Arc 4+ problem - help needed!

[HesNot]

I had some problems with my Arc4+ - particularly as the battery started to drain it would - with no movement or jarring - come on by itself. I thought it was a software problem and after a total reset it appeared to have gone back to normal. This light had functioned perfectly for months and several battery changes without trouble. Needing funds I sold it and the problem resurfaced so I gave a refund to the buyer and have carried it for a couple days. It ran fine again but then after a few days it came on by itself (again, with no movement or jarring - simply fired up at around level 7 and stayed on). I could only shut it down by doing a total reset, and then it would turn on with a press of the switch but then would not turn off - only after a couple presses. Then it might function fine for a period of time. However when it comes on by itself unless I notice it quickly it burns through a new battery pretty fast. This started haphazardly after I took it on a trip and pulled it out of my briefcase and noticed it was on. I believe this is a software issue as it appears to happen without any mechanical movement whatsoever. The switch itself - prior to this odd occurence - had worked flawlessly and still has a pretty clean feel. Obviously there is no shot at getting an upgrade in software from Arc at this point which might solve the problem (particularly as it seems to start off with a fresh cell fine and only exhibits this behavior when the cell starts to drain - albeit it doesn't appear to take too much drain before this starts to happen). It hasn't been exposed to any extreme conditions.

I love the functionality of the light but obviously can't keep putting super fresh cells in all the time and can't really rely on it at this point. Plus the readings for this particular serial number are pretty nice - 1.38 and 169 on the meter - and the tint is very nice and white - so I'd like to keep it running.

Anyone have any suggestions about what the problem could be or any ideas on how I might be able to fix it? Right now it is a very nicely finished paperweight.... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[ledy]

I strongly doubt the software has some problem because software tend to be determinate, meaning if you have it, most of us would have it too.

Make sure the gold plate in the head is clean and the four legs are not jaming the center. With batter in there, does the "click" sound clear and strong? Use a pencil to press the switch directly (eraser end) to see if there is something jaming it.

 

[EchoSierraTwo]

[ QUOTE ]
does the "click" sound clear and strong?

[/ QUOTE ] Ledy, does yours? Cause mine kinda has a click but it is a VERY faint and I do mean VERY faint click. I do not have any problems with my 4+ just wondering if it is suppose to be clear and strong as you put it.

 

[HesNot]

Ledy - I have pressed the switch with an eraser and it clicks - although I wouldn't describe it exactly as clear and strong - but does appear to have a "distinct" feel to it and like I said it worked great for some time. Not really clicky but still crisp. Mine is a relatively low serial number - 684 so I thought I'd avoided the dreaded switch problem. I thought maybe in my attempts to access the brightness levels (never have perfected the 10 click press sequence) I'd thrown it into options menu or otherwise messed up the software as it tried to interpret my lousy inputs (lots of multiple flashes as I missed the sequence).

Is there any way to do a real master reset that puts the thing back to original factory configuration just to see?

I'll play with the switch some more tonight - a note that it appears to happen whether it's an Energizer, Duracell (which I mostly used) or Surefire battery.

 

[JollyRoger]

If all else fails...and you'd still like to use it, you can just keep it slightly unscrewed when it's in your pocket or briefcase? Then tighten it back up to use it.

I know, I know...hardly a *fix*....

sorry to hear you're having problems!

 

[HesNot]

Maybe this is a switch issue (although I thought that was mostly a rev2 problem and mine was made January 2004 so I believe it is cleary a rev1) - something is pretty fishy with it no question. My switch was never clickie by comparison to many others but I've used it alot and perhaps the gold has gotten compressed onto the micro switch. The turning on randomly while simply sitting on the top of my dresser horizontally just seemed electronic, but perhaps it is a switch springiness thing - since it started some time after I'd been using it daily. I'm baffled but will take a look at it again tonight.

 

[TCG]

I have had similar failures on both my arc4 rev1 lights. Both early production. In my case the light turns itself on, and will not turn off. Removing the battery to reset the light sometimes works, but other times the light just comes back on solid and the switch feels dead.

The failures I have seen, seem to be moisture related. Its happened tree seperate times now, with two lights.

I'm of the opinion, that it is probably a flux problem on the boards that takes up moisture and reduces the resistance across the switch enough that the processor sees it as shorted.

In all cases, a half hour or 45 minutes in the oven at 150 degrees F has cured the problem.

If youf continue to have problems, bake the light.

 

[HesNot]

TCG - it sounds like you've had the exact same problem - particularly that the light comes on when lying perfectly still for a period of time... This problem did start surfacing after I returned from my trip to the beach. The Arc4+ was not my main nightime walking light but did travel around some with me while I was there. Plenty of moisture and humidity during that week. I may have even changed the battery while I was there as well come to think of it.

I'm assuming you only "baked" the top half of the light to preserve the rubber boot, etc.... correct?

I have a few silica dessicant packs as well - I wonder if a day or two in a sealed bag with those might work as well.

At this point I'll try most anything.

Thanks!

 

[ledy]

I like that "bake" solution, it's probably what it is. As to the reference to the sound of the click, mine sounds just a bit less than like when you clip your nail.

 

[TCG]

yeah, I only baked the head. baking the tail and battery doesn't sound like a good idea.

Baking at 150 F didn't seem to hurt a thing. The effects seemed to have lasted a few months. Before the oven treatment, it would act up a few hours after each rain storm.

 

[EchoSierraTwo]

Nail clipper, WOW! mine is almost silent. You have to put it to your ear practically. Hmmmmmm, makes me wonder if I am headed for trouble some time in the near or far future. Far I hope.

 

[AK]

FWIW, mine is almost slient too. Works just fine so far . . .

 

[EchoSierraTwo]

cool, glad to hear that i am not the only one or AK, could we be the only two? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif

 

[pianoman]

Arc 4+ #322.....never noticed any irregularity in the switch...but battery quality does matter...man this sounds like a bad quality control problem...but I would put more faith in Arc that there is a more simple reason for this stuff....

 

[koala]

Hello Hesnot,

This is your second thread regarding your ARC4+ battery drain problem. You must be very disappointed. If you are going to put your light in to the oven, I suggest that you try the silica packs first. Try to get new packs instead of old one as they expires. Use ALOT with the head unit in a consealed jar.

You could be having some switch problem, perhaps your tail switch is pushing too hard causing the switch to activate. Try rebuilding the tailcap with only the rubber boot, foam, aluminium cone and gold disc. Put a side the spring and aluminium ring with legs. This will reduce the pressure towards the switch and increase tactile feedback. Try and see if it works.

Also, verify thatyour switch is not crushed...

Disassemble your ARC4+, place the headunit on the table top with the light facing downwards.
Press the gold contact with your thumb.
The switch should click and it sounds softer than a mouse click.

The sound and tactile feel is dampen through the heavy mass of the battery and all the parts at the end of switch, sometimes it hard to hear/feel it when it's assembled.

 

[HDS_Systems]

HesNot,

Your problem is definitely not software related. The three most likely causes of your problem are - in order of likelihood:

1) a relatively low resistance across the switch
2) a poorly adjusted switch spring
3) a bad solder connection to a resistor in the button circuit

If something slightly conductive got underneath the switch - such as liquid flux during manufacture, it could attract enough moisture and become conductive enough to short out the switch. The switch circuit has a fairly high impedance so surface contamination could activate it. The fix would be to unsolder the Positive Contact Spring, unsolder the switch, clean everything real good and reassemble. The temporary fix of baking the head at 150 degrees F (65 degrees C) for half an hour or so will work but you must be very careful. Ovens do not have accurate thermal controls and it would be quite easy to exceed part specifications. Using a lower temperature such as 120 degrees F would be much safer. Also, don't use a gas oven since the burning gas introduces a lot of moisture into the oven.

#2 does not sound very likely from your description but is the easiest to fix. If the Positive Contact Spring is badly adjusted toward the compressed position, it will allow the switch to be activated without pressing on the button. However, this normally results in a mushy feeling switch. If you can hear a distinct click when you press the button, and another one when you release the button, this is not likely to be your problem. But just in case, there is a thread (by NewBie, if I remember correctly) that talks about how to properly adjust the Positive Contact Spring. Make sure the Positive Contact Spring is properly adjusted.

#3 is the least likely and impossible to fix. If the resistor in question has an intermittent connection or break, the switch will fail to work since the circuit will think that the switch is always pressed.

Hope that helps,

Henry.

 

[Christoph]

OT slightly
Henry it is nice of you to help out here with info and advice.Thanks
I had to make an adjustment on a friends arc 4 spring like that also.But his also had a problem with the length of the rev2 batty tube after being ground down it would bottom out the lip of the uper flare to the head and not make full contact with the ground ring on the pcb,but at the same time have too much pressure on the switch which caused it to come on full bright as if it saw a failed switch. Some times it would come on by it self like yours did.Adjusting the switch and building up the solder on the ground ring solved all the problems and it now has almost perfect feel.

Chris

 

[HesNot]

Thanks everyone for their input and suggestions! Last night I dissassembled the light and checked the gold contact in the head visually for signs of crushing - I've never dropped it on the switch and as expected it looked fine, then I pushed it with a pencil eraser - it makes a definite click (that I can't really hear when fully assembled).

I then disassembled the tailcap. My switch only has the boot, cone, ring with legs, spring and gold disc - no foam. The spring seemed a bit off center so I recentered and reassembled. It doesn't feel significantly different than before - relatively mushy but it had always worked.

Lastly I did 20 minutes in a 125 electric oven (lowest setting "keep warm" on my electric and I was also concerned about the heat) then cracked the door and let the whole thing cool off. Placed the cool head in a sealed bag with a few fresh silica packs and let it sit overnight.

This morning I loaded an OK 123 battery and I get primary, secondary and lowest setting but won't make full brightness (battery related I think). Thus far this morning it appears to be working OK - and given that it has been overcast and drizzly with about 90% humidity the past few days straight the conditions are such that it should malfunction if moisture is the problem. The switch feels a little more sensitive in that it seems to take a fairly quick press to make a click and anything longer is interpreted as a press.

It appears the best fix would be to disassemble the positive contact spring and the switch, clean and reassemble as noted by Henry (thank you for your insight - you obviously know these lights inside and out - literally) which is sadly well outside my capabilities.

I might try some of the switch adjustments as well. Has anyone tried the rubber grommet approach described on another thread (replacing everything but the cone with a small rubber grommet)?

 

[NewBie]

[ QUOTE ]
HDS_Systems said:
HesNot,

But just in case, there is a thread (by NewBie, if I remember correctly) that talks about how to properly adjust the Positive Contact Spring. Make sure the Positive Contact Spring is properly adjusted.

Henry.

[/ QUOTE ]


Here is one of the threads on it:

June switch fix

 

[HesNot]

Hmmm - well I let it sit for awhile this morning on my desk. Just picked it up and turned it on (listening closely for the definite click which I heard) and .... it stayed on (one of the malfunctions along with turning on by itself). Several more positive clicks and it would not turn off, then without input it turned off by itself. I then was able to turn it on and off several times, change levels, etc. and it worked OK. Then I tried it again a few minutes later - same result - came on and stayed on - despite listening carefully for the positive clicks on both press and release, then after around 15 seconds it finally responded to a click and turned off.

I've now fiddled with the positive contact spring which fit so closely in the "basket" that it was under pressure and would literally pop out - thinking perhaps on some less than perfect clicks the spring was popping out of place and keeping pressure on the switch. Bent the legs a bit to allow it to sit securely but not under pressure at the base. Reconnected and after two tries finally got a RFS sequence (the first time I connected it gave a very dim then a fairly bright light that would not go out). We'll see if this helps at all although I'm starting to think it may not be in the tailswitch and might be as Henry suggests a problem with the gold contact and micro switch.