Arc4+ Rev2 Switch Problems
- Thread starter bobisculous
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Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
I would rather you sent the entire light. Hopefully, we will able to get it right on your pack.
Peter
Peter
[ QUOTE ]
Gransee said:
OK, I spent a good part of the weekend and today brainstorming on the switch. We tested several fixes today. The one common denominator is that no single fix worked on all cases. A good operation was possible, but it took some swapping out of parts until we got the right feel.
We also found that the plunger cushion that we sent out in the last batch migrated in some cases. This cause a good switch to become a bad switch when it arrived at it's new home.
We can send you some parts so you can try fixing the problem on your own but I really think now it would better if you sent the light back to us. We have a half dozen or so tweaks we can do to the light. We also now test them with both duracell and surefire batteries.
What really helped us learn about this switch was to see quite a few of them operate in the field.
Again, I am now recommending you send us the entire light back so we can rebuild it. If you want it optomized for a brand other than Duracell/Surefire, please include a couple of those cells with the package.
Thanks guys.
Peter Gransee
[/ QUOTE ]
Are all of the tweaks for the switch?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
I guess that I'll be sending it back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Any idea of turnaround time?
E-MAIL sent.
Thanks Peter
mut
Gransee said:
OK, I spent a good part of the weekend and today brainstorming on the switch. We tested several fixes today. The one common denominator is that no single fix worked on all cases. A good operation was possible, but it took some swapping out of parts until we got the right feel.
We also found that the plunger cushion that we sent out in the last batch migrated in some cases. This cause a good switch to become a bad switch when it arrived at it's new home.
We can send you some parts so you can try fixing the problem on your own but I really think now it would better if you sent the light back to us. We have a half dozen or so tweaks we can do to the light. We also now test them with both duracell and surefire batteries.
What really helped us learn about this switch was to see quite a few of them operate in the field.
Again, I am now recommending you send us the entire light back so we can rebuild it. If you want it optomized for a brand other than Duracell/Surefire, please include a couple of those cells with the package.
Thanks guys.
Peter Gransee
[/ QUOTE ]
Are all of the tweaks for the switch?
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
I guess that I'll be sending it back. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Any idea of turnaround time?
E-MAIL sent.
Thanks Peter
mut
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
The tweaks are only for the switch. Turn around time is about 1 week.
Peter
Peter
EmissionLine
Newly Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
- Messages
- 69
Is there any reason to send it back if I know I'm going to buy the modified tail cap and 2x123 extension? Will they incorporate the fixes you've created for the existing rev2 switch?
Ty_Bower
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
McGizmo said:
Ty_Bower,
In the case of the Arc4, the switch is not a power switch but merely an input signal to the circuit that is always "on". I believe that part of the issues relate to using the battery to mechanically activate the switch while not interfering with the batteries closed circuit contact conditions. Poorly stated to be sure but the point I'm trying to make is that tail mounting the switch would require two leads which might be both independent of comonality with the Vin+ or Vin-. If the mechanics of such a feat were simple or even remotely attainable, we would see all kinds of cool light set ups!
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think you put it rather well. Yes, I am aware the switch is not a "power" switch. Rather, it is a signal input to the smart chip in the light.
And yes, I agree, the difficulties are due to trying to use the battery itself to mechanically activate a switch at the other end. That's why I suggested if there were a way to put the microswitch in the tail, instead of the head, it would make it more reliable.
Of course, as you pointed out, getting the necessary number of electrical traces to the back is not easy. You've got one, which is the case of the light itself. To put the switch in the rear, you need at least one more. I best idea I've had so far is to construct the case out of two separate tubes, one inside of each other, separated by an insulating sleeve. Of couse, this adds to manufacturing costs. Even worse, if they somehow get misaligned, you've got a bigger problem than the one that exists now.
Peter's mechanically activated switch is rather clever. I'm just trying to brainstorm alternatives. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
McGizmo said:
Ty_Bower,
In the case of the Arc4, the switch is not a power switch but merely an input signal to the circuit that is always "on". I believe that part of the issues relate to using the battery to mechanically activate the switch while not interfering with the batteries closed circuit contact conditions. Poorly stated to be sure but the point I'm trying to make is that tail mounting the switch would require two leads which might be both independent of comonality with the Vin+ or Vin-. If the mechanics of such a feat were simple or even remotely attainable, we would see all kinds of cool light set ups!
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I think you put it rather well. Yes, I am aware the switch is not a "power" switch. Rather, it is a signal input to the smart chip in the light.
And yes, I agree, the difficulties are due to trying to use the battery itself to mechanically activate a switch at the other end. That's why I suggested if there were a way to put the microswitch in the tail, instead of the head, it would make it more reliable.
Of course, as you pointed out, getting the necessary number of electrical traces to the back is not easy. You've got one, which is the case of the light itself. To put the switch in the rear, you need at least one more. I best idea I've had so far is to construct the case out of two separate tubes, one inside of each other, separated by an insulating sleeve. Of couse, this adds to manufacturing costs. Even worse, if they somehow get misaligned, you've got a bigger problem than the one that exists now.
Peter's mechanically activated switch is rather clever. I'm just trying to brainstorm alternatives. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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Turd_Ferguson
Enlightened
- Joined
- Jan 15, 2004
- Messages
- 458
I think the switch is clever, too, unfortunately you don't have uniform battery lengths (and probably diameters). The trick is to make the battery uniform. Maybe that could be accomplished by finding the biggest 123 out there and design a jacket which will adjust the smaller batteries to the biggest one. How to make it adjustable would be tricky but with threads adjustments are infinite. Just a thought. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/icon3.gif
indenial
Enlightened
....light returned....hoping the fix will work...... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/popcorn.gif
Hmmh, wonder about this hickup with things getting worse from rev 1 to rev2 instead of improving /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Is there somebody new at work not as familiar with the matters as the guy (Henry) who designed the rev 1 ?
Enquiring minds would like to know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
TIA for any comment
Klaus
Is there somebody new at work not as familiar with the matters as the guy (Henry) who designed the rev 1 ?
Enquiring minds would like to know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
TIA for any comment
Klaus
Ty_Bower
Flashlight Enthusiast
OK, here's my second idea. Putting the switch in the tail has the problem of connecting it to the circuitry in the head. Why not put the circuitry in the tail, too? (OK, so you have to completely re-design the whole thing, that's why not... /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif )
But seriously, if you had the switch and the circuit all in the tail, the battery next, and just the Luxeon emitter in the head, it would be fairly easy to work out the wiring details. Keep a spring in the battery train, and it won't ever care if your particular brand of battery is a little longer or shorter than the rest.
But seriously, if you had the switch and the circuit all in the tail, the battery next, and just the Luxeon emitter in the head, it would be fairly easy to work out the wiring details. Keep a spring in the battery train, and it won't ever care if your particular brand of battery is a little longer or shorter than the rest.
The circuit needs to be in the head to monitor the temperature of the LED. Putting the control electronics in the tail would require another set of electronics in the head for monitoring purposes. This would up the price by a substantial margin.
As the winner of the Arc4+ I am hoping that all of the problems are resolved by the time my light arrives. Since the light is hand picked and a special order type product it should have all the problems resolved.
I anxiously await the arrival of my light.
As the winner of the Arc4+ I am hoping that all of the problems are resolved by the time my light arrives. Since the light is hand picked and a special order type product it should have all the problems resolved.
I anxiously await the arrival of my light.
asdalton
Flashlight Enthusiast
Mine is in the mail, too. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif I was disappointed to part with it, especially since it does work with the aluminum foil fix. But it's better to make sure that the fix is done right.
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
Klaus said:
Hmmh, wonder about this hickup with things getting worse from rev 1 to rev2 instead of improving /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Is there somebody new at work not as familiar with the matters as the guy (Henry) who designed the rev 1 ?
Enquiring minds would like to know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
TIA for any comment
Klaus
[/ QUOTE ]
Klaus, I explained the other day here that the rev2 was supposed to fix the rev1. Henry was one of the contract engineers on both revisions. He no longer works for Arc (unrelated to his performance). We wish him well. This problem with the switch really bothers me and it has gone on for far too long. As the original designer of the LS series, I am now taking a more hands on approach to also fixing the engineering flaws with the switch.
I have put together a short term and long term fix. The short term is to apply a host of tweaks to each switch on a case by case basis for the best action. We also added new tests to our QC procedures to detect this problem more reliably. The long term fix is to re-design and re-engineer the switching system.
Peter
Klaus said:
Hmmh, wonder about this hickup with things getting worse from rev 1 to rev2 instead of improving /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thinking.gif
Is there somebody new at work not as familiar with the matters as the guy (Henry) who designed the rev 1 ?
Enquiring minds would like to know /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/poke2.gif
TIA for any comment
Klaus
[/ QUOTE ]
Klaus, I explained the other day here that the rev2 was supposed to fix the rev1. Henry was one of the contract engineers on both revisions. He no longer works for Arc (unrelated to his performance). We wish him well. This problem with the switch really bothers me and it has gone on for far too long. As the original designer of the LS series, I am now taking a more hands on approach to also fixing the engineering flaws with the switch.
I have put together a short term and long term fix. The short term is to apply a host of tweaks to each switch on a case by case basis for the best action. We also added new tests to our QC procedures to detect this problem more reliably. The long term fix is to re-design and re-engineer the switching system.
Peter
asdalton
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
geek said:
For clarification's sake, is it fair to say that those who have already purchased the 4+ will in fact only be offered the "short term fix" of the "host of tweaks"?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that "short term" refers to Arc's manufacturing method, not the nature of the fix (quality, durability, etc.) that will be applied to the returned Arc4 lights. In the long term, Arc will have to redesign its Arc4 switch in a manner that doesn't require each flashlight to be adjusted individually.
geek said:
For clarification's sake, is it fair to say that those who have already purchased the 4+ will in fact only be offered the "short term fix" of the "host of tweaks"?
[/ QUOTE ]
I think that "short term" refers to Arc's manufacturing method, not the nature of the fix (quality, durability, etc.) that will be applied to the returned Arc4 lights. In the long term, Arc will have to redesign its Arc4 switch in a manner that doesn't require each flashlight to be adjusted individually.
Gransee
Flashlight Enthusiast
Andrew is correct. Any time we fix something, we want it to last as long as possible! The tweaks should last quite a long time. The reason for the long term solution is so we don't have to spend so much time rebuilding each light.
Peter
Peter
cthomasian
Newly Enlightened
Hello all again,
Soooo, I just got my Arc4+ Rev2 from the FedEx guy. Hmmm, all this talk about switch problems, I think, has tainted me. My light seems to work OK. Is the switch perfect, not really but it works both with the duracell and surefire batteries. I did need to tighten the switch cap a little extra for the surefire battery, and it was alittle harder to use with but not so much that it was unusable. I did notice a very very minor flicker at times but you really have to be looking for it. Last but not least the HA finish is not nearly as good as on my LS. But I am keeping it, I like it. I'll wait a little bit and see how folks feel about their repaired lights. As far as brightness goes it's nice. I'll probably buy another LS (a premium) next month. Again I think Arc and Peter are doing everything they can to make us happy and I think they will. I hope that Arc makes it in this business because they care about their customers and they have innovative products and ideas. Peter, keep up the good work!
Arc4+ Rev2 #1365
Soooo, I just got my Arc4+ Rev2 from the FedEx guy. Hmmm, all this talk about switch problems, I think, has tainted me. My light seems to work OK. Is the switch perfect, not really but it works both with the duracell and surefire batteries. I did need to tighten the switch cap a little extra for the surefire battery, and it was alittle harder to use with but not so much that it was unusable. I did notice a very very minor flicker at times but you really have to be looking for it. Last but not least the HA finish is not nearly as good as on my LS. But I am keeping it, I like it. I'll wait a little bit and see how folks feel about their repaired lights. As far as brightness goes it's nice. I'll probably buy another LS (a premium) next month. Again I think Arc and Peter are doing everything they can to make us happy and I think they will. I hope that Arc makes it in this business because they care about their customers and they have innovative products and ideas. Peter, keep up the good work!
Arc4+ Rev2 #1365
NewBie
*Retired*
[ QUOTE ]
cthomasian said:
Hello all again,
...
I did need to tighten the switch cap a little extra for the surefire battery, and it was alittle harder to use with but not so much that it was unusable. I did notice a very very minor flicker at times but you really have to be looking for it. Last but not least the HA finish is not nearly as good as on my LS.
...
Arc4+ Rev2 #1365
[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with the Hard Anodize finish?
cthomasian said:
Hello all again,
...
I did need to tighten the switch cap a little extra for the surefire battery, and it was alittle harder to use with but not so much that it was unusable. I did notice a very very minor flicker at times but you really have to be looking for it. Last but not least the HA finish is not nearly as good as on my LS.
...
Arc4+ Rev2 #1365
[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with the Hard Anodize finish?
wptski
Flashlight Enthusiast
[ QUOTE ]
NewBie said:
[ QUOTE ]
cthomasian said:
Hello all again,
...
I did need to tighten the switch cap a little extra for the surefire battery, and it was alittle harder to use with but not so much that it was unusable. I did notice a very very minor flicker at times but you really have to be looking for it. Last but not least the HA finish is not nearly as good as on my LS.
...
Arc4+ Rev2 #1365
[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with the Hard Anodize finish?
[/ QUOTE ]
If it's like mine there isn't much HA at the bottom of the knurling grooves and few chunks missing on the tops too on n the tailcap. A few specks on the head and barrel. A few spots on the bezel nut also.
Too bad that the HA isn't as good as my REV1Arc4+.
NewBie said:
[ QUOTE ]
cthomasian said:
Hello all again,
...
I did need to tighten the switch cap a little extra for the surefire battery, and it was alittle harder to use with but not so much that it was unusable. I did notice a very very minor flicker at times but you really have to be looking for it. Last but not least the HA finish is not nearly as good as on my LS.
...
Arc4+ Rev2 #1365
[/ QUOTE ]
Whats wrong with the Hard Anodize finish?
[/ QUOTE ]
If it's like mine there isn't much HA at the bottom of the knurling grooves and few chunks missing on the tops too on n the tailcap. A few specks on the head and barrel. A few spots on the bezel nut also.
Too bad that the HA isn't as good as my REV1Arc4+.
I got my ARC4+ rev2 and it had the hard to turn on tailswitch problem. WOW! I am so impressed with this. My first pack with the rev2 was not working very well at all. The new pack is perfect. I just wanted to post here and let everyone know that Peter and all at ARC still have the best as far as product and customer servic.
Thanks Peter and all at ARC.
Thanks Peter and all at ARC.
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