, Ahorton, 26650, linear driver and piezo sensor glued into the tailcap for switching. It was also focusable. I was very happy with the beam shape and intensity, but the focusing mechanism seized up on the second dive (haven't diagnosed that yet, as it means cutting open the light) and I haven't got the piezo to work very satisfactorily, hence my interest in this light. Modding it will hopefully be a lot less work than a new total scratch-build.
The driver would draw no more than 50 uA when off, which would discharge the 4000 mA-H battery in somewhat over 9 years.
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Oops. The 'slick' battery charger housing won't work at all, in fact it can't work as delivered. The negative side (screw on cap) is missing the spring to connect the battery to the cap. Put the whole thing together and the battery slides back and forth inside, about 1/8". Think Maglight with the tailspring missing.
Also, I didn't mention before but the heatshrink battery sleeve has two big gouges in it, and it is cracked open between the battery and the protection board.
And the silicone O-rings (very soft, but probably okay for the specified depth limits) are stretched about 50%, way too much for even static seals. They are definitely not the correct size.
Also, I didn't mention before but the heatshrink battery sleeve has two big gouges in it, and it is cracked open between the battery and the protection board.
And the silicone O-rings (very soft, but probably okay for the specified depth limits) are stretched about 50%, way too much for even static seals. They are definitely not the correct size.
check my signature ;-)
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
:ohgeez:Doh!
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Light (sans battery) rode in my pocket on a dive to the U-853 this weekend. Max Depth was 117 Ft. I did 5 min of hang between 10 and 20 Ft. (I think this is one of the most likely times for a leak). It came out dry, so I got it most of the rest of the way open and will post some measurements and pics soon. Hopefully.
My assessment is that it wouldn't be a bad backup light as delivered, but if my life depended on my light, I would choose something else. I'd also advise that before counting much on it that it be torn down, cleaned, threads inspected and cleaned up as necessary, and have all the O-rings replaced. You might keep the one behind the lens and the one that provides friction on the magnet ring.
The light was shipped with double 23mm OD x 2mm thick silicone O-rings on the tailcap. After measuring the gland size, these do not appear to be the appropriate size rings. In fact, a standard (in the US at least) -024 o-ring which is nominally 1-1/4 OD and 1/16 thick (but really 0.070" thick) appears to be an ideal fit. I might have this size on hand from previous projects, but if not I will get nitrile -024s before diving again with this light.
I've got the light apart now...
The junction between the body and head also has two O-rings, and the threads had locker on them, so I had to use a strap wrench to open it. Fortunately the flats on the body provided a nice place to put it in the vise, and a little padding prevented any damage to the finish. The O-rings are 26mm OD x 2mm, despite the gland being smaller diameter than those on the tailcap. Perhaps the rings were installed in the wrong places. It looks like a standard -021 ring would be a very suitable replacement. Yeah! But I do not have this on hand. Boo!
The magnet ring is captured between the body and head and holds a single stack of 2 neodymium magnets, each 5mm dia x 1mm thick. I was quite surprised to see that the ring is actually two pieces, inner and outer. I couldn't tell until I pulled the magnets out and looked in the hole. Fortunately the dimensions would prevent the outer ring from falling off if the two become separated. Not that it looks like that is likely to happen. I mention the magnets because the magnets in my first full-custom dive light (DL1) have degraded quite a lot over several years. Despite being fully nickel plated, they have rusted, partly disintegrated, and lost a lot of strength. I tried to replace them before the U-boat trip, but they expand when they corrode, and so won't come out of the ring, and they haven't yet disintegrated enough to easily dig them out.
Friction on the ring is provided by a 30mm OD x 1.5mm o-ring, the same one as behind the lens. There isn't an ASA standard size that's comparable, so it's probably easiest to use the metric sizes, if they ever need to be replaced. I wouldn't replace either of mine unless it became necessary. However, the friction ring will be exposed to debris from the water, especially iron from wrecks, which will be attracted to the nearby magnet, so it may need more frequent replacement.
I worry that the magnet ring may get jammed by sand, bits of iron attracted by the magnet (yes, this DOES happen on wrecks), etc. Sand (I think) quickly jammed the focusing head on my second full-custom dive light (DL2), by jamming between the smooth ID and OD of the head and body on the water side of the O-rings. DL1 has a magnet ring (DL2 uses a piezo switch), and I've had to clean it out during a dive. Fortunately I had the accidental foresight to cut the ring into two half-circles and hold the two halves onto the body using an o-ring like a rubber band. I did this so the body wouldn't have to separate at that point to install the magnet ring. It has the advantage that the ring can now be removed, cleaned, and re-installed during a dive, and I have had to do this several times. Getting sand out of it only takes a few seconds. A single-piece ring can't do this, so if it gets jammed, it's jammed for the duration of the dive. I'll keep you posted over the summer as to what happens.
The lens is 1.160 x 0.075" glass, with an o-ring behind it, in a nice groove to keep it in place. The retaining ring which screws into the bezel in front of the lens could stand to be bored out a little. It's not much of an issue with the stock reflector, as the ID is the same on both parts. But if using an aspheric, either standard or Fresnel, the added room could let out a little more light. I'd think about boring it from the current 0.904" to about 1.025"
The emitter is on a slightly undersized 16mm round aluminum 'star'. I can't tell if a full 16mm round would fit in the space or not. The star is labeled XP-E ZL 16. I doubt it's really an XP-E, though it looks like one. There is significant debris on the dome of the LED. The solder paste used to attach the LED to the star was applied in excess, and has squeezed out and formed a large number of solder balls which are loosely attached to the board by the solder flux residue. Cleaning after assembly would remove this, but they didn't bother. Also, the very thin fiberglass laminate on top of the LED's ceramic substrate has been damaged and fibers are frayed. It looks like this happened after assembly, as there's a big scratch on the star along the same line. Sounds like some pretty horrific assembly practices.
Now, off to take some pictures.
My assessment is that it wouldn't be a bad backup light as delivered, but if my life depended on my light, I would choose something else. I'd also advise that before counting much on it that it be torn down, cleaned, threads inspected and cleaned up as necessary, and have all the O-rings replaced. You might keep the one behind the lens and the one that provides friction on the magnet ring.
The light was shipped with double 23mm OD x 2mm thick silicone O-rings on the tailcap. After measuring the gland size, these do not appear to be the appropriate size rings. In fact, a standard (in the US at least) -024 o-ring which is nominally 1-1/4 OD and 1/16 thick (but really 0.070" thick) appears to be an ideal fit. I might have this size on hand from previous projects, but if not I will get nitrile -024s before diving again with this light.
I've got the light apart now...
The junction between the body and head also has two O-rings, and the threads had locker on them, so I had to use a strap wrench to open it. Fortunately the flats on the body provided a nice place to put it in the vise, and a little padding prevented any damage to the finish. The O-rings are 26mm OD x 2mm, despite the gland being smaller diameter than those on the tailcap. Perhaps the rings were installed in the wrong places. It looks like a standard -021 ring would be a very suitable replacement. Yeah! But I do not have this on hand. Boo!
The magnet ring is captured between the body and head and holds a single stack of 2 neodymium magnets, each 5mm dia x 1mm thick. I was quite surprised to see that the ring is actually two pieces, inner and outer. I couldn't tell until I pulled the magnets out and looked in the hole. Fortunately the dimensions would prevent the outer ring from falling off if the two become separated. Not that it looks like that is likely to happen. I mention the magnets because the magnets in my first full-custom dive light (DL1) have degraded quite a lot over several years. Despite being fully nickel plated, they have rusted, partly disintegrated, and lost a lot of strength. I tried to replace them before the U-boat trip, but they expand when they corrode, and so won't come out of the ring, and they haven't yet disintegrated enough to easily dig them out.
Friction on the ring is provided by a 30mm OD x 1.5mm o-ring, the same one as behind the lens. There isn't an ASA standard size that's comparable, so it's probably easiest to use the metric sizes, if they ever need to be replaced. I wouldn't replace either of mine unless it became necessary. However, the friction ring will be exposed to debris from the water, especially iron from wrecks, which will be attracted to the nearby magnet, so it may need more frequent replacement.
I worry that the magnet ring may get jammed by sand, bits of iron attracted by the magnet (yes, this DOES happen on wrecks), etc. Sand (I think) quickly jammed the focusing head on my second full-custom dive light (DL2), by jamming between the smooth ID and OD of the head and body on the water side of the O-rings. DL1 has a magnet ring (DL2 uses a piezo switch), and I've had to clean it out during a dive. Fortunately I had the accidental foresight to cut the ring into two half-circles and hold the two halves onto the body using an o-ring like a rubber band. I did this so the body wouldn't have to separate at that point to install the magnet ring. It has the advantage that the ring can now be removed, cleaned, and re-installed during a dive, and I have had to do this several times. Getting sand out of it only takes a few seconds. A single-piece ring can't do this, so if it gets jammed, it's jammed for the duration of the dive. I'll keep you posted over the summer as to what happens.
The lens is 1.160 x 0.075" glass, with an o-ring behind it, in a nice groove to keep it in place. The retaining ring which screws into the bezel in front of the lens could stand to be bored out a little. It's not much of an issue with the stock reflector, as the ID is the same on both parts. But if using an aspheric, either standard or Fresnel, the added room could let out a little more light. I'd think about boring it from the current 0.904" to about 1.025"
The emitter is on a slightly undersized 16mm round aluminum 'star'. I can't tell if a full 16mm round would fit in the space or not. The star is labeled XP-E ZL 16. I doubt it's really an XP-E, though it looks like one. There is significant debris on the dome of the LED. The solder paste used to attach the LED to the star was applied in excess, and has squeezed out and formed a large number of solder balls which are loosely attached to the board by the solder flux residue. Cleaning after assembly would remove this, but they didn't bother. Also, the very thin fiberglass laminate on top of the LED's ceramic substrate has been damaged and fibers are frayed. It looks like this happened after assembly, as there's a big scratch on the star along the same line. Sounds like some pretty horrific assembly practices.
Now, off to take some pictures.
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DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Okay, I have a bunch of pics, cropped and ready to post. Still trying to figure out how to post them from Dropbox. I was using Picasa, but what a PITA. I know it is rated well, but I can't seem to get the hang of it. Maybe I'm too old:candle:.
In the meantime, I've verified that the Ahorton lens won't work in this host, at least not without a lot of work. The lens would fit in the front if you removed most of the flange from the lens, but you'd also have to bore out most of the threads where the pill mounts (screwed in from the front side of the head), and remove most of the threaded (front) part of the pill. Then you'd have to bore out the pill to allow the LED to sit further back, to allow for proper focus. Just too much to do. I think I'll try jspeybro's Fresnel lens, and just use it as is if that doesn't work.
In the meantime, I've verified that the Ahorton lens won't work in this host, at least not without a lot of work. The lens would fit in the front if you removed most of the flange from the lens, but you'd also have to bore out most of the threads where the pill mounts (screwed in from the front side of the head), and remove most of the threaded (front) part of the pill. Then you'd have to bore out the pill to allow the LED to sit further back, to allow for proper focus. Just too much to do. I think I'll try jspeybro's Fresnel lens, and just use it as is if that doesn't work.
I suppose if you just go to the photo in picasa and post a link here to the image, this could work. if you rightclick on the image, you can copy the URL of the photo and use that, but make sure the size is below 800px.
Johan
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Thanks, but that's the easy part. Getting pics onto Picasa in the first place is where I have to figure it out again every time. I stumble through, cursing the non-intuitive interface, and eventually end up with what I want.
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Made some current/voltage measurements on the pill.
First though, I discovered that there are five modes, despite there being only four marked (including off). Between off and high, there's a hidden mode where the LED flashes once briefly, then stays off. This mode is probably an accident, and worse than useless because the light is off but there is a 1.3-1.7 mA load on the battery. I'll call this the 'leaky' mode.
Anyway, here's the data, supply current (mA) at various voltages:
So it looks like you get pretty good regulation for the first half of the battery life (2, 4, or 10 hours in various modes) followed by a gradual decline. I didn't measure it, but LED current must be just about 1A on high, possibly a little higher.
I opened the pill up, and it has a little switching regulator in it. The bad news is they bored the back side of the pill for the switcher, leaving about 1/8" (3mm) thickness where the LED sits. I need to bore out the front side so the LED can sit a few mm further back for the Fresnel lens to focus properly. Looks like I'd have to bore it out, epoxy a new piece in, then trim that down. Or maybe make a whole new pill. Ugh.
First though, I discovered that there are five modes, despite there being only four marked (including off). Between off and high, there's a hidden mode where the LED flashes once briefly, then stays off. This mode is probably an accident, and worse than useless because the light is off but there is a 1.3-1.7 mA load on the battery. I'll call this the 'leaky' mode.
Anyway, here's the data, supply current (mA) at various voltages:
Code:
Voltage 4.00 3.85 3.70 3.40 3.00 2.70
High 927 972 948 625 244 44
Med 485 495 423 280 105 17
Low 196 180 151 100 38 8
Leaky 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.7 1.5 1.3
Off 0.02 0.03 0.03 0.03 0.02 0.02So it looks like you get pretty good regulation for the first half of the battery life (2, 4, or 10 hours in various modes) followed by a gradual decline. I didn't measure it, but LED current must be just about 1A on high, possibly a little higher.
I opened the pill up, and it has a little switching regulator in it. The bad news is they bored the back side of the pill for the switcher, leaving about 1/8" (3mm) thickness where the LED sits. I need to bore out the front side so the LED can sit a few mm further back for the Fresnel lens to focus properly. Looks like I'd have to bore it out, epoxy a new piece in, then trim that down. Or maybe make a whole new pill. Ugh.
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DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Pics at last!!!
Here's a picture of the light as it arrived. OAL is just under 5-3/4" (145mm).
Here's what I saw when I removed the head. That's a black plastic insert screwed into the back side of the head. The spring-loaded button in the center is the battery positive, and is slightly recessed for reverse-polarity protection. There's no positive stop for where it screws in. It stopped when it hit the longest lead sticking out the back of the PCB on the pill.
Here's the head with the bezel and lens and magnet ring removed. Note the double silicone O-rings. Good thing, because you can see a large gouge in the lower ring.
Undoubtedly this is what caused the big gouge. This is the front end of the battery tube where the head screws in.
Here's the back side of the bezel. You can see that it's ID is smaller than necessary. I might bore it out a bit to let out a little more light, but not sure I'll bother. The ID is 0.906" (23mm) and it looks like I'll be using jspeybro's 25mm lens. He promised me they'd be in tomorrow's mail.
Looking into the front of the head with guts removed. The first (unanodized) set of threads is where the pill screws in. The second set is where the plastic piece screws in from the back.
Pill, reflector and + contact.
Front of the pill with reflector removed. I've also removed the plastic separator that allows the back of the reflector to press the star into the pill. Notice the flat spot on the solder bump where the red wire is soldered. I think this is all that holds the star down.
Battery charger tube with very interesting instructions.
Okay, that's it for now. If anyone wants specific measurements, please ask. I have the board removed from the pill and can take pics of that too.
I've pointed out a lot of it's flaws, but overall I'm pretty happy with what I got for my money. I would highly recommend it be fully torn down, inspected, and re-assembled before diving, so I wouldn't recommend it for someone who can't or doesn't want to do that. It's just unfortunate that it's going to be a little more difficult mod than I'd hoped.
Don
Here's a picture of the light as it arrived. OAL is just under 5-3/4" (145mm).
Here's what I saw when I removed the head. That's a black plastic insert screwed into the back side of the head. The spring-loaded button in the center is the battery positive, and is slightly recessed for reverse-polarity protection. There's no positive stop for where it screws in. It stopped when it hit the longest lead sticking out the back of the PCB on the pill.
Here's the head with the bezel and lens and magnet ring removed. Note the double silicone O-rings. Good thing, because you can see a large gouge in the lower ring.
Undoubtedly this is what caused the big gouge. This is the front end of the battery tube where the head screws in.
Here's the back side of the bezel. You can see that it's ID is smaller than necessary. I might bore it out a bit to let out a little more light, but not sure I'll bother. The ID is 0.906" (23mm) and it looks like I'll be using jspeybro's 25mm lens. He promised me they'd be in tomorrow's mail.
Looking into the front of the head with guts removed. The first (unanodized) set of threads is where the pill screws in. The second set is where the plastic piece screws in from the back.
Pill, reflector and + contact.
Front of the pill with reflector removed. I've also removed the plastic separator that allows the back of the reflector to press the star into the pill. Notice the flat spot on the solder bump where the red wire is soldered. I think this is all that holds the star down.
Battery charger tube with very interesting instructions.
Okay, that's it for now. If anyone wants specific measurements, please ask. I have the board removed from the pill and can take pics of that too.
I've pointed out a lot of it's flaws, but overall I'm pretty happy with what I got for my money. I would highly recommend it be fully torn down, inspected, and re-assembled before diving, so I wouldn't recommend it for someone who can't or doesn't want to do that. It's just unfortunate that it's going to be a little more difficult mod than I'd hoped.
Don
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Yes, the tailcap unscrews, that's how you change the battery. You aren't normally supposed to unscrew the head. The threads are different. It would be one tiny light head, as the head is less than 2" long and only 1.3" diameter! Without the cable gland, it would be about the size of a C battery.
DIWdiver
Flashlight Enthusiast
Update:
I've taken the modified light on about 15 dives, and I'm very happy with it. I did realize the O-rings I bought are a bit big. I think I should have had -020 and -023 instead of -021 and -024. Still the ones I got do work, it's just a bit finicky to get the thing assembled without cutting the rings. And the size of the metric ring is normally specified as ID x thickness, so it should be 27 x 1.5mm. They are not available at many of the cheap on-line distributors, but I did eventually find them.
Here's a link to the build thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...4-MJ-852-mod-with-XM-L2&p=4272494#post4272494
I've taken the modified light on about 15 dives, and I'm very happy with it. I did realize the O-rings I bought are a bit big. I think I should have had -020 and -023 instead of -021 and -024. Still the ones I got do work, it's just a bit finicky to get the thing assembled without cutting the rings. And the size of the metric ring is normally specified as ID x thickness, so it should be 27 x 1.5mm. They are not available at many of the cheap on-line distributors, but I did eventually find them.
Here's a link to the build thread: http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb...4-MJ-852-mod-with-XM-L2&p=4272494#post4272494
I brought 8 of these (852)in a wholesale $3000 order from magic shine..did a basic clean up and o-ring check...
All have flooded, have had the magnetic switches jam or for the sst-90 burn the leds, when used ONLY underwater.
JUNK
No warentee service....
All have flooded, have had the magnetic switches jam or for the sst-90 burn the leds, when used ONLY underwater.
JUNK
No warentee service....
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