Arc will no longer be guaranteeing cosmetics

[js]

[ QUOTE ]
Rotten Ron said:
Im glad js can afford to over look things normal people would not stand for. Ive done auto repair for 31 years. If your door or trunk dont line up, it will still close, but looks like crap when the pin stripes dont line up,etc. If Im buying a new car no way am I leaving a scratch in the bumper of my new car. If you scratch a fender it is not doomed to rust. Scratch thru ckearcoat it wont ruat, but looks like crap. Scratch thu clear and base coat and the primer coat,THEN it will rust. Take that "rub markon your bumper to a dealer(lets say a 2 inch scrape on the lower half of your bumper. Your car is a 99 ford escort(example),
.4hr, sand out rub mark, 1.3hr, paint lower bumper section(base color), .5hr per paint labor hr for clearcoat, .5 flex additive(this is a painted rubber bumper, not chrome), $50 paint and material=(@36 dollars per hr)/97.50 laborplus 50 in material, for a total of 147.20, plus tax. js might be able to blow 147.20 at the drop of a hat but alot of us cant, wont and shouldnt. Please excuse the hair, fisheye, and run, in the paint on your bumper, Im sure you wont mind. The car analogy was fine.That is my shops price, Betcha dealer will cost more.
Were almost all in agreement that the Ha will have some flaws. Lens scratchs, led tint, smudges, reflector scratches, hair and debris are the real concern......

Get real.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ron,

I think you might cut me a little slack. We can argue back and forth over such details ad nauseum, which is why I said a few posts above that I was "backing off" and "taking a breath". Forgive me, if I am ignorant of certain automotive areas, but I can't help but wonder if you READ what I wrote. I was talking about a PLASTIC covered bumper, like I have on my Subaru Legacy wagon. But, whatever, the point is that some things are important and others aren't.

I don't think you need to be cynical and sarcastic about me being able to overlook stuff that "normal" people can't aford to. What the ****ens is a "normal" person anyway? One who buys $200 pocket lights? Hardly. I, like everyone, can aford to overlook things that I don't feel are all that important. You and I obviously just disagree as to what is and is not important. I use one or the other of my Arcs everyday and they get scratches and marks over time. This doesn't bother me. YMMV.

 

[Rotten Ron]

I WAS estimating a rubber(plastic covered) bumper.

 

[Canuckle]

[ QUOTE ]
_Mike_ said:

Customer issues are between him and his customers and none of our business.

Mike


[/ QUOTE ]

And just who do you think his customers are, if not us (people on this board)?
You seem to be overlooking the simple fact that most, or all, of the people on this thread are his customers.

I've yet to own an Arc light, but the excellent service that Merri has shown, and the concensus on this board, does give me confidence in the track record of this company.

Peter has chosen to exist amongst us, his customers, to produce a class of product (EDC flashlight) that is, at any price, second to none. In doing so, he's made himself accessible, and even vulnerable, to what we feel.
A 'higher and mightier' flashlight manufacturer that makes the same change in business practice, but has chosen to isolate itself from its customers, might just wake up one morning to find most of them gone.

Peter does not need anyone coming to his defence.
Let his customers speak their mind. Leave them be.

 

[Canuckle]

[ QUOTE ]
_Mike_ said:

Give him a break, he has always treated us very, very well and I have no doubt he will continue to do that.


[/ QUOTE ]

Has anyone here expressed this sort of doubt? I think that the general feeling is that Peter is perfectly justified in making this decision (not that we can do anything if he wasn't). We're still human and want our opinions known.

[ QUOTE ]

_Mike_ also said:

<font color="red"> If you don't like his policies, don't get his lights. Yes, it's just that easy. </font>
Oh, better yet .... if you think you can do better, start your own company and make the "perfect" light yourself.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

You might want to ask Peter if he even appreciates a (somewhat dangerous) comment like this one. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[_mike_]

Canuckle,

You honestly think that if someone who is having a customer service issue should deal with Peter in a public forum such as CPF? You think that it's better to come on this forum and what ..... open it up for public debate on how Peter should run his company and set policies? To let people on this forum determine if something merits being exchanged? Don't you think that it is much more appropriate to handle customer service matters in private between Peter/Meri and their customer?

As far as letting his customers speak for themselves ..... I am a customer and I am speaking for myself and I am speaking my mind. Unlike you who is not a customers.

Oh yes, I am sure if Peter thinks I'm out of line he will let me know. I don't need you busting my chops on his behalf in that regard.

Mike

 

[chamenos]

i think peter should run his company the way he sees fit, and we should not take advantage of his amicability. same way a few individuals spoilt it for the rest of us by abusing peter's returns policy, we might shoot ourselves in the collective foot by abusing peter's candor on this forum. all IMHO of course /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

btw, well said js! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif

 

[Fastlane]

I'm a noob and don't have much experience dealing with the Arc company, but I certainly don't see many, if any, complaints here with their customer service track record.
If this forum didn't exist, there would just be a policy change made to cover the nuisance returns and we would read about it in the warranty. Maybe it's better that way when the announcement raised some doubts about the QC for many who would not have otherwise been concerned.

One observation I have not seen yet is when someone returns a 4+ for some trivial cosmetic issue, they get a replacement light from the limited production that could have gone to one of us who has not yet had their orders filled. When done several times for one order, it compounds the problem. It not only incurs additional shipping costs, it also restricts the cash flow from orders that are delayed in being processed.
Here's your refund, get back in line! Good policy.

 

[k4jdn]

A $180 "tool" that is only guaranteed to function properly. It looks like there is a serious lack of real competition in the edc market. The day another serious contender enters this market, cosmetics will be an issue and the price will go down. I own several LSL and LSH, AAA and AA Arcs and they are all great "tools" and they are all SERIOUSLY overpriced.

If you want it on Peter's terms, buy it. If you don't, pass on it.

 

[chamenos]

if peter was pricing his lights at the maximum price the market could bear, we won't be hearing all the complains about backorders not being filled. heck, there wouldn't even be backorders if the quantity demanded matched the quantity supplied! (see the arc4x for a case study) /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

the fact is, taking into consideration the various factors the niche products that arc manufactures faces, i'd say we're getting our arcs for a reasonable price; perhaps even at a bargain. the prices arcs are sold at might lessen the satisfaction we derive from the lights, but we all still want them just as bad, and i'd rather have my arc4 than not at all /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Gransee]

Thanks for all the posts made to this thread. I figured that people would be evenly divided on this issue. The point was to reset expectations for the sake of our sanity. We still are making the same lights, etc. Nothing has changed in that regard. In any endeavor; having a broad focus comes at the expense of excellence. Therefore, I must choose what is the most important aspect of our product. You can say that perfect technology, price, service and quality should be the norm and I appreciate the optimism. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I have yet to see a returned unit with a visible fingerprint or hair in it. One gentlemen thought he had a hair in the beam but it was the bond wires of the LED. And I will contine to take whatever time it takes to work through each one of these claims. Why not?

Another claimed he saw a fingerprint in the reflector. That may be, I haven't seen the unit or a photo. I do know that some of the reflectors have a gradient of texture in the aluminization from one side of the reflector to the other. This could look like a print I suppose. It didn't affect the beam. I have seen one (1) expecially bad case that did cause a slight shadow in the beam when held against a white target 1 inch away, I made it second even though the beam power and LED efficiency were excellent.

If you ever wonder about what kind of flashlight you are getting with Arc, just give me a call or come visit us. I think you will find that we try very hard to provide our customers the best possible value.

Peter

 

[this_is_nascar]

[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:

...clipped

If you ever wonder about what kind of flashlight you are getting with Arc, just give me a call or come visit us. I think you will find that we try very hard to provide our customers the best possible value.

Peter



[/ QUOTE ]

Peter, we'll always have a difference of opinions as it relates to whether or not comsmetics add/subtract to the quality of a light, however, you'll never ever hear me question or challenge this point above. No one tries the way you do. No one puts it out there the way you do. For that, I'm appreciative and it allows me to overlook things that otherwise may be not perfect to me. Oh, by the way, don't be shy in answering my E-Mail. I'm serious in what I'm asking.

 

[this_is_nascar]

... and to add with what other have said, I know that if I had any issues at all, you'd go far out of your way to resolve the issue.

 

[grift]

[ QUOTE ]
Sean said:
One of the reasons to pay extra for a premium was for fewer cosmetic defects in addition to a "better" emitter. Since cosmetics are no longer guarenteed, does that mean the price for premiums will drop to refect the change of policy?

Or will the old standards still be held, just not guaranteed?

[/ QUOTE ]

can you please adress Sean's question for us Peter? am i right in presuming that a premium will only be considered a premium due to its tint/output now, and that the cosmetics of a normal and premium run will be the same??

 

[Canuckle]

[ QUOTE ]
_Mike_ said:

Canuckle,

As far as letting his customers speak for themselves ..... I am a customer and I am speaking for myself and I am speaking my mind. Unlike you who is not a customers.


[/ QUOTE ]

By this, I must conclude that _Mike_ feels his opinion carries more weight than the opinions of those that have yet to buy an Arc light. I suppose this is for the forum members (and Peter) to decide.

BTW, my 2 Arcs are in the mail. I suppose that now makes me a customer.

[ QUOTE ]
_Mike_ also said:

Oh yes, I am sure if Peter thinks I'm out of line he will let me know. I don't need you busting my chops on his behalf in that regard.

Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Point taken. I'm sure Peter didn't think your comment did any damage. The quality and utility of the Arc lights will speak for itself.

***

In any case, Thank You Peter, for making the statement.
It is reassuring to new buyers (like myself) and long-time buyers (like _Mike_) that you are not changing the way Arc does business.

A vendor being up front and transparent, is all a customer can ask for.
<font color="#666666">Good prices help too.</font> /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Thanks.

 

[Gransee]

[ QUOTE ]
grift said:
can you please adress Sean's question for us Peter? am i right in presuming that a premium will only be considered a premium due to its tint/output now, and that the cosmetics of a normal and premium run will be the same??

[/ QUOTE ]

The Premiums will still be better looking cosmetically on average. But that is not the main reason they are Premiums. The main reason is their beam, run time, tint quality, brightness, etc.

Peter

 

[Saaby]

[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
Thanks for all the posts made to this thread. I figured that people would be evenly divided on this issue. The point was to reset expectations for the sake of our sanity. We still are making the same lights, etc....
SNIP
...If you ever wonder about what kind of flashlight you are getting with Arc, just give me a call or come visit us. I think you will find that we try very hard to provide our customers the best possible value.

Peter



[/ QUOTE ]

That's all I needed to hear. Welll...almost

[ QUOTE ]
I'm told that the newest Arc AAA's fixed the problem by just saying "Arc" near the head

[/ QUOTE ]

True? I could settle for a Natural colored AAA I think if it said Arc near the head. At least until the 5.11 black model comes out /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grinser2.gif

 

[JonSidneyB]

I see again the Peter has demonstarted what an up front guy he is. He is one of the best.

 

[red_robby]

OK,
I received my order of 3 ARC seconds yesterday, 2 LS's + ARC4
and took them out of their Ziploc bags...
one of the LS's came with a visibly USED battery pack!, the pack is
scratched to all hell and the kroll boot worn(very soft)and torn in two spots.
I've purchased at least 7 arc seconds in the past, they all came to me in a new
condition( aside from anodizing flaws, small scratches, etc.), this is the first
time something like this showed up...
is this part of the new policy ? I really hope not.
I've never returned ANY of the arc purchases in the past, and I don't want to start
now.
AM I WRONG HERE ?
is a USED battery pack with a torn switch boot considered a second ?
please tell me it was a mistake...

 

[_mike_]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
_Mike_ said:

Canuckle,

As far as letting his customers speak for themselves ..... I am a customer and I am speaking for myself and I am speaking my mind. Unlike you who is not a customers.


[/ QUOTE ]

By this, I must conclude that _Mike_ feels his opinion carries more weight than the opinions of those that have yet to buy an Arc light. I suppose this is for the forum members (and Peter) to decide.



[/ QUOTE ]

Canuckle,

You should not be making any conclusions about what I or anyone else meant. If that's what I had meant, I would have stated it so that it would be crystal clear. What I said in a previous post was that I am a customer, am speaking for myself, and am speaking my mind. Get your quotes and interpretation right son.

If you want to continue this diatribe, look in my profile and send me an e-mail or ICQ me. I'm not going to waste the bandwidth bantering back and forth with you here on CPF.

Mike

 

[SUREFARC]

I agree with this_is_nascar and Paulr. I can live with HA mismatch but the HA color inconsistency(on one part) is pretty annoying which occured on my AAA Premium. I paid the extra money but it did not meet my expectation. And in the mean, I do understand Peter's situation.